New Park51 Imam on Homosexuality and Apostasy

[AllieBaba]

Ravi defends anything if she thinks as a result of that support, Christians will be targeted.

 

[Ravi]

Babble thinks freedom of religion should be suspended because of things that happen in other countries.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, I don't. I believe in freedom of religion, which is why I'm appalled that any American would support a murderous whack job who calls for the murder of anyone who leaves a religion and talks about another one...

 

[Ravi]

No, I don't. I believe in freedom of religion, which is why I'm appalled that any American would support a murderous whack job who calls for the murder of anyone who leaves a religion and talks about another one...

Yeah, me, too...but this guy didn't do that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes, he did.

 

[AllieBaba]

My bad..he said they should be imprisoned.

Still a violation of freedom of religion.

 

[Ravi]

Nope, he didn't say that either.

Babble, when did you stop thinking for yourself and decide to believe WorldNutDaily?

 

[AllieBaba]

It's the NYPost, not World Net.

"
Adhami also notes that if a Muslim leaves the faith and "preaches their views, they're jailed."

"The only thing you do not have the right to do is spread this conviction, lest you, quote unquote, 'pollute' others," he said when asked to give his personal opinion about apostates."


Read more: Outrageous teachings by new GZ mosque big - NYPOST.com

I'm always astounded at your tenacity when it comes to lying and misrepresenting, Ravi. You're so blatant about it.

 

[Ravi]

It originally came from WorldNutDaily. I posted what he actually said and the video of him saying it. That you don't even take a look at them means you've stopped thinking for yourself.

 

[AllieBaba]

Here ya go, Ravi; his own words:

"The Biblical codes stipulate that the “one who doubts or ridicules one word of the Torah— or of the rabbinical authors — is a ‘heretic’ in the fullest sense, an infidel ... and there is no hope for him.” The laws concerning such an unbeliever are very strict: “he may be killed directly,” or as Maimonides, the 13th century Andalucian rabbi and philosopher, advised regarding navigating the abeyance of apostasy law in his era, “his death may be caused indirectly.”

Islamic law (shari‘a) likewise stipulated killing in cases of established public apostasy. Though there is little literature on the emergence and application of apostasy law in the early periods of Muslim history, its actual application usually depended upon whether its declaration was public or private. Within the Islamic state, what minorities — religious and otherwise — did in their private lives was left to their discretion, even if it may have been technically termed “deviant” or against Islamic teaching.
Shari‘a, like all religious law, governs rites of worship and codes of individual and communal conduct and ethics. Contrary to stereotypical notions of religion, the earthly realm within shari‘a is in fact pragmatically understood to be essentially secular."

Guest Voices: Religions Oppressive? Look to the Sources - On Faith at washingtonpost.com

He essentially says that Islam support the execution of infidels, then goes on to lie about how tolerant Bagdad is of other religions.

What a great guy to support.

 

[Ravi]

Apparently you're afraid to view the video yourself.

 

[Valerie]

It originally came from WorldNutDaily. I posted what he actually said and the video of him saying it. That you don't even take a look at them means you've stopped thinking for yourself.

I always find it funny when people criticize the source when the content is something indisputable like that...A speech, a quote, a video is put on the table regardless of source, it just is what it is. (Yo Paulie!)





Point being, looks like Ravi was wondering if the OP misleading because it's taken out of context...SO she simply provided the context.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Read the Quran and the Bible, all of us non-believers would be dead if people did what their Gods told them to do.

If people did what those books tell them they "should" do our population would decrease by about 99% and the only people left would be a handful of soldiers who are the same religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The new imam at the Ground Zero mosque and cultural center believes people who are gay were probably abused as children and that people who leave Islam and preach a new religion should be jailed.

Abdallah Adhami's remarks on homosexuals, religious freedom and other topics have brought renewed criticism of the proposed community center and mosque near the World Trade Center site, which purports to be an inclusive organization.

Jordan Sekulow, a lawyer at the Pat Robertson-founded American Center for Law and Justice in Washington, questioned why the mosque project, called Park51, would choose a leader who advocates retribution for those who leave the faith.

"To be in the United States of America and to tell former Muslims to 'keep your mouth shut' is against the Constitution," said Sekulow, whose organization is suing to stop Park51 from being built.

Outrageous teachings by new GZ mosque big - NYPOST.com

Building bridges?

Isn't it obvious? They are moderate Muslims who want to build a bridge between radical Muslims and the the rest of the world. It is obviously more humane to imprison non believers than to kill them, and it goves them more chances to convert. I am sure he would have no problem with freeing them from prison and finding them a good Muslim girl to marry once they convert.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just from reading your link I see that neither claim is quite true...but whatever, he sounds just like a Christian fundie. I'm really surprised most of the rightwingers on this board haven't become Muslims.

Which part is, as you put it, not quite true? He has said that most homosexuals are victims of trauma, except for a small percentage that are born that way and are required to fight it. He has also said that the Qur'an teaches it is fine to leave Islam, but if you preach against it you should be jailed. I fail to see anything in the OP that is not quite what he said unless you are claiming that that small percentage thing he threw in indicates something else.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Turns out he was discussing apostasy historically and then went on to give his views about it...as I suspected, taken totally out of context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ku_HAgqBZk&feature=player_embedded

Interesting.

I read that very carefully and, unlike you, can find nothing where he says that people should not be jailed for leaving Islam and preaching against it. He points out that, if he chose to leave Islam privately he would like to think that he is still covered by grace, even thought that is strictly a Christian concept. He then goes on to falsely claim that every religion before Islam called for the death of anyone who became an apostate.

He then builds on that false premise and paints Islam as a more tolerant religion than anything in history, and discusses the theological debate about how to deal with apostasy in Islam. He rejects the temporal argument out of hand, without explaining what it is he is rejecting, and argues that a proper interpretation of the Quran calls for imprisoning any apostate that attempts to pollute others by preaching against Islam.

He then blathers on a while, and essentially refuses to answer the question about Sharia law and how we, presumably Muslims, should deal with apostasy. Yet, somehow, that translates to you as other people completely misrepresenting him, taking quotes out of context, and generally insulting Islam, a religion of peace and tolerance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I tell you what...find a Christian fundamentalist church being built that people are protesting against and I will defend the fundies right to build it.

Try Baghdad.

They don't just protest it. They kick down the door and AK-47 their asses. This has become a common occurrence in Iraq.

Now defend the folks that were murdered. I won't hold my breath waiting.

I'm an American, not an Iraqi...and while I find that sort of behavior revolting it is immaterial to the discussion of what goes on in America.

Really?

Do you think we were wrong to attack Germany and eradicate the Third Reich from the face of the Earth? After all, they were not doing anything to Americans, they were just killing their own citizens. It had nothing to do with us.

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

 

[chanel]

The Park51 are now claiming that he is not directly involved in the project and is only an advisor. If his words were merely "taken out of context" one would think they would come up with a better rebuttal. Maybe they should hire ravi to do their PR. Lol

 

[chanel]

"When a religious leader of his standing opens up his mouth and spews this kind of ignorance and hateful statements, it does put his greater judgment into question," said Fred Sainz, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay-rights group.

Read more: Outrageous teachings by new GZ mosque big - NYPOST.com

I wonder if this guy subscribes to the "WorldNutDaily". (ha ha chanel made a funny)

 

[bodecea]

The new imam at the Ground Zero mosque and cultural center believes people who are gay were probably abused as children and that people who leave Islam and preach a new religion should be jailed.

Abdallah Adhami's remarks on homosexuals, religious freedom and other topics have brought renewed criticism of the proposed community center and mosque near the World Trade Center site, which purports to be an inclusive organization.

Jordan Sekulow, a lawyer at the Pat Robertson-founded American Center for Law and Justice in Washington, questioned why the mosque project, called Park51, would choose a leader who advocates retribution for those who leave the faith.

"To be in the United States of America and to tell former Muslims to 'keep your mouth shut' is against the Constitution," said Sekulow, whose organization is suing to stop Park51 from being built.

Outrageous teachings by new GZ mosque big - NYPOST.com

Building bridges?

No more or less than many Christian ministers/priests.

I myself have supported the idea of putting an upscale Gay Bar/restaurant near the Moslem Center.....make that neighborhood more fabulous...and increase property values too.