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Syrenn is correct, do you believe the Medicare Advantage crowd is getting a better deal on cost? Hell no, Obamacare does not address the problem. Where is the fixed income crowd going to get the difference? This is why the truth is very easy to understand, you will push (actually shove) the ones who can't afford the difference into Medicaid, is that your idea of a solution?
No one has claimed there is some easy solution, but this sure as hell is going in the wrong direction....
We drove our company to record profits this year in the home building industry thru through and honest evaluation of cost, but I know, you believe the Feds are going to do this with our Tax Dollars.....
Of course you completely miss the point. The insurance companies that pay for the added coverage fixed income people get from the Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized FROM the general fund of Medicare. In other words, I don't have Advantage, and my $96.00 a month premium helps pay for some other granny's hearing aids. Using Syrenn's complaint in my example, why should I pay for someone else's hearing aids? If an elderly person on a fixed income can't afford increased premiums under Advantage because they will no longer be subsidized, they will still not lose any of the benefits provided by standard Medicare coverage.
Medicare wasn't set up to fill the needs of the physical defects that begin to happen to everyone as they get older: Eyes, ears, teeth. If it had, the program would have been bankrupt in less than five years. If I want new eyeglasses, I have to pay for them myself.
Medicare does not pay for hearing aids, but Medicaid does.....
Did you miss this too?
mmm nice projection. You should get together with RDD. He wants em to beg first though.That seems to be working just fine here. Its called working, making money and paying your bills for goods and service's rendered.
Maybe the ones who want to live off of public funds and health care should move to canada and england.
I know! How about we just shoot them? I'm sure that's one of your closeted wishes, you being such a patriotic capitalist and all.
You lousy little shit.
You were not being sarcastic...you were being a fucking ass hole dick and using information about his life's situation against him. Pathetic.
How can someone who is PAYING for their medical care fall into the lazy loser category? He does not fit EITHER category.
He is not mooching off of any system..and yet you mock him for being to poor to afford health insurgence. The very people you say you championing.
How is his willingness to pay his bills and NOT wanting others to pay for him make him an idiot?
He does not see any irony nor do i. What i do see you is mocking him for his situation in life in such an underhanded way that it is disgusting its pathetic.
And you should be very ashamed.
Well it's not my fault you fail to see the hypocrisy in his viewpoint. Nor is it my fault that you are too ashamed to just come out and say that people who can't afford healthcare shouldn't receive it. But it's ok, I can read between the lines. Have a good weekend!
You mean like the hypocrisy of attacking those who are being responsible even though they are poor? Having utter contempt for those you proclaim to want to help? You sit here and claim to be 'mocking ignorance' and being sarcastic when it is plain to see for everyone that you really are a hateful prick.
How about the sheer arrogance then of playing games trying to drive home a political point off of my own personal situation, you fuck. You want to score political points at my expense but when confronted with the reality of your own desired solution's abject economic failure that YOU EVEN ADMIT TO you suddenly blank out and duck the whole issue going back to attack responsible people like myself, and imply we're costing you money!
Not only that, you disregard all the factors affecting healthcare that are GOVERNMENT SPAWNED as if ignoring them will take them out of the equation. you claim to want to discuss the issue of health care but you dont' want to do it honestly. I've tossed out in multiple threads many things that would truly help the poor while REDUCING the size of government. Do you even HAVE any solutions that don't involve government growing? I doubt it.
No. Instead you want us to be 'grateful' for your magnanimous contribution to forestalling their death while hating them for needing saving. Oh you poor put upon bastard. How about instead you work to reduce the costs that make it all so difficult with out government interfering and controlling every aspect of their lives? Because in all reality, as long as your bed is feathered, you couldn't give a flying fuck.
You're scum, and thank you for illustrating it once again to the entire board.
Prick.
Maggie, the issue between RDD and myself has been going on for two or three threads now. At one point I used my own personal situation to illustrate how much of a problem government was in health care. RDD then seized upon that opportunity to be intellectually disingenuous, personally demeaning and an all around prick about my life. I made the mistake of putting it out there, and being the opportunistic fuck that he is, he attacked me on it.
You were not being sarcastic...you were being a fucking ass hole dick and using information about his life's situation against him. Pathetic.
How can someone who is PAYING for their medical care fall into the lazy loser category? He does not fit EITHER category.
He is not mooching off of any system..and yet you mock him for being to poor to afford health insurgence. The very people you say you championing.
How is his willingness to pay his bills and NOT wanting others to pay for him make him an idiot?
He does not see any irony nor do i. What i do see you is mocking him for his situation in life in such an underhanded way that it is disgusting its pathetic.
And you should be very ashamed.
You completely misunderstood that entire exchange. Also, I don't see you lambasting BF for his nonstop insults.
Now, if he had been at least civil back then, I'd be treating him better now. If he was intellectually honest, we'd actually be discussing the issue more rather than playing fuckaround fuckaround games. But since he cannot discuss economic realities or real world application because he knows it destroys his philosophically pure arguments that don't work in the real world, he won't.
So until such time that RDD is either capable or willing to participate in an adult conversation and actually bring reason to the table, (not to mention a shitload of apologies for his past attacks) all he's going to get from me are counter attacks and ridicule as well.
How do you know it is not going to cost more?
It is simple business. Increase the demand for goods and services and don't raise the cost to cover said goods and service's...you go bankrupt.
In case you didn't catch it Syrenn, she didn't provide you with a . . internet link . . to back her statement. The only FACTS you will find is in the form a YouTube video of Nancy Pelosi talking about "choice and competition". Which only goes to prove, hear a lie long enough and people ( like MaggieMay ) are likely to believe it.
Of course the closest government system we have is in the state of Massachusetts. There is very little doubt the state is facing a lot of higher costs to contend with, to include Medicaid, and I have included plenty of "sources" including the New York Times. Last I checked the New York Times is supported by the left for many of THEIR sources, so I don't see any "bias" there. Contrary to what Maggie and RDD would have you to believe, you simply can not ignore the increasing cost burden Massachusetts must bare. They who much rather hold their heads in the clouds, and come up with an extensive Santa Clause type of "wish list", on the kind of coverage everyone ought to have. However, you must also face the "REALITY" of what such coverage will cost. Simply putting the truth about "cost" on the shelf, and saying it's the Federal Government's problem, is simply being irresponsible. This is the true cost of what government care brings, from a state that HAS taken the initiative:
Addressing the issue regarding the INCREASE COSTS of Health Care brought onto the state
Illegals Drive Up Healthcare Costs for Taxpayers in Massachusetts
Skyrocketing Massachusetts health costs could foreshadow high price of ObamaCare | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment ( which sites the Boston Globe as it's source )
including two articles from left leaning newspapers:
ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/health/policy/16mass.html?_r=1
Increase the amount of good and services that are given away for free, the money to pay for it must come from somewhere. That money comes from the ones who are paying. The cost to those who pay will increase to cover the free good and services.
I think you need to find a good website that explains it all to you, preferably one that doesn't have a bias and presents the facts in a negative way.
In other words "bias" articles from the left that only goes into the beautiful 'picturesque' of what Health Care looks like.
I'll try to find a good one that you can trust. Basically, the cost of the program requiring subsidies will ultimately be paid for by reduced costs (and waste) in other programs. You apparently don't know anything about the projections and forecasts, so I'll try to help you out but I can't get back to this until tomorrow.
How has Massachusetts been successful in reducing the state's Health Care costs, or are we only dealing with hypotheticals? Do you have a link for these PROVEN "reduction" in health care costs?
...the percentage of the GDP spent on healthcare jumped to 17.3 percent from 16.2 percent in 2008-the largest one-year increase since 1960. At the current rate of growth, healthcare costs are predicted to nearly double to $4.5 trillion in 2019. At that point, they will account for 19.3 percent-almost a fifth-of our GDP.
Before delving into the details, Id like to point out that if, theres one factor (aside from public ignorance) that is preventing healthcare reformers from restraining this cost growth, it is the very size of the healthcare sector. The bigger it grows, and the more people and capital it employs, the harder it is for anybody or any institution to rein it in. Its like the sorcerers apprentice, only the sorcerer is nowhere in sight.
Sorry you dont like the real life application of obamacare.
I have no problem waiting with the "peasants" as you call them. I actually like the peasants as opposed to gentry. If the peasants expect and demand the same care i do. I expect the peasants to paying the same thing that i do.
I don't know where you got that impression from what I said. There are PARTS of Obamacare that I don't think are workable. But rejection of the entire program is not an option.
There are many parts of this bill that i like as well. There are many parts that are absolutely needed. But you cant pick the parts you like and don't like. You have to take it as a whole.
So since this little thing got slammed down our throats and got stuck, its getting the Heimlich now.
The main part that is not workable is the finances. It is an unsustainable system on a much grander scale then the one we have now.
So again, nothing changes with obamacare except it will cost us more. It is the same shell game only different more expensive shells.
You have it a bit wrong. I dont say "why should i pay for everyone one else"
I am saying if you want something pay for it. If you want to be in obamacare...then EVERYONE pay for into it. No exemptions. No free ride for anyone.
Bingo...and obamacare will be bankrupt too. They are making provisions that they cannot pay for.
Well since you're still ignorant of what the bill actually contains, this is the best analysis (short of reading the entire bill). All you're doing is projecting based on what other opinionators are saying, and they don't know for a fact what the fiscal benefits will be either.
Obamacare Title I: Qualified Health Plans and Abortion Coverage
Or, for an expanded explanation (including the history of its passage) in lay terms, you can peruse the Wikipedia site, and if you question its veracity, click on the myriad hyperlinks therein for their sources:
Health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Affordable health care implies that EVERYONE pays for it.
Again. So long as there are exemptions...some that do not pay into the system, it is the SAME thing we have now. It is the same shell game just different more expensive shell.
mmm nice projection. You should get together with RDD. He wants em to beg first though.I know! How about we just shoot them? I'm sure that's one of your closeted wishes, you being such a patriotic capitalist and all.
Seems to me it's people like you and Syrenn who are doing all the projecting. If my comment above sounded snarky, it's because Syrenn is acting like some higher class snot who thinks people beneath her are unimportant. I've known the kind all my life. I've also known some who were shocked to find the dreaded day come when they, too, had to avail themselves of government social umbrellas. They wound up eating a lot of crow instead of steak and lobster.
Well since you're still ignorant of what the bill actually contains, this is the best analysis (short of reading the entire bill). All you're doing is projecting based on what other opinionators are saying, and they don't know for a fact what the fiscal benefits will be either.
Obamacare Title I: Qualified Health Plans and Abortion Coverage
Or, for an expanded explanation (including the history of its passage) in lay terms, you can peruse the Wikipedia site, and if you question its veracity, click on the myriad hyperlinks therein for their sources:
Health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Affordable health care implies that EVERYONE pays for it.
Again. So long as there are exemptions...some that do not pay into the system, it is the SAME thing we have now. It is the same shell game just different more expensive shell.
Well I see you zipped through those two links in record time!! And you're sounding like a broken record with the shell game nonsense. You need a new mantra.
Of course you completely miss the point. The insurance companies that pay for the added coverage fixed income people get from the Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized FROM the general fund of Medicare. In other words, I don't have Advantage, and my $96.00 a month premium helps pay for some other granny's hearing aids. Using Syrenn's complaint in my example, why should I pay for someone else's hearing aids? If an elderly person on a fixed income can't afford increased premiums under Advantage because they will no longer be subsidized, they will still not lose any of the benefits provided by standard Medicare coverage.
Medicare wasn't set up to fill the needs of the physical defects that begin to happen to everyone as they get older: Eyes, ears, teeth. If it had, the program would have been bankrupt in less than five years. If I want new eyeglasses, I have to pay for them myself.
Medicare does not pay for hearing aids, but Medicaid does.....
Did you miss this too?
I didn't miss anything because I already know that!! It's you who just doesn't get it.
The Medicare ADVANTAGE policies, which are totally separate from standard Medicare coverage, DO pay for hearing aids.
Advantage does not pay for hearing aids either....
Medicaid on the other hand does pay for them....
Advantage does not pay for hearing aids either....
That depends on which MA plan you select; some do cover hearing aids.
Medicaid on the other hand does pay for them....
That's a coverage decision that's made at the state program level.
Which Advantage plan covers hearing aids?
Maggie, the issue between RDD and myself has been going on for two or three threads now. At one point I used my own personal situation to illustrate how much of a problem government was in health care. RDD then seized upon that opportunity to be intellectually disingenuous, personally demeaning and an all around prick about my life. I made the mistake of putting it out there, and being the opportunistic fuck that he is, he attacked me on it.
You were not being sarcastic...you were being a fucking ass hole dick and using information about his life's situation against him. Pathetic.
How can someone who is PAYING for their medical care fall into the lazy loser category? He does not fit EITHER category.
He is not mooching off of any system..and yet you mock him for being to poor to afford health insurgence. The very people you say you championing.
How is his willingness to pay his bills and NOT wanting others to pay for him make him an idiot?
He does not see any irony nor do i. What i do see you is mocking him for his situation in life in such an underhanded way that it is disgusting its pathetic.
And you should be very ashamed.
You completely misunderstood that entire exchange. Also, I don't see you lambasting BF for his nonstop insults.
Now, if he had been at least civil back then, I'd be treating him better now. If he was intellectually honest, we'd actually be discussing the issue more rather than playing fuckaround fuckaround games. But since he cannot discuss economic realities or real world application because he knows it destroys his philosophically pure arguments that don't work in the real world, he won't.
So until such time that RDD is either capable or willing to participate in an adult conversation and actually bring reason to the table, (not to mention a shitload of apologies for his past attacks) all he's going to get from me are counter attacks and ridicule as well.
mmm nice projection. You should get together with RDD. He wants em to beg first though.
Seems to me it's people like you and Syrenn who are doing all the projecting. If my comment above sounded snarky, it's because Syrenn is acting like some higher class snot who thinks people beneath her are unimportant. I've known the kind all my life. I've also known some who were shocked to find the dreaded day come when they, too, had to avail themselves of government social umbrellas. They wound up eating a lot of crow instead of steak and lobster.
Funny that. How is saying everyone should pay into the proposed "affordable" for everyone health care plan projecting anything? Why is saying needing a sustainable system snanky? That is real life.
I too have known all kinds of people in my life who feel that their life is one huge entitlement. The somehow i owe them more because they have less. I have also know people who don't care how much things cost others so long as they are not the ones paying for it. Steak and lobster taste great, especially when someone else is picking up the bill.
BF, question for you. Do you as someone who is poor and uninsured fell that i make myself superior to you in any way? Do you feel that i think you are unimportant?
maggiemae said:it's because Syrenn is acting like some higher class snot who thinks people beneath her are unimportant
Syrenn said:BF, question for you. Do you as someone who is poor and uninsured fell that i make myself superior to you in any way? Do you feel that i think you are unimportant?
RDD said:Now, being that you are a conservative, I found it funny that I could use the very talking points I so commonly hear from your fellow conservatives against you.
RDD said:Just to illustrate how dumb that point of view is. I even made reference that these would be right wing talking points as evidenced here. <----Click me
RDD said:<right wing talking point>LOL, freeloader. Please work harder and stop being a leech on society. You could have insurance if you weren't such a deadbeat and made some actual good decisions with you life.</right wing talking point>
RDD said:So don't pretend like you're open to discussion when you avoid my questions like the plague and have called me dozens of different names.
RDD said:So you see I actually do have A LOT of compassion for people who have fallen on hard times and I think I've evidenced that plenty through my willingness to support peoples health insurance through my tax subsidies. Something, I'll point out that NONE of you will be willing to come out and say you'd support.
Oh SO understanding! Giving me compliments from your left hand all the while. Such magnanimous bloke you are!
Never made fun of my current financial straits? No... you haven't. MOCKED them, yes. Accused me of contributing to your increased cost of living and equating me unfairly by proxy to emergency room clogging illegal aliens that get care and run out on the bill just because I do payment to be a responsible adult and NOT have to affect others.
RDD said:Now, being that you are a conservative, I found it funny that I could use the very talking points I so commonly hear from your fellow conservatives against you.
Oy... I'm a bit confused. Every conservative I've seen post here has agreed with me and had ZERO problems with the idea of payments or anything I've been doing. YOU have been playing 'what if' games that are pointless for the discussion at hand, instead attempting to score philosophically bankrupt political points, while debunking your own theories as you go.
To illustrate my point that you don't even understand what conservatives have said, you spouted this shit:
RDD said:Just to illustrate how dumb that point of view is. I even made reference that these would be right wing talking points as evidenced here. <----Click me
Which linked to a statement of your belief what we conservatives have been saying like this:
RDD said:So don't pretend like you're open to discussion when you avoid my questions like the plague and have called me dozens of different names.
And you earned them all with your personal attacks on me and attempt to avoid real questions on real issues by throwing in hypotheticals. THAT is why I refuse to answer them. You tried to start an intellectually dishonest discussion on my real life situation, and therefore, I'm not going to dignify your hypothetical situation with a response. Note, most people are not playing with your hypothetical situations either. Not to mention you debunked your own desired result.
RDD said:So you see I actually do have A LOT of compassion for people who have fallen on hard times and I think I've evidenced that plenty through my willingness to support peoples health insurance through my tax subsidies. Something, I'll point out that NONE of you will be willing to come out and say you'd support.
Unless they're conservative too. Not to mention if they prefer to find non-governmental solutions. Then they deserve to be shut out. That you've proven time and time again. Let's face it. Your professed compassion is underwhelming.
Thanks for proving my point of hatred for those poorer than you because they dare disagree with you and prove you wrong.Oh SO understanding! Giving me compliments from your left hand all the while. Such magnanimous bloke you are!
Never made fun of my current financial straits? No... you haven't. MOCKED them, yes. Accused me of contributing to your increased cost of living and equating me unfairly by proxy to emergency room clogging illegal aliens that get care and run out on the bill just because I do payment to be a responsible adult and NOT have to affect others.
RDD said:Now, being that you are a conservative, I found it funny that I could use the very talking points I so commonly hear from your fellow conservatives against you.
Oy... I'm a bit confused. Every conservative I've seen post here has agreed with me and had ZERO problems with the idea of payments or anything I've been doing. YOU have been playing 'what if' games that are pointless for the discussion at hand, instead attempting to score philosophically bankrupt political points, while debunking your own theories as you go.
To illustrate my point that you don't even understand what conservatives have said, you spouted this shit:
Which linked to a statement of your belief what we conservatives have been saying like this:
And you earned them all with your personal attacks on me and attempt to avoid real questions on real issues by throwing in hypotheticals. THAT is why I refuse to answer them. You tried to start an intellectually dishonest discussion on my real life situation, and therefore, I'm not going to dignify your hypothetical situation with a response. Note, most people are not playing with your hypothetical situations either. Not to mention you debunked your own desired result.
RDD said:So you see I actually do have A LOT of compassion for people who have fallen on hard times and I think I've evidenced that plenty through my willingness to support peoples health insurance through my tax subsidies. Something, I'll point out that NONE of you will be willing to come out and say you'd support.
Unless they're conservative too. Not to mention if they prefer to find non-governmental solutions. Then they deserve to be shut out. That you've proven time and time again. Let's face it. Your professed compassion is underwhelming.
And not surprisingly EVERYTHING I said went right over your head. I'm guessing the reason you're broke isn't because you're unlucky, it's simply because you're flat out dumb. Good luck with life.
I said extreme far left not liberal dems. And there is also extreme far right.
This bill will cost to much in the future just like all large government programs.
Does this mean we can't go to Washington, DC with torches and pitchforks and run the liberal Democrats out of the country? What about our demands for fried chicken on Sundays??????
