No problem with Stalking

[JoeBlam]

It's not a moot point since nobody who's walking really worries about being watched if the person doing the watching isn't following them. People can look at someone through a living room window, or a car window, or while sitting on a porch, and nobody is going to get worked up about it if they're either stationary or headed in the opposite direction. It's only when they continue to follow the person that their perfectly natural sense of concern for their personal safety is roused. It's the whole survival instinct thing. Obviously, at this point in time, it's quite obvious that Martin had damn good reason to be concerned.

Concerned why? Because he wasn't going to burglarize another condo with somebody watching him? He's 17 and black....he can run like the wind the short distance to his dad's place and get help. Does he? No. Does he call the cops or have Rachel call them? No. Does he try to hide? No. Instead he circles around and attacks the "watcher". I'm a RECONDO-trained combat Vet, a GoJu Ryu blackbelt. Would I do what he did? Not a chance in Hell given his circumstances.....attack an unknown lurker who's brave enough to track me in the first place? I have to assume he's an accomplished fighter or armed. Why would I take the chance? I'd get home, get help on the way, arm myself, and lay dog.

Sooner or later you have to stop these bullshit word games and get real....Trayvon was up to no good that night and when things didn't go his way, he got stupid and then he got dead.

 

[B. Kidd]

Piers Organ LOL, talk about setting the bar low for a CNN interview.

I thought I was gonna puke. He treated her like she was a little puppy that was abandoned on the side of the road. I bet her cell records would give him a stroke. ( but I'm sure Crump has made sure that they are all erased. There goes her life)

10-4 that!
Piers interviewed Atty. Mark O'Mara last night and Piers was on his P's and Q's during that interview. Piers realized that he was in the company of superior intelligence.

 

[Noomi]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

Key witness recounts Trayvon Martin's final phone call - CNN.com


From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

Watching is as good as stalking, in my book.

 

[Wildman]

He was watching and following and didn't identify himself to the kid. He was stalking him and Trayvon was fighting for his life.

He never saw that gun until it was too late. Maybe he would have raped him if Trayvon hadn't put up a fight. He is a molester afterall.

i am 99.98% certain this post is a pure sarcastic sick joke................. right ??

 

[Wildman]

she testified to that.

She did not. It never came up before the interview with Piers Morgan. So she lied.

and Piers just let's it slide ?? WTF ?

he let it slide because Piersy boy IS

 

[The Professor]

Watching and following is not 'stalking'. The legal definition of stalking is repeated/multiple episodes of following someone over a certain time. He followed him once and he was within his legal right to do so. Also, someone merely following you does not give you right to assault them.

You are correct.

Zimmerman did not stalk Martin, he merely followed him for a brief time. Stalking is a crime, whereas following someone is not. Those who use the word “stalking” do not know the legal definition of the word. Here is the Florida Statute pertaining to stalking:

Florida Statute 784.084

(2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person’s child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(NOTE: Emphasis my own.)

784.048 - - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

Of course, the word “maliciously” means “having or showing a desire to cause harm to someone.” Therefore, in order for Zimmerman to be convicted of stalking, it must be shown that he repeatedly followed Martin with the the intent to harm him. Since the evidence proves that Zimmerman and Martin had never met before, his conduct could not be classified as any level of stalking. Further there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman followed Martin for any reason other than his concern for the safety of his neighborhood. If Zimmerman followed Martin with the intent to kill him, I question why he didn't fire his weapon until after he had been knocked to the ground and pummeled.

The notion that Zimmerman just wanted to kill a Black kid is inconsistent with Zimmerman's history of going out of his way to help Blacks. Anyone who thinks Zimmerman is a racist should read this link:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hen-i-m-the-queen-of-england.html#post7532616

No matter what anyone personally thinks of Zimmerman, he did not stalk Martin. In law, crimes are specifically defined and Zimmerman did nothing which could possibly be construed as stalking as that term is defined by law. Following someone is not stalking him. Watching someone is not stalking him.

 

[blastoff]

GZ most certainly DID stalk Martin.

stalk 2 (stôk)v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.

v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.


GZ was the predator. Martin was his prey. And like any good hunter, he shot his quarry through the heart.

It's a moot point----Trayvon's friend said that he was worried about being WATCHED. That's what he said. Nothing was said about following.

It's not a moot point since nobody who's walking really worries about being watched if the person doing the watching isn't following them. People can look at someone through a living room window, or a car window, or while sitting on a porch, and nobody is going to get worked up about it if they're either stationary or headed in the opposite direction. It's only when they continue to follow the person that their perfectly natural sense of concern for their personal safety is roused. It's the whole survival instinct thing. Obviously, at this point in time, it's quite obvious that Martin had damn good reason to be concerned.

Concerned, huh? But apparently not concerned enough to head to his dad's place where his concern would simply melt away. According to court testimony, it would have taken Martin all of about 30 seconds to get there, but instead there's an entire four minute gap in which no one knows where Martin was before he suddenly appeared and attacked Zimmerman.

If I'm concerned I'm being stalked, am 30 seconds from safety, and possess the speed of linebacker, I'm definitely lowering the speed record to dad's. Who wouldn't? Well, punks looking for trouble for one.

 

[The Professor]

Watching and following is not 'stalking'. The legal definition of stalking is repeated/multiple episodes of following someone over a certain time. He followed him once and he was within his legal right to do so. Also, someone merely following you does not give you right to assault them.

GZ most certainly DID stalk Martin.

stalk 2 (stôk)v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.

v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.


GZ was the predator. Martin was his prey. And like any good hunter, he shot his quarry through the heart.

Not a legal definition. And not a crime.

And no hunter waits until his "prey" has knocked him to the ground and has inflicted serious injury before he shoots.

Besides, if you had done any research you would know that George Zimmerman has a history of going out of his way to help Blacks.

Oh, fuck it, you're right. George Zimmerman woke up that morning with only one thought in mind: to kill a Black person. When he observed innocent skittles-eating Martin he saw his chance. He punched Martin (without leaving a mark on his own hands or anywhere on Martin's body) in order to trick Martin into knocking him to the ground and pummeling him, thereby enabling him to kill Martin and claim self-defense.

Damn, I should have seen it.

 

[testarosa]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway.

This is my favorite part of the OP

 

[Caroljo]

Watching and following is not 'stalking'. The legal definition of stalking is repeated/multiple episodes of following someone over a certain time. He followed him once and he was within his legal right to do so. Also, someone merely following you does not give you right to assault them.

GZ most certainly DID stalk Martin.

stalk 2 (stôk)v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.

v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.


GZ was the predator. Martin was his prey. And like any good hunter, he shot his quarry through the heart.

Each states laws are a little different....maybe you should have looked for Florida's stalking law??

Florida Stalking Laws

Willful, malicious, and repeated following or harassing. (704.048(2)); Aggravated stalking: willful, malicious and repeated following or harassing another with credible threats with the intent to place person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury; or willfully, maliciously, repeatedly follows or harasses minor under 16; or after injunction for protection or any court-imposed prohibition of conduct, knowingly, willfully, maliciously and repeatedly follows or harasses another person. - See more at: Florida Stalking Laws - FindLaw
Florida Stalking Laws - FindLaw

How many times did Zimmerman REPEATEDLY follow Martin????

 

[Caroljo]

Watching and following is not 'stalking'. The legal definition of stalking is repeated/multiple episodes of following someone over a certain time. He followed him once and he was within his legal right to do so. Also, someone merely following you does not give you right to assault them.

You are correct.

Zimmerman did not stalk Martin, he merely followed him for a brief time. Stalking is a crime, whereas following someone is not. Those who use the word “stalking” do not know the legal definition of the word. Here is the Florida Statute pertaining to stalking:

Florida Statute 784.084

(2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person’s child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(NOTE: Emphasis my own.)

784.048 - - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

Of course, the word “maliciously” means “having or showing a desire to cause harm to someone.” Therefore, in order for Zimmerman to be convicted of stalking, it must be shown that he repeatedly followed Martin with the the intent to harm him. Since the evidence proves that Zimmerman and Martin had never met before, his conduct could not be classified as any level of stalking. Further there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman followed Martin for any reason other than his concern for the safety of his neighborhood. If Zimmerman followed Martin with the intent to kill him, I question why he didn't fire his weapon until after he had been knocked to the ground and pummeled.

The notion that Zimmerman just wanted to kill a Black kid is inconsistent with Zimmerman's history of going out of his way to help Blacks. Anyone who thinks Zimmerman is a racist should read this link:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hen-i-m-the-queen-of-england.html#post7532616

No matter what anyone personally thinks of Zimmerman, he did not stalk Martin. In law, crimes are specifically defined and Zimmerman did nothing which could possibly be construed as stalking as that term is defined by law. Following someone is not stalking him. Watching someone is not stalking him.

AH! I just posted the same thing Sorry, didn't see you already had....

 

[Yurt]

the professor is right...a dictionary definition is not the same as a legal definition

 

[Caroljo]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

Key witness recounts Trayvon Martin's final phone call - CNN.com


From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

Watching is as good as stalking, in my book.

You mean when I watch my TV every night I'm stalking it? Or when I watch my grandkids off and on I'm stalking them? Damn!
Read the Florida law that's been posted a couple times here.....the word REPEATEDLY is the biggie. How many times did Zimmerman "watch" Martin? Doesn't matter what you think stalking is, it's what the law thinks.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm not sure who we have to thank for the "stalking" terror becoming so prevalent. Celebrities maybe ? Either way people need to chill a little bit on the stalking claims. Getting a number of PMs from some asshole might barely reach the level of minor harassment but stalking it ain't. You don't get to walk around in public pretending to be invisible.

 

[midcan5]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

And so this is OK in your world? How so? Can anyone watch you too? Would that be OK? You are beginning to appear as a special sort of dumbass who hides in an apologetics that selects minutiae in a effort to back up the indefensible. Next time someone watches you so closely they get out of their car to watch you, let us know how it feels.

 

[PoliticalChic]

He was watching and following and didn't identify himself to the kid. He was stalking him and Trayvon was fighting for his life.

He never saw that gun until it was too late. Maybe he would have raped him if Trayvon hadn't put up a fight. He is a molester afterall.

The only explanation for your post is that you tossed the scrabble tiles and posted exactly what came up.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

And so this is OK in your world? How so? Can anyone watch you too? Would that be OK? You are beginning to appear as a special sort of dumbass who hides in an apologetics that selects minutiae in a effort to back up the indefensible. Next time someone watches you so closely they get out of their car to watch you, let us know how it feels.

So....you'd teach your children to take a swing at anyone looking at them?


Didn't think so.

 

[dilloduck]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

And so this is OK in your world? How so? Can anyone watch you too? Would that be OK? You are beginning to appear as a special sort of dumbass who hides in an apologetics that selects minutiae in a effort to back up the indefensible. Next time someone watches you so closely they get out of their car to watch you, let us know how it feels.

In a public place? Are you just flat stupid ? Of course everyone is free to watch each other in a public place. It's the definition of public. Are you aware that people actually dress so that they will be watched ? The style their hair so they will be watched. Etc etc etc.

 

[Caroljo]

I understand the futility of reasoning but I'll try this anyway. Here's the direct quote from Trayvons good friend who was on the phone with him.

"A man was watching him," said Rachel Jeantel, 19, who was on the phone with Martin just before he was fatally shot. "He said the man kept watching him. He kept complaining that a man was just watching him."

From now on please focus your bitching on the fact that Zimmerman was watching Trayvon because that's what REALLY bothered him as evidenced by his own words.

And so this is OK in your world? How so? Can anyone watch you too? Would that be OK? You are beginning to appear as a special sort of dumbass who hides in an apologetics that selects minutiae in a effort to back up the indefensible. Next time someone watches you so closely they get out of their car to watch you, let us know how it feels.

If I was nervous about someone watching me, and as in Martins case, I would have called the police and I would have gone straight home where I felt safe. Someone told me confronting the person is what guys do.....bullshit! Only guys that think they're a tough ass thug. You never know who is packing a gun....it's not being tough, it's being stupid.

 

[whitehall]

That's what the US Dept Justice and the Neighborhood Watch program recommends.