NRA General Counsel Robert Dowlut Convicted of Murder

[WinterBorn]

[

No, the 2nd Amendment was written to allow the population to be armed. It is as relevant today as ever.

No, it's not relevant at all. First, if your logic is you needs your gun to fight the gummit, the gummit has tanks and planes and drones. That's going to be a one-sided fight.

if you needs your gun to fight them coloreds, the fact is, a gun in your house is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

[
Your dramatic attempts as belittling language aside, the feds were WAY out of line during the entire debacle.

This memo from FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson shows that.


Both the internal 1994 Ruby Ridge Task Force Report and the public 1995 Senate subcommittee report on Ruby Ridge criticized the rules of engagement as unconstitutional. In other words, the feds fucked up.

Again, Coulson was a paper-pusher trying to cover his ass after a debacle. Until he was the one who had crazy Nazis pointing guns at him, he really didn't have much to say.

The fight would be much more one-sided if every citizen were unarmed. Every despot and petty dictator has disarmed the population they wished to subdue. There is a reason for that. And the fact that you think the fight would be completely one-sided is nice. Perhaps you could inform the gov't of that fact. The reports they have done show it would be difficult to subdue the US civilian population.

Yeah, you make the same bullshit claims over and over. The fact is that the task force and the Senate subcommittee agreed with Coulson. Your assessment of the entire fiasco is in disagreement with pretty much every shred of evidence. But you keep pretending. It fits in with all the lies you have told.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The fight would be much more one-sided if every citizen were unarmed. Every despot and petty dictator has disarmed the population they wished to subdue. There is a reason for that. And the fact that you think the fight would be completely one-sided is nice. Perhaps you could inform the gov't of that fact. The reports they have done show it would be difficult to subdue the US civilian population.

Um, that's not true. Usually, most petty dictators have had no problem getting people with guns who were happy to shoot their neighbors. The mythology of the "disarmed populace" is exactly that. The problem with these countries was "too many guns". Nazi Germany, Bolshevik Russia, Communist China- what you had were populations with lots of guns and lacking basic humanity because years of war and starvation beat it out of them.

Frankly, given the kind of racist, homophobic and misogynistic shit that falls out of the mouths of Wingnuts, I'm a lot more worried about you guys having guns than the government.

[
Yeah, you make the same bullshit claims over and over. The fact is that the task force and the Senate subcommittee agreed with Coulson. Your assessment of the entire fiasco is in disagreement with pretty much every shred of evidence. But you keep pretending. It fits in with all the lies you have told.

The Senate at that time was made up of the same kinds of Wingnuts who tried to defend David Koresh and impeach Clinton over a blow job. So that gets you nothing.

 

[WinterBorn]

Funny that you bring his name up so many times. Brown had actually committed crimes and been convicted of violent crimes. Yet you defend him. Weaver had not been convicted of anything and had lived an honest life, but you celebrate the slaughter of his son and wife. You are a sick fuck.

Um, Brown had never been convicted of a violent crime.

Official Michael Brown had no felony conviction as juvenile

A juvenile court official said Wednesday that Ferguson Police shooting victim Michael Brown was never convicted of a serious felony such as first-degree murder or second-degree murder. The information came out in St. Louis County Circuit Court as the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and GotNews.com petitioned to have Brown's juvenile record made public, if it existed.

The Nazis did kill a federal agent.

Other sources suggest he was convicted of violent crimes, but until they release the records we won't know. Have you seen the picture from his FaceBook page? The one with him holding a wad of money in his mouth and a pistol in his hand? Brown was, at the very least, a violent criminal. Much more so than Randy Weaver, which was my point.

The Weavers did not kill a federal agent. And to use the agent's death as justification for the entire mess ignores the fact that the feds changed the rules of engagement, invaded the Weaver's private property, set Randy Weaver up on bogus charges, and the feds fired first the night Sammy Weaver was murdered. All of that happened before the fed was killed. But ignoring the facts or lying about the facts has been your trademark move all thru this thread.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

The fight would be much more one-sided if every citizen were unarmed. Every despot and petty dictator has disarmed the population they wished to subdue. There is a reason for that. And the fact that you think the fight would be completely one-sided is nice. Perhaps you could inform the gov't of that fact. The reports they have done show it would be difficult to subdue the US civilian population.

Um, that's not true. Usually, most petty dictators have had no problem getting people with guns who were happy to shoot their neighbors. The mythology of the "disarmed populace" is exactly that. The problem with these countries was "too many guns". Nazi Germany, Bolshevik Russia, Communist China- what you had were populations with lots of guns and lacking basic humanity because years of war and starvation beat it out of them.

Frankly, given the kind of racist, homophobic and misogynistic shit that falls out of the mouths of Wingnuts, I'm a lot more worried about you guys having guns than the government.

[
Yeah, you make the same bullshit claims over and over. The fact is that the task force and the Senate subcommittee agreed with Coulson. Your assessment of the entire fiasco is in disagreement with pretty much every shred of evidence. But you keep pretending. It fits in with all the lies you have told.

The Senate at that time was made up of the same kinds of Wingnuts who tried to defend David Koresh and impeach Clinton over a blow job. So that gets you nothing.

"Frankly, given the kind of racist, homophobic and misogynistic shit that falls out of the mouths of Wingnuts, I'm a lot more worried about you guys having guns than the government."???? That is hilarious, considering that you defend Michael Brown, who we know committed crimes, but celebrate the murder of two innocent civilians who had not committed any crime whatsoever. Your hypocrisy is amazing.

Did they defend Koresh or did they condemn the methods used to kill him?

Also, did they try to impeach Clinton over a blowjob or because he lied? Now I understand why you think lying is acceptable. But it is actually not. Your characterization of the impeachment is another lie from you. The charges were not about the blowjob. He was charged with perjury and obstruction.

But we are not going down another deadend topic so that you can avoid the one at hand.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Other sources suggest he was convicted of violent crimes, but until they release the records we won't know. Have you seen the picture from his FaceBook page? The one with him holding a wad of money in his mouth and a pistol in his hand? Brown was, at the very least, a violent criminal. Much more so than Randy Weaver, which was my point.

You mean THIS picture.

Well, sorry, man.

Cop Under Investigation For Posting Fake Picture Of Mike Brown News One

Kansas City police officer Marc Catron is under internal review after posting racially inflammatory Facebook posts about the uprising in Ferguson in response to the police murder of 18-year-old Michael Brown, including a picture “mistakenly” identifying Brown as a murder suspect.

As previously reported by NewsOne, Joda Cain, 17, is accused of murdering his great-grandmother, Jacqueline Bell, 71, at her home in Portland, Oregon then stealing her car to flee the area.

[
The Weavers did not kill a federal agent. And to use the agent's death as justification for the entire mess ignores the fact that the feds changed the rules of engagement, invaded the Weaver's private property, set Randy Weaver up on bogus charges, and the feds fired first the night Sammy Weaver was murdered. All of that happened before the fed was killed. But ignoring the facts or lying about the facts has been your trademark move all thru this thread.

Weaver was also pointing guns at his neighbors, made threats against President Reagan that put him on the Secret Service's radar. And, yes, he tried to buy an illegal weapon.

So the ATF, Secret Service, US Marshals and FBI were all wrong and Poor Gruppenfuhrer Weaver was the victim. Right.

 

[JoeB131]

"Frankly, given the kind of racist, homophobic and misogynistic shit that falls out of the mouths of Wingnuts, I'm a lot more worried about you guys having guns than the government."???? That is hilarious, considering that you defend Michael Brown, who we know committed crimes, but celebrate the murder of two innocent civilians who had not committed any crime whatsoever. Your hypocrisy is amazing.

Guy, i've already proven you wrong about Brown twice.

Did they defend Koresh or did they condemn the methods used to kill him?

A little of both. And they looked like real jackholes when Keri Jewel Testified how Koresh had molested her when she was 10.

Also, did they try to impeach Clinton over a blowjob or because he lied? Now I understand why you think lying is acceptable. But it is actually not. Your characterization of the impeachment is another lie from you. The charges were not about the blowjob. He was charged with perjury and obstruction.

I think it's acceptable to lie when the question never should have been asked to start with. Even the judge had ruled that whether he had sex with Lewisnky or not was irrelevant to whether he had harassed Jones. ANd then she threw out the charges from Jones because she suffered no consequences for refusing Clinton's advances.

But Ken Starr spent 70 million on a panty-sniffing raid, dammit.

But we are not going down another deadend topic so that you can avoid the one at hand.

Quite right. You've dug yourself in deep enough already.

 

[WinterBorn]

"Frankly, given the kind of racist, homophobic and misogynistic shit that falls out of the mouths of Wingnuts, I'm a lot more worried about you guys having guns than the government."???? That is hilarious, considering that you defend Michael Brown, who we know committed crimes, but celebrate the murder of two innocent civilians who had not committed any crime whatsoever. Your hypocrisy is amazing.

Guy, i've already proven you wrong about Brown twice.

Did they defend Koresh or did they condemn the methods used to kill him?

A little of both. And they looked like real jackholes when Keri Jewel Testified how Koresh had molested her when she was 10.

Also, did they try to impeach Clinton over a blowjob or because he lied? Now I understand why you think lying is acceptable. But it is actually not. Your characterization of the impeachment is another lie from you. The charges were not about the blowjob. He was charged with perjury and obstruction.

I think it's acceptable to lie when the question never should have been asked to start with. Even the judge had ruled that whether he had sex with Lewisnky or not was irrelevant to whether he had harassed Jones. ANd then she threw out the charges from Jones because she suffered no consequences for refusing Clinton's advances.

But Ken Starr spent 70 million on a panty-sniffing raid, dammit.

But we are not going down another deadend topic so that you can avoid the one at hand.

Quite right. You've dug yourself in deep enough already.

Dude, you have been caught lying how many times in this thread???
And there is video tape of Brown committing a violent crime. That you want to downplay that shows more about your argument than you wish.

Have I defended Koresh? Have I said he shouldn't have been arrested? No, I have not. But I have said that they had plenty of opportunity to arrest him in town. Instead they decided to take a more violent and dangerous route.

Whether the line of questioning should have been allowed or not has no bearing on my argument. You claim they tried to impeach Clinton because he got a blowjob. That was a lie.

I have no dug myself any sort of hole. But you have dug one deep enough with your lies to show you are clueless. The baseless arguments have only added to the depth.
Tell us again how many guns Nancy Lanza had?
Tell us again how Sammy Weaver shot a federal agent?
Tell us again that Nancy Lanza believed in zombies?
Tell us again how the societal differences between Japan & the US are relevant when talking about suicides, but not relevant when talking about murders?
Tell us again how Harris was acquitted because it was Sammy Weaver who killed the deputy?
Tell us again how the Bill of Rights was written to protect gov't rights?
Tell us again how the samurai swords were relevant in a discussion of the council for the NRA?
Tel us again how you know that making guns harder to get will stop suicides?

The list goes on and on.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Dude, you have been caught lying how many times in this thread???
And there is video tape of Brown committing a violent crime. That you want to downplay that shows more about your argument than you wish.

I noticed you didn't answer how that wasn't him with the wad of money in his mouth. Yeah, you looked silly claiming that.

Sorry, "Grand Theft Cigar" isn't a capital offense.

[
Have I defended Koresh? Have I said he shouldn't have been arrested? No, I have not. But I have said that they had plenty of opportunity to arrest him in town. Instead they decided to take a more violent and dangerous route.

Uh, no, guy. They had a valid warrant. the Davidians started shooting because they were a bunch of crazy fucks who were following a pedophile.

And when Koresh realized he was going to the big house and what they do to his kind in prison, he took his whole deluded flock with him.

[
Whether the line of questioning should have been allowed or not has no bearing on my argument. You claim they tried to impeach Clinton because he got a blowjob. That was a lie.

Well, no, the question was, was he lying because he like something like 50% of men at that time, doesn't consider a blow job to be sex. And Ken Starr spent 70 million trying to prove there was something other than blow jobs.

[
I have no dug myself any sort of hole. ...
The list goes on and on.

True, you do sound a little whiny, guy.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

Other sources suggest he was convicted of violent crimes, but until they release the records we won't know. Have you seen the picture from his FaceBook page? The one with him holding a wad of money in his mouth and a pistol in his hand? Brown was, at the very least, a violent criminal. Much more so than Randy Weaver, which was my point.

You mean THIS picture.

Well, sorry, man.

Cop Under Investigation For Posting Fake Picture Of Mike Brown News One

Kansas City police officer Marc Catron is under internal review after posting racially inflammatory Facebook posts about the uprising in Ferguson in response to the police murder of 18-year-old Michael Brown, including a picture “mistakenly” identifying Brown as a murder suspect.

As previously reported by NewsOne, Joda Cain, 17, is accused of murdering his great-grandmother, Jacqueline Bell, 71, at her home in Portland, Oregon then stealing her car to flee the area.

[
The Weavers did not kill a federal agent. And to use the agent's death as justification for the entire mess ignores the fact that the feds changed the rules of engagement, invaded the Weaver's private property, set Randy Weaver up on bogus charges, and the feds fired first the night Sammy Weaver was murdered. All of that happened before the fed was killed. But ignoring the facts or lying about the facts has been your trademark move all thru this thread.

Weaver was also pointing guns at his neighbors, made threats against President Reagan that put him on the Secret Service's radar. And, yes, he tried to buy an illegal weapon.

So the ATF, Secret Service, US Marshals and FBI were all wrong and Poor Gruppenfuhrer Weaver was the victim. Right.

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

But this pic

is Brown committing strong arm robbery.

 

[JoeB131]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

[
But this pic

is Brown committing strong arm robbery.

Or it's a picture of him getting into a fight with someone who called him a name.

But since that store clerk never filed a robbery report, all we have is speculation.

But let's say he was guilty of "Grand Theft Cigar". Certainly that's a lot less serious than shooting a Federal Marshall.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

Dude, you have been caught lying how many times in this thread???
And there is video tape of Brown committing a violent crime. That you want to downplay that shows more about your argument than you wish.

I noticed you didn't answer how that wasn't him with the wad of money in his mouth. Yeah, you looked silly claiming that.

Sorry, "Grand Theft Cigar" isn't a capital offense.

[
Have I defended Koresh? Have I said he shouldn't have been arrested? No, I have not. But I have said that they had plenty of opportunity to arrest him in town. Instead they decided to take a more violent and dangerous route.

Uh, no, guy. They had a valid warrant. the Davidians started shooting because they were a bunch of crazy fucks who were following a pedophile.

And when Koresh realized he was going to the big house and what they do to his kind in prison, he took his whole deluded flock with him.

[
Whether the line of questioning should have been allowed or not has no bearing on my argument. You claim they tried to impeach Clinton because he got a blowjob. That was a lie.

Well, no, the question was, was he lying because he like something like 50% of men at that time, doesn't consider a blow job to be sex. And Ken Starr spent 70 million trying to prove there was something other than blow jobs.

[
I have no dug myself any sort of hole. ...
The list goes on and on.

True, you do sound a little whiny, guy.

I answered. I simply didn't answer fact enough for you. Which is kind of funny, since you have attempted to ridicule me for answer too fast on other occasions. lol

Strong armed robbery is not a capital offense. You are correct. But since you think having racist beliefs IS a capital offense, your ideas on the matter are laughable.

The FBI knew they could have taken Koresh in town. Yes, they had a warrant. That really doesn't change what I said.

Look, you claimed they tried to impeach Clinton because of a blowjob. The actual charges against Clinton were perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are the facts. So you lied again. lol

And whiny?? lol I am not the one calling for the removal of constitutional rights. I am not the one who wants citizens shot based solely on what they believe. I am not the one celebrating the murder of a 14 year old boy and his mother. I am not the one trying to cook the numbers and ignore the results of numerous studies.

No, I am not whining. I am enjoying making you look like a fool. Of course, with your repeated lies you do make it easy.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

[
But this pic

is Brown committing strong arm robbery.

Or it's a picture of him getting into a fight with someone who called him a name.

But since that store clerk never filed a robbery report, all we have is speculation.

But let's say he was guilty of "Grand Theft Cigar". Certainly that's a lot less serious than shooting a Federal Marshall.

It certainly is a lot less serious. But then, strong arm robbery (the actual crime he committed) is far more serious than any crime committed by Sammy Weaver or Vicki Weaver. And the evidence is certainly more substantial than the evidence that Randy Weaver altered two shotguns.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

Because I haven't followed the case very closely? And since it actually has no relevance to the topic of this thread, I have no problem saying that.

 

[JoeB131]

The black hole of emotional need whines some more.

[Q

I answered. I simply didn't answer fact enough for you. Which is kind of funny, since you have attempted to ridicule me for answer too fast on other occasions. lol

Strong armed robbery is not a capital offense. You are correct. But since you think having racist beliefs IS a capital offense, your ideas on the matter are laughable.

No, murdering a federal marshal is a capital offense.

[Q
The FBI knew they could have taken Koresh in town. Yes, they had a warrant. That really doesn't change what I said.

The Warrant wasn't for Koresh, it was to inspect the guns he was selling at gun shows and the kits he was using to convert them to full automatic weapons. So they really did kind of need to get into his house.

[Look, you claimed they tried to impeach Clinton because of a blowjob. The actual charges against Clinton were perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are the facts. So you lied again. lol

The fact is the Senate couldn't convict him on either of those charges.

And whiny?? lol I am not the one calling for the removal of constitutional rights. I am not the one who wants citizens shot based solely on what they believe. I am not the one celebrating the murder of a 14 year old boy and his mother. I am not the one trying to cook the numbers and ignore the results of numerous studies.

"waaaah, you want to take away my rights."
"waaaah, you think it's okay to shoot Nazi haters!"
"waaaah, you don't accept the NRA's bogus studies"

Seriously, guy, you are one serious fucking whiner.

[Q
No, I am not whining. I am enjoying making you look like a fool. Of course, with your repeated lies you do make it easy.

And yet you are the one getting unhinged here.

 

[JoeB131]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

Because I haven't followed the case very closely? And since it actually has no relevance to the topic of this thread, I have no problem saying that.

Actually, it has a lot of relavence. The reason we have cops armed like they are is because we have too many guns.

Sadly, it also means they shoot the occassional kid

 

[JoeB131]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

[
But this pic

is Brown committing strong arm robbery.

Or it's a picture of him getting into a fight with someone who called him a name.

But since that store clerk never filed a robbery report, all we have is speculation.

But let's say he was guilty of "Grand Theft Cigar". Certainly that's a lot less serious than shooting a Federal Marshall.

It certainly is a lot less serious. But then, strong arm robbery (the actual crime he committed) is far more serious than any crime committed by Sammy Weaver or Vicki Weaver. And the evidence is certainly more substantial than the evidence that Randy Weaver altered two shotguns.

And again, the store clerk never filed a robbery report.

The Nazi Weavers did shoot at federal agents, and threatened violence against anyone who came up to their compound.

 

[WinterBorn]

The black hole of emotional need whines some more.

[Q

I answered. I simply didn't answer fact enough for you. Which is kind of funny, since you have attempted to ridicule me for answer too fast on other occasions. lol

Strong armed robbery is not a capital offense. You are correct. But since you think having racist beliefs IS a capital offense, your ideas on the matter are laughable.

No, murdering a federal marshal is a capital offense.

[Q
The FBI knew they could have taken Koresh in town. Yes, they had a warrant. That really doesn't change what I said.

The Warrant wasn't for Koresh, it was to inspect the guns he was selling at gun shows and the kits he was using to convert them to full automatic weapons. So they really did kind of need to get into his house.

[Look, you claimed they tried to impeach Clinton because of a blowjob. The actual charges against Clinton were perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are the facts. So you lied again. lol

The fact is the Senate couldn't convict him on either of those charges.

And whiny?? lol I am not the one calling for the removal of constitutional rights. I am not the one who wants citizens shot based solely on what they believe. I am not the one celebrating the murder of a 14 year old boy and his mother. I am not the one trying to cook the numbers and ignore the results of numerous studies.

"waaaah, you want to take away my rights."
"waaaah, you think it's okay to shoot Nazi haters!"
"waaaah, you don't accept the NRA's bogus studies"

Seriously, guy, you are one serious fucking whiner.

[Q
No, I am not whining. I am enjoying making you look like a fool. Of course, with your repeated lies you do make it easy.

And yet you are the one getting unhinged here.

Yes, murdering a marshal is a capital offense. But Sammy Weaver and Vicki Weaver did not murder anyone. Yet you celebrate their deaths because of their beliefs.

No, the senate did not convict him of either crime. But the point is that you claimed they tried to impeach Clinton because of a blowjob. That the questions should not have been asked or whether he was convicted or not does not change the fact that you lied about why they tried to impeach Clinton. The charges were perjury and obstruction, not getting a blowjob, as you claimed.

I am not crying about you wanting to take away my rights. I am simply arguing your ridiculous points.

I think your celebration of the murder of two people because of their beliefs is sick. Not crying, just calling you a sick fucker.

And the study you refuse to accept was not done or funded by the NRA. That you deny that at least 100,000 crimes are stopped annually by civilians with guns does not make the facts any less true. And I am not crying, I am mocking you.

Unhinged? lmao That you can make that accusation without any shred of evidence shows it is simply another lie. Keep lying. It makes your argument look even worse.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

Because I haven't followed the case very closely? And since it actually has no relevance to the topic of this thread, I have no problem saying that.

Actually, it has a lot of relavence. The reason we have cops armed like they are is because we have too many guns.

Sadly, it also means they shoot the occassional kid

Less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the guns in this country are used to commit a murder. And many of those were gotten illegally. We have over-armed cops because they face violent people.

And no, it has no relevance to the topic.

 

[Joe Steel]

... No, the 2nd Amendment was written to allow the population to be armed. It is as relevant today as ever. ...

No. The Second Amendment guarantees civilian control of the military.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

My mistake. I thought the pic was of Brown.

Why would you think that/ That was debunked weeks ago.

[
But this pic

is Brown committing strong arm robbery.

Or it's a picture of him getting into a fight with someone who called him a name.

But since that store clerk never filed a robbery report, all we have is speculation.

But let's say he was guilty of "Grand Theft Cigar". Certainly that's a lot less serious than shooting a Federal Marshall.

It certainly is a lot less serious. But then, strong arm robbery (the actual crime he committed) is far more serious than any crime committed by Sammy Weaver or Vicki Weaver. And the evidence is certainly more substantial than the evidence that Randy Weaver altered two shotguns.

And again, the store clerk never filed a robbery report.

The Nazi Weavers did shoot at federal agents, and threatened violence against anyone who came up to their compound.

Whether a report was filed or not does not change the facts of what Brown did.

Did Sammy Weaver know it was federal agents that shot his dog and fired at him? I mean, before he was shot in the back while running away? The feds had nightvision gear, but the murdered 14 year old boy did not.