NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon users: Why?

[Mertex]

Not a conspiracy theory. It's really happening. The Guardian has a copy of the court order.

I'd heard this on Levin earlier and checked it out. The Guardian (left wing Brit newspaper) is reporting that the NSA is secretly collecting millions of Verizon subscribers phone records.

Check this out.

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday.

All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

More at link:

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily | World news | The Guardian

the real question is

why was this information leaked

it isnt like this hasnt been happening for a very long time

could it be a diversion

away from the

IRS scandal among others

Ha,ha, always the typical Republican, paranoia to the nth degree! The IRS scandal is not partisan to Obama. And it was leaked because some idiot conservative thought that it is something new and probably afraid they are going to find out all the nasty vulgar calls he has been making -

What he is finding out is that Liberals are the ones that are against it, while some conservatives (those that haven't figured out that GWB was doing it and think it is another scandal against Obama) are expressing devastation over it - won't they be surprised to find out that some of their leaders in the GOP are thoroughly okay with it. Once they find out that the ACLU is against it - watch them shut up really quick.

 

[jon_berzerk]

--LOL


Andrea Mitchell @mitchellreports Verified account
NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent/anchor, MSNBC Andrea Mitchell Report
President Xi wont be staying at luxurious Sunnylands retreat because of eavesdropping worries instead he and his wife at nearby Hyatt

 

[flacaltenn]

Not a conspiracy theory. It's really happening. The Guardian has a copy of the court order.

I'd heard this on Levin earlier and checked it out. The Guardian (left wing Brit newspaper) is reporting that the NSA is secretly collecting millions of Verizon subscribers phone records.

Check this out.

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday.

All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

More at link:

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily | World news | The Guardian

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

You care that they also have the LOCATION of the calls, time date, duration? So they know where you travel, where your KIDS are, who you bank with, your client list, a good idea of who you donate to, ect, ect. But it's more than that. It's an elegant data processing system that displays associations and movements of people and money. Do you know that you are not just twice removed from a suspect? Maybe someone at your mosque or church or bridge club?

Lemme get straight. You don't see how ANYTHING could go wrong here. Is that right?

Especially after seeing how peoples' protected donor lists ended up in the press from the IRS? THAT is prohibited is it not?

You're a trusting sole. A couple visits from some 3 letter agencies will fix that real quick like.

 

[flacaltenn]

--LOL


Andrea Mitchell @mitchellreports Verified account
NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent/anchor, MSNBC Andrea Mitchell Report
President Xi wont be staying at luxurious Sunnylands retreat because of eavesdropping worries instead he and his wife at nearby Hyatt

That's hysterical.. I said to someone tonight that I can't wait for Xi to lecture Obama on domestic spying and Civil Rights.

 

[jon_berzerk]

--lol


andrea mitchell @mitchellreports verified account
nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent/anchor, msnbc andrea mitchell report
president xi wont be staying at luxurious sunnylands retreat because of eavesdropping worries instead he and his wife at nearby hyatt

That's hysterical.. I said to someone tonight that i can't wait for xi to lecture obama on domestic spying and civil rights.

--lol

 

[jon_berzerk]

Not a conspiracy theory. It's really happening. The Guardian has a copy of the court order.

I'd heard this on Levin earlier and checked it out. The Guardian (left wing Brit newspaper) is reporting that the NSA is secretly collecting millions of Verizon subscribers phone records.

Check this out.

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday.

All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

More at link:

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily | World news | The Guardian

the real question is

why was this information leaked

it isnt like this hasnt been happening for a very long time

could it be a diversion

away from the

IRS scandal among others

Ha,ha, always the typical Republican, paranoia to the nth degree! The IRS scandal is not partisan to Obama. And it was leaked because some idiot conservative thought that it is something new and probably afraid they are going to find out all the nasty vulgar calls he has been making -

What he is finding out is that Liberals are the ones that are against it, while some conservatives (those that haven't figured out that GWB was doing it and think it is another scandal against Obama) are expressing devastation over it - won't they be surprised to find out that some of their leaders in the GOP are thoroughly okay with it. Once they find out that the ACLU is against it - watch them shut up really quick.

you are pretty far out there tonight

--LOL

 

[Mertex]

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

You care that they also have the LOCATION of the calls, time date, duration? So they know where you travel, where your KIDS are, who you bank with, your client list, a good idea of who you donate to, ect, ect. But it's more than that. It's an elegant data processing system that displays associations and movements of people and money. Do you know that you are not just twice removed from a suspect? Maybe someone at your mosque or church or bridge club?

So, you think they are actually examining each and every number for such details?

They already know who you donate to, unless you don't claim them on your income tax, and who you bank with is not hard to find out even without your phone number. As for where your kids are, it's not like the phone number provides a GPS with a video of where your kids are. You seem to have some paranoid twisted picture of the government being some mean evil ogre wanting to do harm to your children.

Lemme get straight. You don't see how ANYTHING could go wrong here. Is that right?

No, not really. If the government was going to single me out for whatever reason, there is other ways that they can obtain information about me. I'm not paranoid that way.

Especially after seeing how peoples' protected donor lists ended up in the press from the IRS? THAT is prohibited is it not?

People who have things to hide are usually the ones that are getting all freaked out over it.

You're a trusting sole. A couple visits from some 3 letter agencies will fix that real quick like.

Based on what? My phone number and the people that have accessed my number?
If they wanted to get me that bad, they wouldn't need my phone number. You're missing the whole point of the need for the information and how it is going to be used.

 

[flacaltenn]

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

You care that they also have the LOCATION of the calls, time date, duration? So they know where you travel, where your KIDS are, who you bank with, your client list, a good idea of who you donate to, ect, ect. But it's more than that. It's an elegant data processing system that displays associations and movements of people and money. Do you know that you are not just twice removed from a suspect? Maybe someone at your mosque or church or bridge club?

So, you think they are actually examining each and every number for such details?

They already know who you donate to, unless you don't claim them on your income tax, and who you bank with is not hard to find out even without your phone number. As for where your kids are, it's not like the phone number provides a GPS with a video of where your kids are. You seem to have some paranoid twisted picture of the government being some mean evil ogre wanting to do harm to your children.


No, not really. If the government was going to single me out for whatever reason, there is other ways that they can obtain information about me. I'm not paranoid that way.

Especially after seeing how peoples' protected donor lists ended up in the press from the IRS? THAT is prohibited is it not?

People who have things to hide are usually the ones that are getting all freaked out over it.

You're a trusting sole. A couple visits from some 3 letter agencies will fix that real quick like.

Based on what? My phone number and the people that have accessed my number?
If they wanted to get me that bad, they wouldn't need my phone number. You're missing the whole point of the need for the information and how it is going to be used.

Look Mertex.. You be the innocent little lamb and see where it gets you.. 85% of the USMB are smart enough to see the wolf at the door.. There's a poll on the board that says that.

I COULD explain to you how sophisticated and amazing modern data mining techniques are. I have that background. I also know a bit about the spy biz.. But why bother?? You are not listening when I tell you they have access to LOCATION DATA as part of that data.
And you think the govt knows about donations to 501 C3/C4 interest orgs and they don't. They only know about donations to PARTIES and POLITICIANS.

THINK you have nothing to hide?? Do you have batteries and fertilizer in your garage? Those are "bomb-making" materials.. Ever carry lots of cash? Or have any Pyrex cookware in your kitchen? Tweezers in your drawers? Sure signs of drug dealing if you do. Be surprised at how quickly one can get framed.

So did the lady this week at the Congressional hearing that had the IRS send 3 other agencies to check her out SIMPLY -- because of political shenanigans. SHE had nothing to hide either.. But MISUSE of technology and power made her life hell.

Have a great time defending the indefensible.. You must be SOOO scared of terrorists, that you don't mind the risk of living in an instant tyranny. Just pull the switch, and start data mining for some subversive connection in your life according to the new boss.

 

[FA_Q2]

What's all the whining about? It has been going on since Bush was in office - nothing new here.

All they are gathering are the "numbers" - not the conversations or the names of the people who correspond with the number. In suspicious cases of terrorist acts, they will check to see what numbers had contact from the number they are suspicious of, and check further to see whether there is a link to a terrorist group in the US.

Since there are more terrorist groups in the US than anywhere else in the world, I would think more people would be more concerned about being blown up by these idiots than keeping your privacy. Go figure.


Reality Check: There are more terrorist groups active in the US than any other country in the world | Opinion - Conservative

Except that claim from your link is a bald faced lie. You really should vet what you are reading a little better – the link to the source data was right in the article that you are swallowing hook line and sinker. I would think that you might have looked into it a little better as you know darn well that ‘before its news’ is a whack job site.
Source data: Terrorism | CSIS
The actual source data quote:

There are many terrorist organizations active within Canada's borders. Their presence can be attributed to Canada's proximity to the United States, one of the world's pre-eminent terrorist targets….

The doctored statement quoted in the article you linked:

Many Canadians may be surprised to learn that, with the exception of
the United States, there are more terrorist groups active in Canada today
than in any other country in the world. Their presence can be attributed
to Canada's proximity to the United States, one of the world's pre-eminent
terrorist targets….

Being blown up by idiots is an EXTREMELY unlikely scenario. You are far more likely to die in a car accident or even by hammer. Seeding freedoms out of fear is a terrible idea particularly when they are unlikely to even succeed at stopping them anyway.

 

[FA_Q2]

hey, Mr. Obama...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Ben Franklin

I always thought that Ben's aphorism was a bit over-stated.

There have been times in our history when it has been commendable for folks to voluntarily give up (temporarily) some of their essential liberties. Like, for example, when they join the military, especially in times of war.

There are times when non military folks can also make a temporary sacrifice of some of their liberties for the greater good of keeping all of us (body and soul) together.

That said, Obama was OPPOSED to this kind of thing BEFORE he was President. NOW, he's apparently okay with it enough to DO it. He's just not all that fond of admitting what he's up to.

Except that your point does not have anything to do with the quote. Individuals are not ceding rights for security in the service, they are doing something quite different – ceding rights AND security to secure those rights for others.

His statement was, I feel, directed at the populous as a whole ceding natural rights to feel secure. Something that should NEVER be done. Ceding those rights do not lead to security.

IMHO at least.

 

[FA_Q2]

The house put it into the defense bill. There was no way, politically, he could veto that..especially with a war going on.

It's not something you'd understand.

I understand perfectly. You give the president credit for everything that he signs that you agree with. Then you absolve him of every action that he takes that you disagree with.

Here is the simple truth – he signed the bill. A bill that was a travesty BTW but he still signed it either way. That is his responsibility and his decision. There is no way of taking his part in its passing away from him other than being a blind partisan hack.

Continue to call anyone anyone holding Obama responsible for the legislation he signs as unintelligent by saying they won’t understand. It only reinforces the known fact that you are a hack.

Like I said.

You wouldn't understand it.

If you think he was going to lose re-election on to stand on principle..you're thinking that Obama is either Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter.

That's not the case.

More excuses.

So now standing on principal is damning while passing terrible legislation is just fine.

You are a tool.

 

[Wroberson]

Can you handle the truth?

EMF Targeting. TruTV Jesse Ventura on Ondemand. Targeted Individuals. I don't hear the voices. Paranoia is an inside joke. This leaves racing thoughts and an ear ache as my only symptoms. I was compelled to by a meter. The one item Jesse didn't bring up, but he proved that people can be targeted. It'll be here Monday. I'm testing everything. Even the casino, police cars and red light cameras.

Electro Magnetic Field (EMF) - Hazardous to Our Health?

I just thought of this just before I was contacting the McClaughlin Group on WTTW . I like the show and comment weekly. You can watch online or on PBS Saturday Night.

I think this NSA will be a discussed issue and I have some input.

 

[Sallow]

the real question is

why was this information leaked

it isnt like this hasnt been happening for a very long time

could it be a diversion

away from the

IRS scandal among others

Ha,ha, always the typical Republican, paranoia to the nth degree! The IRS scandal is not partisan to Obama. And it was leaked because some idiot conservative thought that it is something new and probably afraid they are going to find out all the nasty vulgar calls he has been making -

What he is finding out is that Liberals are the ones that are against it, while some conservatives (those that haven't figured out that GWB was doing it and think it is another scandal against Obama) are expressing devastation over it - won't they be surprised to find out that some of their leaders in the GOP are thoroughly okay with it. Once they find out that the ACLU is against it - watch them shut up really quick.

you are pretty far out there tonight

--LOL

Not far out at all. But lets compare the solutions.

Issue - Gathering Phone Records.
Liberal Solution - Repeal Patriot Act.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - Benghazi Attacks.
Liberal Solution - Provide embassy with funding for proper security.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - Spying on Journalists.
Liberal Solution - Enact Journalist protection laws.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - IRS profiling.
Liberal Solution - Comport 501c law and regulation. Provide funding.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.


You see a pattern here?

 

[Sallow]

I understand perfectly. You give the president credit for everything that he signs that you agree with. Then you absolve him of every action that he takes that you disagree with.

Here is the simple truth – he signed the bill. A bill that was a travesty BTW but he still signed it either way. That is his responsibility and his decision. There is no way of taking his part in its passing away from him other than being a blind partisan hack.

Continue to call anyone anyone holding Obama responsible for the legislation he signs as unintelligent by saying they won’t understand. It only reinforces the known fact that you are a hack.

Like I said.

You wouldn't understand it.

If you think he was going to lose re-election on to stand on principle..you're thinking that Obama is either Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter.

That's not the case.

More excuses.

So now standing on principal is damning while passing terrible legislation is just fine.

You are a tool.

Well no.

You are..and a hack as well.

You somehow expect Democrats to behave in a manner that makes it impossible for them to win elections.

Yeah..I am buying that you think that is a good thing.

Gotta love it.

 

[Ravi]

Ha,ha, always the typical Republican, paranoia to the nth degree! The IRS scandal is not partisan to Obama. And it was leaked because some idiot conservative thought that it is something new and probably afraid they are going to find out all the nasty vulgar calls he has been making -

What he is finding out is that Liberals are the ones that are against it, while some conservatives (those that haven't figured out that GWB was doing it and think it is another scandal against Obama) are expressing devastation over it - won't they be surprised to find out that some of their leaders in the GOP are thoroughly okay with it. Once they find out that the ACLU is against it - watch them shut up really quick.

you are pretty far out there tonight

--LOL

Not far out at all. But lets compare the solutions.

Issue - Gathering Phone Records.
Liberal Solution - Repeal Patriot Act.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - Benghazi Attacks.
Liberal Solution - Provide embassy with funding for proper security.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - Spying on Journalists.
Liberal Solution - Enact Journalist protection laws.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.

Issue - IRS profiling.
Liberal Solution - Comport 501c law and regulation. Provide funding.
Conservative Solution - Impeach Obama.


You see a pattern here?

Very true. I just love conservatives.

 

[depotoo]

Depotoo:

Would really like your link for that DNI announcement because there's a different message up on their website for June 6, 2013.. That appears to be older..

DNI Statement on Activities Authorized Under Section 702 of FISA

DNI Statement on Activities Authorized Under Section 702 of FISA
Thursday, June 06, 2013

June 6, 2013

DNI Statement on Activities Authorized Under Section 702 of FISA

The Guardian and The Washington Post articles refer to collection of communications pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They contain numerous inaccuracies.

Section 702 is a provision of FISA that is designed to facilitate the acquisition of foreign intelligence information concerning non-U.S. persons located outside the United States. It cannot be used to intentionally target any U.S. citizen, any other U.S. person, or anyone located within the United States.

Activities authorized by Section 702 are subject to oversight by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the Executive Branch, and Congress. They involve extensive procedures, specifically approved by the court, to ensure that only non-U.S. persons outside the U.S. are targeted, and that minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about U.S. persons.

Section 702 was recently reauthorized by Congress after extensive hearings and debate.

Information collected under this program is among the most important and valuable foreign intelligence information we collect, and is used to protect our nation from a wide variety of threats.

The unauthorized disclosure of information about this important and entirely legal program is reprehensible and risks important protections for the security of Americans.

Gotta pick the sorry ass excuses apart...

You cant' determine from phone metarecords whether they are "US citizens, any other US person, or anyone else located in the US".. So what GOOD is it? Literally that phrase gives exemption to the 9-11 hijackers DOESN'T IT? We know he's lying right there. Since you can't TELL the status from the data, ALL OF THE DATA IS being processed.

And WE KNOW that isn't true from the court ruling that ALL the data must be made available. The DNI hasn't got a peg-leg to stand on... You still not concerned Depotoo? You got any sense of self-preservation?

I think from my posts it is pretty apparent I question most everything. Found it and thought it should be posted. I try to put together all the info I can find when anything comes out.

DNI Statement on Recent Unauthorized Disclosures of Classified Information
I had posted the link one post down, but here it is again for you.

 

[depotoo]

so, according to news this morning, there is a new $2 billion dollar complex being built to house this data, almost complete.

 

[zeke]

I hated the Patriot Act when it was implemented by Bush. And I hate the Patriot Act Plus being implemented by Obama.

You Rethug opened a big can of worms when you all thought that terrorists were gonna invade and take over the gool ole USA.

Some people (including myself) understood that we had quite a bit more to fear from our governments new ability to collect info on Americans than we had to fear from some dudes in the mountains of Afghanistan or Iraq.

We are now starting to reap what was sowed. Bad news IMO.

 

[depotoo]

actually I believe it is FISA they are collecting this info under.

And my question is this. Since all this is purportedly being done to find the terrorists, has it not been proven over and over that the terrorists actually use disposable phones? And doesn't Islam believe in cash transactions? So, how would this being done help in finding those terrorists?

 

[jon_berzerk]

so, according to news this morning, there is a new $2 billion dollar complex being built to house this data, almost complete.

yes correct