Nuclear meltdown in Japan reactor?

[Big Fitz]

There used to be a day when you had to prove direct links to harm. We should be going back to that.

Maybe we should be going back to that for some purposes, like legal damages liability. But there are lots of things that are true that can't be proven, like gravity. We know it is true but we can't prove what causes it.

In the case of the deaths caused by burning coal I am sure that is statistical proof they relied on to arrive at that stat. And I for one do not doubt it. But the quote only says that the figures stated are estimates.

Do you have to be able to prove estimates accurate?

Statistical evidence is not proof of direct cause. There are hundreds of factors that can cause those diseases. Till you run down all the others, you cannot conclusively say that it is a fact burning coal caused it. A meltdown is a little easier to prove if they die of radiation poisoning. But now if they get pancreatic cancer 20 years down the line... you could assume their radiation exposure contributed, but you still have no real proof.

This is the problem with all these types of cases. They assume statistical estimates and data equal absolutes. But, that went by the boards with Rachel Carson and DDT. Didn't need to prove anything, just had to allege and show a trend that was plausible. Ask the cigarette manufacturers for one. Or fast food now. This is a substitute for those who want compensation to life kicking them in the cojones from somebody, and can't find a direct cause to blame. They use statistical probability instead.

 

[Chris]

One of the other reactor buildings just blew up...

TOKYO -- Japan's chief cabinet secretary says a hydrogen explosion has occurred at Unit 3 of Japan's stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant. The blast was similar to an earlier one at a different unit of the facility.

Yukio Edano says people within a 12-mile (20-kilometer) radius were ordered inside following Monday's. AP journalists felt the explosion 30 miles (50 kilometers) away.

Hydrogen explosion at stricken Japanese nuke plant - World - MiamiHerald.com

 

[skeptic]

They assume statistical estimates and data equal absolutes.

well, in this case they said that statistical estimates = estimates. I can't see any harm in that.

 

[skeptic]

it may be something you just have to take into account, and design facilities to handle it. As you stated above, coal plants produce waste too, and in far greater amounts per Megawatt. At least the nuclear stuff is in one place, and while dangerous, easy to handle if you know the proper precautions.

For the garbage analogy you would have to include that you only produce one bag of garbage every 3-4 years, and your backyard is the size of ohio to get the sizes in perspective.

But the reason why coal plants produce more radioactive emissions than nuclear plants is because the nuclear plants have yet to dispose of any of their waste.

This is an enormous systemic shortcoming yet to be solved or accounted for. No discussion of the viability of nuclear power gets past the first sentence without addressing it.

So address it, please.

 

[martybegan]

it may be something you just have to take into account, and design facilities to handle it. As you stated above, coal plants produce waste too, and in far greater amounts per Megawatt. At least the nuclear stuff is in one place, and while dangerous, easy to handle if you know the proper precautions.

For the garbage analogy you would have to include that you only produce one bag of garbage every 3-4 years, and your backyard is the size of ohio to get the sizes in perspective.

But the reason why coal plants produce more radioactive emissions than nuclear plants is because the nuclear plants have yet to dispose of any of their waste.

This is an enormous systemic shortcoming yet to be solved or accounted for. No discussion of the viability of nuclear power gets past the first sentence without addressing it.

So address it, please.

The disposal is sequestering it, as they planned to do at yucca mountain. Coal burning disperses natural radioactive particles into the atmosphere, thus rendering them uncontrolled.

While nuclear plant waste is far more concentrated, it is at least a point source, i.e., you know where it is.

With current technology you simply cannot make the waste "go away". The best current solution is to find a nice safe place to entomb it and store it until the radioactivity goes away. I know there is reasearch going on to find ways of further using the waste as fuel, but until then, you are just going to have to store it.

 

[Ravi]

But Pentagon officials reported Sunday that helicopters flying 60 miles from the plant picked up small amounts of radioactive particulates — still being analyzed, but presumed to include cesium-137 and iodine-121 — suggesting widening environmental contamination.



In a country where memories of a nuclear horror of a different sort in the last days of World War II weigh heavily on the national psyche and national politics, the impact of continued venting of long-lasting radioactivity from the plants is hard to overstate.



Japanese reactor operators now have little choice but to periodically release radioactive steam as part of an emergency cooling process for the fuel of the stricken reactors that may continue for a year or more even after fission has stopped. The plant’s operator must constantly try to flood the reactors with seawater, then release the resulting radioactive steam into the atmosphere, several experts familiar with the design of the Daiichi facility said.



That suggests that the tens of thousands of people who have been evacuated may not be able to return to their homes for a considerable period, and that shifts in the wind could blow radioactive materials toward Japanese cities rather than out to sea.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/japan-fukushima-nuclear-reactor.html?_r=1&hp

 

[Chris]

A third reactor has now failed....

Tokyo (CNN) -- Another reactor at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant lost its cooling capabilities Monday, a government official said.

The problem was detected in the plant's No. 2 reactor Monday afternoon after an explosion rocked the building containing the plant's No. 3 reactor, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters.

"We think that the hydrogen explosion in (the building housing) reactor No. 3 caused the cooling system of reactor No. 2 to stop working," Edano said.

Water levels were falling and pressure was building up inside the No. 2 reactor, he said, and officials were working on a plan to release gas and also inject seawater into that reactor.

Cooling system fails in another reactor at Japanese nuclear plant - CNN.com

 

[Big Fitz]

They assume statistical estimates and data equal absolutes.

well, in this case they said that statistical estimates = estimates. I can't see any harm in that.

But when estimates are used to 'prove' damage and then cost people money, I have a huge problem with it.

 

[konradv]

The only long term answer to radioactive waste is fusion power.

Department of Energy - Fusion

ITER - the way to new energy

 

[Big Fitz]

The only long term answer to radioactive waste is fusion power.

Department of Energy - Fusion

ITER - the way to new energy

Oh good... And that will be operational for industrial scale production... when?

That's right... maybe by 2090ad.

And if a containment bottle fails there, it just acts like a small star flashing on the surface of the planet for a moment. Nooooo, not dangerous at all.

 

[Mr. Jones]

A third reactor has now failed....

Tokyo (CNN) -- Another reactor at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant lost its cooling capabilities Monday, a government official said.

The problem was detected in the plant's No. 2 reactor Monday afternoon after an explosion rocked the building containing the plant's No. 3 reactor, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters.

"We think that the hydrogen explosion in (the building housing) reactor No. 3 caused the cooling system of reactor No. 2 to stop working," Edano said.

Water levels were falling and pressure was building up inside the No. 2 reactor, he said, and officials were working on a plan to release gas and also inject seawater into that reactor.

Cooling system fails in another reactor at Japanese nuclear plant - CNN.com

It seems the situation is made worse according to scattered reports of MOX nuclear fuel being used in reactor #3, which is potentially more dangerous then regular uranium used in the other reactors.

According to World Nuclear News, in August 2010 Japan loaded Mox fuel into the Fukushima #3 reactor.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/WR-Gearing_up_for_MOX_in_Japan_and_US-0111108.html

How is Mox fuel different then uranium? The BBC has also confirmed that Mox Fuel has been used in reactor #3!
"n the meantime, there have been suggestions that an incident at reactor 3 would inherently be more dangerous than at reactors 1 and 2 because it burns "mixed oxide fuel" (MOX) containing plutonium."
BBC News - Struggle to stabilise Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant

 

[Chris]

I remember the chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission saying he was prepared to defend nuclear waste sites for "100,000 years"...

Because some radioactive species have half-lives longer than one million years, even very low container leakage and radionuclide migration rates must be taken into account. Moreover, it may require more than one half-life until some nuclear waste loses enough radioactivity so that it is no longer lethal to humans. Waste containers have a modeled lifetime of 12,000 to over 100,000 years, and it is assumed they will fail in about two million years. A 1983 review of the Swedish radioactive waste disposal program by the National Academy of Sciences found that country’s estimate of about one million years being necessary for waste isolation “fully justified.”

Radioactive waste - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ginscpy]

That there have been so few -if any -lives lost in Japan (so far) as a result of nuclear plant damage - after an 8.9 quake -seems to indicate that nuclear plants are pretty safe.

But the greenwackoffs/lib-media don't want good news -they want complete meltdowns with huge loss of life to further their agendas.

 

[Ravi]

That there have been so few -if any -lives lost in Japan (so far) as a result of nuclear plant damage - after an 8.9 quake -seems to indicate that nuclear plants are pretty safe.

But the greenwackoffs/lib-media don't want good news -they want complete meltdowns with huge loss of life to further their agendas.

Stick to reliving the sixties...moron.

 

[ginscpy]

​

That there have been so few -if any -lives lost in Japan (so far) as a result of nuclear plant damage - after an 8.9 quake -seems to indicate that nuclear plants are pretty safe.

But the greenwackoffs/lib-media don't want good news -they want complete meltdowns with huge loss of life to further their agendas.

Stick to reliving the sixties...moron.

I am about to live the 60s - MY 60s - born 1953

 

[Old Rocks]

That there have been so few -if any -lives lost in Japan (so far) as a result of nuclear plant damage - after an 8.9 quake -seems to indicate that nuclear plants are pretty safe.

But the greenwackoffs/lib-media don't want good news -they want complete meltdowns with huge loss of life to further their agendas.

What a lowlife lying bastard you are.

 

[dimfry]

There has been a 3rd explosion now in reactor-1 again. It's getting serious. The reports says there are deposits of Uranium and Plutonium there.

 

[skookerasbil]

Woke up this AM and went over to DRUDGE.......same lame alarmist crap. Got some coffee......same crap on the networks.

This is dragging out too long. When you hear the word "meltdown" in every single sentence.............

meh..........theres not going to be any epic catastrophy here beyond what the tsunami has already wrought. Expect the hysteria to last another few days..........then we'll be back to debating gayness on here.

 

[skookerasbil]

That there have been so few -if any -lives lost in Japan (so far) as a result of nuclear plant damage - after an 8.9 quake -seems to indicate that nuclear plants are pretty safe.

But the greenwackoffs/lib-media don't want good news -they want complete meltdowns with huge loss of life to further their agendas.

What a lowlife lying bastard you are.

s0n.........Ive always said you have the political IQ of a lawnmower spark plug. Guessing your Mom nursed you to 4 years old. You trust anything s0n.......as long as its hysterical.

 

[skookerasbil]

past nuclear meltdowns causing extensive radiation all happened within 24 hours. We're out past 96 hours on this..........

Wake up and smell the maple nut crunch!!!