NY City Blackout -- A Political Science lesson for American Socialists.

[flacaltenn]

Yes, I want the government to do it. A private company will find things to fix that don’t need fixing just to pad the bill. Corporations are thieves. The bigger they are, the more corrupt.

What does Congress KNOW about the technology, science, research, economics of RUNNING anything? They blew thru a $Bill dollars and were 6 months late on a simple Insurance Marketplace app.... They can't get the IRS to give citizens reliable tax advice 40 or 50% of the time.. And they SURE don't know about energy business and the research and capacity issues...

Private companies exist I make a profit, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary. If corporations always gave good service and cared about their reputations, products wouldn’t constantly have to be recalled and we wouldn’t be awash in class action law suits.

You're just so unbelievably naive. It's the fact that companies CEASE TO EXIST if they don't perform.. They are frightened to death of lawsuits and bad PR...

Can you do a class action suit against the govt if all that Green Energy starts contributing to people DYING of heat or cold or darkness? NO.. You can't EVEN get their attention until THEY contact YOU for donations..

It's the recalls, and the lawsuits and the bad press that MAKE companies perform.. You have NONE of those options when the government continually fucks up...

Like when the EPA had some desk jockey yahoos that decided to take a field because THEY THOUGHT they could "fix" an old mining site in Colorado... Welll OOOPPSSS, they turned 2 of the finest pristine rivers in the state toxic and orange... And did they get fired or sued???

NOBODY in govt ever really gets punished for malpractice.. You need to learn that. Politicians fear NOTHING but elections...

 

[Lewdog]

For the general public When i was leaving they were just starting to get underground wireless and Internet up and running
14th st was one of the first to get it I think

They can barely keep the subways running Now which these days horrifically overcrowded .
How to power such a massive system during a power outage ? its not like a back up generator for a building

Tricky tricky tricky indeed

See my post about the toronto system... Not THAT tricky because a relatively small nat gas plant that can fired up in 10 minutes would power the rails.. You could put it on a barge in the Hudson for crying out loud.. Just need to run new feeds to the power stations in the subways...

Yeah but this is New York!!! The place where it takes years to get permission do do anything.

And having a fossil fuel backup generator for critical public safety is gonna kill the planet in LESS than 12 years... I can see AOC leading the protests...

When companies come in and OFFER to fund and do the work -- these same lefties scream about profit and privatization.. But a LOT of this stuff could get done faster and with LITTLE cost to the taxpayers..

When govt gets slow and inept and bulky and wonky, just go around them... While we can....

The problem is, when each party gets into office they go through and tear down what the previous party did and over compensate.

For God's sake Trump appointed a fossil fuel lobbyist as the head of the EPA.

Probably because sane people realize there's no REAL "Miracle Energy" card like you just posted. And what's CALLED alternatives are really just "supplements"... So -- I really DO NOT want a national energy policy written by ANY SUBSET of Congressional brain-damaged power whores...

Do YOU???

It's actually necessary to INVOLVE the folks who KNOW that field and market.. That's part of the problem with govt taking over sectors of the economy one by one... They THINK they know the science, technology and economics -- but they are deluded "drain bramaged" actors....

Yes you should "involve them," but you sure as hell shouldn't have them RUNNING the department, especially if all they are going to do is just deregulate everything without doing the proper research because you are more worried about being escorted around town by your own security force with a siren on top the car, in search of used mattresses and expensive perfume lotion.

 

[flacaltenn]

The power is back on.

The thread premise is ridiculous idiocy.

Public safety isn't as important as horseshit partisan politics to you -- is it???

 

[fbj]

Feeling sad for New York......it's becoming like Calizuela.....

Whatever liberals touch.....turns into .....(you know what)

DOOKIE??

 

[flacaltenn]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So either they were designed with battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

Yes, I want the government to do it. A private company will find things to fix that don’t need fixing just to pad the bill. Corporations are thieves. The bigger they are, the more corrupt.

Private companies exist I make a profit, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary. If corporations always gave good service and cared about their reputations, products wouldn’t constantly have to be recalled and we wouldn’t be awash in class action law suits.

Also D-Lady, the US government OWNS and is RESPONSIBLE for some of the most polluted land and clean-up sites... Whether it's abandoned Nuclear Weapons sites like Hanford and Savannah River with thousands of leaking barrels of nuclear waste from building atomic bombs or TVA coal plants that get special permissions and waivers that fully COMMERCIALLY OWNED plants don't. Or the toxic messes on their military bases...

There's just no fucking accountability for this because OTHER PARTS of the government are dysfunctional or otherwise let them get away with stuff...

AND YOU WANT MORE OF THIS????

 

[Lewdog]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So either they were designed with battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

Yes, I want the government to do it. A private company will find things to fix that don’t need fixing just to pad the bill. Corporations are thieves. The bigger they are, the more corrupt.

Private companies exist I make a profit, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary. If corporations always gave good service and cared about their reputations, products wouldn’t constantly have to be recalled and we wouldn’t be awash in class action law suits.

Also D-Lady, the US government OWNS and is RESPONSIBLE for some of the most polluted land and clean-up sites... Whether it's abandoned Nuclear Weapons sites like Hanford and Savannah River with thousands of leaking barrels of nuclear waste from building atomic bombs or TVA coal plants that get special permissions and waivers that fully COMMERCIALLY OWNED plants don't. Or the toxic messes on their military bases...

There's just no fucking accountability for this because OTHER PARTS of the government are dysfunctional or otherwise let them get away with stuff...

AND YOU WANT MORE OF THIS????

So your answer to all of this is put guys in place like Pruitt and deregulate every thing?

I'm so confused, one minute you are screaming about people like AOC for wanting to clean things up. the next you are talking about how crooked and dirty the government is when it comes to pollution.

Which is it and what do you think is the right answer?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, I want the government to do it. A private company will find things to fix that don’t need fixing just to pad the bill. Corporations are thieves. The bigger they are, the more corrupt.

Private companies exist I make a profit, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary. If corporations always gave good service and cared about their reputations, products wouldn’t constantly have to be recalled and we wouldn’t be awash in class action law suits

 

[OldLady]

Very strange, there were no storms, no strain on the grid per se. Anyone heard of the possible cause for the blackout?

No, but it was the anniversary of the 1977 blackout. Was that a coincidence? Good article on what was happening on the ground during the lights out.

Heart of New York goes dark as Manhattan suffers power outage

 

[Olde Europe]

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..

How well corporate America is doing providing back-up power and redundancies - not for their own operation but for their esteemed customers - we can observe with hours-long blackouts. Apparently, the cost-benefit analysis they were running meant that customers get the shaft in case something fails. Because cutting cost and enhancing the bottom line of utility owners results in customers denied service and their being saddled with the costs.

But yeah, "socialism" is at fault. That bogeyman comes in handy every time.

 

[irosie91]

excuse me folks------what there any violence or deaths from whatevah or looting?

 

[Tehon]

Nonsense.

It’s a partial blackout the result of a mechanical failure – having nothing to do with politics or mythical ‘socialists.’

Are you not following along here?. I'm NOT talking about the CAUSE of the black-out.. Those things happen.. I'm talking about caring enough to HARDEN the infrastructure to keep the public SAFE during a black-out...

THAT should be as high a priority as spending any money you don't have on "platform issues" and grandstanding.. Answer my previous question to you... Why is it all the news bureaus in the black--out zone are on the air and broadcasting and able to field helicopters and live shots? But the traffic lights can't continue to operate. And people are getting groped on subway trains stuck between stations??

Wait wait ---- how do you KNOW people are getting groped on subways? Where ARE you right now??

It's after midnight.. The groping escalates after the sun goes down.. I've ridden many subway systems...

See your doctor.

Do you tell them "the groping will continue until morale improves"?

Grope this.. I repeat.. Subway trains don't HAVE to get stranded between stations. You can get the trains BACK to nearest station, save the rescue crews and pandemonium and -- foil the gropers and pickpockets and acid tripping freakshows...

Toronto nailed it.. It's NOT difficult...

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So what happens when the power goes out? What does the TTC do to ensure safety and minimize the impact on all of these riders?

It’s important to realize that the subway cars are powered by an electrified rail. These rails all have their own substations, so in a power outage such as last night’s, the subways can continue to operate. The same is true of streetcars and their overhead wires. In the subway, if even this power is interrupted, there is limited backup power to allow for a safe shutdown of the system, with the trains returning to their rail yards.

What can’t continue to operate, however, are the stations. They have some emergency backup power for things like lights and ventilation systems, but it’s limited, and lasts only a while. The subway is gradually and systematically closed down because the stations can’t be operated safely.

Our leadership sucks. And I don't want more of it that's for sure. We're losing the American mojo and some wannabee leaders are trying to kill it permanently.

You just undermined the premise of your thread.

 

[Polishprince]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So they were designed with either battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

What I didn't understand is why this was "news" for anyone outside the town of New York itself.

Last summer, a large portion of Hermitage PA had a blackout for twice as long as this one, and not a peep on the national media. The vast majority of Americans have never been to NY, and a large proportion are conservatives who have been told by the governor of the state to stay the hell out.


Shit happens, whether this was a lightning strike, a truck accident or something else, they can fix it.

What's more important are the regular blackouts in liberal utopias like Caracas, caused by Liberal incompetence

 

[saveliberty]

NYC has been in the dark for decades. Let me know when their self importance goes out okay?

 

[OldLady]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So they were designed with either battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

What I didn't understand is why this was "news" for anyone outside the town of New York itself.

Last summer, a large portion of Hermitage PA had a blackout for twice as long as this one, and not a peep on the national media. The vast majority of Americans have never been to NY, and a large proportion are conservatives who have been told by the governor of the state to stay the hell out.


Shit happens, whether this was a lightning strike, a truck accident or something else, they can fix it.

What's more important are the regular blackouts in liberal utopias like Caracas, caused by Liberal incompetence

When you think of how little was left functioning for that short time in just a sliver of the city of New York, with huge crowds being evacuated onto the streets, the subways not running, the traffic jammed up for lack of lights (we won't even think about the people caught in elevators), and of course no one's computer working....this should make us ALL give some thought to what would happen if we had a real, massive blackout. We are too reliant on electricity, and considering how we can barely function without it, we should be a damned sight more careful about keeping it up and running--or have redundant systems ready to come on line immediately.

 

[Pogo]

"A Springfield"?

This is a Springfield M1A that can be handed to someone...

Well that figures. Power goes out and the first thing some wag thinks is "hey! I can go shoot somebody and not lose votes!"

Me, I'd be more inclined to look up to the stars I couldn't usually see, or marvel at how the usual sounds had changed. This guy goes "me go kill". Astounding.

 

[Polishprince]

"A Springfield"?

This is a Springfield M1A that can be handed to someone...

Well that figures. Power goes out and the first thing some wag thinks is "hey! I can go shoot somebody and not lose votes!"

Me, I'd be more inclined to look up to the stars I couldn't usually see, or marvel at how the usual sounds had changed. This guy goes "me go kill". Astounding.

I've been through many power outages over the years. What I don't see is why this one is considered so much more newsworthy that other outages in Deplorable areas?

 

[Pogo]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So they were designed with either battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

What I didn't understand is why this was "news" for anyone outside the town of New York itself.

Last summer, a large portion of Hermitage PA had a blackout for twice as long as this one, and not a peep on the national media. The vast majority of Americans have never been to NY, and a large proportion are conservatives who have been told by the governor of the state to stay the hell out.


Shit happens, whether this was a lightning strike, a truck accident or something else, they can fix it.

What's more important are the regular blackouts in liberal utopias like Caracas, caused by Liberal incompetence

When you think of how little was left functioning for that short time in just a sliver of the city of New York, with huge crowds being evacuated onto the streets, the subways not running, the traffic jammed up for lack of lights (we won't even think about the people caught in elevators), and of course no one's computer working....this should make us ALL give some thought to what would happen if we had a real, massive blackout. We are too reliant on electricity, and considering how we can barely function without it, we should be a damned sight more careful about keeping it up and running--or have redundant systems ready to come on line immediately.

I'm happy to note that when we get a blackout here, which is not unusual, it doesn't knock me off this site Ya gotta be prepared here in the sticks.

Makes no discernible difference in the outside world but I always appreciated it when I lived in the city for the way it would immediately silence all the cacophony of blaring televsions, etc and reveal the sky we never got to see. One night I went to sit out on the porch in the serenity and strummed a guitar. I could hear another instrument (a dulcimer) off in the distance answering back. Later found out it was my brother.

 

[Pogo]

"A Springfield"?

This is a Springfield M1A that can be handed to someone...

Well that figures. Power goes out and the first thing some wag thinks is "hey! I can go shoot somebody and not lose votes!"

Me, I'd be more inclined to look up to the stars I couldn't usually see, or marvel at how the usual sounds had changed. This guy goes "me go kill". Astounding.

I've been through many power outages over the years. What I don't see is why this one is considered so much more newsworthy that other outages in Deplorable areas?

It isn't. Power goes out for three hours when it's not even dark, big whoop, deal with it. Strangely there walk among us those who see it as an opportunity to take a political dump or go start shooting. It's their loss that they wrap themselves so tight.

 

[Pogo]

NYC has been in the dark for decades. Let me know when their self importance goes out okay?

Ah, a Red Sox fan.

 

[Pogo]

Was watching a bit of the coverage of the black-out tonight, and I noticed on completely dark streets just north of Times Square, that most all of the power was out, but the iconic Advertising billboards? Most of them seemed to be working fine..

Blackout extends way south to MSGarden and some of the shots I could not place, but in MOST of them showing a very darkened Manhattan -- the TRAFFIC LIGHTS were OUT, but the jeans and vacation ads were still lit...

How can there be a need to call-in every cop in the boroughs to direct traffic in Manhattan, but the sales pitches go on? It's called "incentive" and "accountability"... Those billboards are only valuable, when they are working. The revenue is based on "up-time" and exposure.. So either they were designed with battery backup or generators.

If the windmills and the solar generation can be battery backed up as a NATIONAL grid design ( I actually doubt this, but for arguments' sake) why can't the Manhattan traffic lights be also?

Why is it that critical infrastructure that the city owns that provide safety and security are not designed with worst case scenarios in mind? There's no INCENTIVE or really VISIBILITY for spending money on stuff in govt that only makes you a hero "once in a long while"..


Seems to me this Socialist Fancy that's spreading obviously means "single payer" for a LARGE SECTION of the US economy.. And what's the MOTIVATION and INCENTIVE to stay ahead of the problems and produce reliable, well designed systems? Do you really want the GOVT to inspect your elevators or a private company whose existence and reputation is on the line every day?

HHHMMMM????

Yes, I want the government to do it. A private company will find things to fix that don’t need fixing just to pad the bill. Corporations are thieves. The bigger they are, the more corrupt.

Private companies exist I make a profit, first and foremost. Everything else is secondary. If corporations always gave good service and cared about their reputations, products wouldn’t constantly have to be recalled and we wouldn’t be awash in class action law suits.

That's exactly why it still astounds me that there is such a thing as "for-profit" hospitals.