NY Times admits: Obamacare is principally a redistribution of wealth scheme

[Politico]

Sola you and the others who spout that crap need to stop. There are poor people all over this country who can't get Medicaid.

 

[JoeB131]

It takes money from producers and gives to moochers. What other than redistribution at the point of a gun by government could it ever be?

Yeah, because in your world Paris Hilton is a "producer" and the poor Mexican lady changing jizz-stained sheets in one of her hotels for minimum wage is a "moocher".

I have great respect for that Mexican woman working as she is not a moocher. She is educating herself as to what skills she can market and goes out and markets them. She raises her family with her husband unlike the moocher class that run off the individual father of the kids they have.
In what world is Paris Hilton, Tiger Woods, Alec Baldwin and the thousands of other entertainers in that they would not be producers?
The funny part is your support of ACA makes insurance companies rich beyond anyone's imagination. Risk management produces NOTHING and you support government control over it 100% in the health insurance market.

I support ACA because it was the best we could do. I'd go single payer if it were left up to me.

Sometimes, you have to bow to political realities.

But back to that nice Mexican Lady. Who do you think pays for her medical and food and housing.

Most people who get Food Stamps and Section 8 Housing and Medicaid have jobs. They just don't have jobs that pay enough to provide for the essentials.

But this is what a world without unions and free trade looks like... the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

 

[Gadawg73]

The Bush tax cuts already redistributed the wealth to the top 1%.

Now where are the jobs Republicans and Bush promised?

Bush tax cuts redistributed far more money to the middle class when they eliminated them from the tax rolls paying NO Federal income tax as a result of that.
The top 1% pay more as a % of total income taxes in this country than they ever have.
Facts sure are a bitch to partisan hack ideologues.

 

[Gadawg73]

Yeah, because in your world Paris Hilton is a "producer" and the poor Mexican lady changing jizz-stained sheets in one of her hotels for minimum wage is a "moocher".

I have great respect for that Mexican woman working as she is not a moocher. She is educating herself as to what skills she can market and goes out and markets them. She raises her family with her husband unlike the moocher class that run off the individual father of the kids they have.
In what world is Paris Hilton, Tiger Woods, Alec Baldwin and the thousands of other entertainers in that they would not be producers?
The funny part is your support of ACA makes insurance companies rich beyond anyone's imagination. Risk management produces NOTHING and you support government control over it 100% in the health insurance market.

I support ACA because it was the best we could do. I'd go single payer if it were left up to me.

Sometimes, you have to bow to political realities.

But back to that nice Mexican Lady. Who do you think pays for her medical and food and housing.

Most people who get Food Stamps and Section 8 Housing and Medicaid have jobs. They just don't have jobs that pay enough to provide for the essentials.

But this is what a world without unions and free trade looks like... the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

Your racist platitudes about Mexicans shows your ignorance.
Mexicans come here, do not speak the language and WORK.
Unlike your union friends that want something for nothing.
Free trade has stabilized the dollar. How do we sell our products without free trade?
At least Clinton, in between his sticking cigars where the sun don't shine, understands basic economics.
Your party is over Joe. Sorry but no longer can a union man with the skills of a 5th grader make a "living wage" when that Mexican man can do it better for $10 a hour.
You really need to get out more often. Go to Mexico and other countries and see the rise in the middle class there because they understand market demand and skills.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Your racist platitudes about Mexicans shows your ignorance.
Mexicans come here, do not speak the language and WORK.
Unlike your union friends that want something for nothing.
Free trade has stabilized the dollar. How do we sell our products without free trade?
At least Clinton, in between his sticking cigars where the sun don't shine, understands basic economics.
Your party is over Joe. Sorry but no longer can a union man with the skills of a 5th grader make a "living wage" when that Mexican man can do it better for $10 a hour.
You really need to get out more often. Go to Mexico and other countries and see the rise in the middle class there because they understand market demand and skills.

Free trade has made it possible for the rich to fuck the working man one more time.

And frankly, I'd rather give a decent wage to a union man that a fucking rich person having a fortune.

 

[Mr Natural]

Sometimes the wealth needs some redistributin

 

[Gadawg73]

Sometimes the wealth needs some redistributin

Wealth is always being redistributed.
It is called the free market.

 

[Gadawg73]

[

Your racist platitudes about Mexicans shows your ignorance.
Mexicans come here, do not speak the language and WORK.
Unlike your union friends that want something for nothing.
Free trade has stabilized the dollar. How do we sell our products without free trade?
At least Clinton, in between his sticking cigars where the sun don't shine, understands basic economics.
Your party is over Joe. Sorry but no longer can a union man with the skills of a 5th grader make a "living wage" when that Mexican man can do it better for $10 a hour.
You really need to get out more often. Go to Mexico and other countries and see the rise in the middle class there because they understand market demand and skills.

Free trade has made it possible for the rich to fuck the working man one more time.

And frankly, I'd rather give a decent wage to a union man that a fucking rich person having a fortune.

Yes, free trade is bad when a dumb ass high school drop out here can no longer have a union job here that pays him $25 a hour in wages and benefits because a Mexican with a 5th grade education can do it better and cheaper.
Free trade forces all workers to better themselves and develop skills that the MARKET DEMANDS.
The horse and buggy days are over Joe. Join us in the real world.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

Yes, free trade is bad when a dumb ass high school drop out here can no longer have a union job here that pays him $25 a hour in wages and benefits because a Mexican with a 5th grade education can do it better and cheaper.
Free trade forces all workers to better themselves and develop skills that the MARKET DEMANDS.
The horse and buggy days are over Joe. Join us in the real world.

Free Trade is bad because usually that Mexican lives in a place where his government doesn't have rule of law or safe environmental standards or fair labor standards.

And frankly, you've never dealt with manufacturing coming out of Mexico or you'd never make such an idiotic statement.

 

[Gadawg73]

[q

Yes, free trade is bad when a dumb ass high school drop out here can no longer have a union job here that pays him $25 a hour in wages and benefits because a Mexican with a 5th grade education can do it better and cheaper.
Free trade forces all workers to better themselves and develop skills that the MARKET DEMANDS.
The horse and buggy days are over Joe. Join us in the real world.

Free Trade is bad because usually that Mexican lives in a place where his government doesn't have rule of law or safe environmental standards or fair labor standards.

And frankly, you've never dealt with manufacturing coming out of Mexico or you'd never make such an idiotic statement.

Unlike you I have been to plants in Mexico many times. Your claims are union spin as their plants are more modern than the ones here.
You union goons suck the life out of business leaving nothing for expansion or retooling existing plants.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

Yes, free trade is bad when a dumb ass high school drop out here can no longer have a union job here that pays him $25 a hour in wages and benefits because a Mexican with a 5th grade education can do it better and cheaper.
Free trade forces all workers to better themselves and develop skills that the MARKET DEMANDS.
The horse and buggy days are over Joe. Join us in the real world.

Free Trade is bad because usually that Mexican lives in a place where his government doesn't have rule of law or safe environmental standards or fair labor standards.

And frankly, you've never dealt with manufacturing coming out of Mexico or you'd never make such an idiotic statement.

Unlike you I have been to plants in Mexico many times. Your claims are union spin as their plants are more modern than the ones here.
You union goons suck the life out of business leaving nothing for expansion or retooling existing plants.

I deal with a plant in Mexico all the time.

They haven't followed my instructions on my purchase order not once not even by accident.

The only reason I can't fire them is because we are owned by the same parent company.

Oh, yeah, when we visit that plant, we are instructed to be back in our hotels on the American side of the border because we are likely to be murdered if we are caught out there at night.

But, yeah, please tell us how Free Trade is so fcuking wonderful for all involved.

Free Traders should be hung like the Rosenbergs. They are bigger traitors than those two ever were.

 

[Gadawg73]

Oh Joe, you are exhibit A of the ignorance of how the free market works.
Unions cost jobs in manufacturing. Just last week another auto manufacturer decided to locate in Georgia. All the while at the same time Tennessee and Mississippi are scared shitless that their auto industries will be held hostage as a result of union activity. And why are they so concerned Joe? Because they know the key factor in bringing manufacturing back to the US and in any state is its right to work status.
There is a reason Joe you got your ass handed to you in Michigan where they adopted a right to work law last year. Citizens, every day Joes, Joe six pack and the MAJORITY of the working folks despise you and your union mentality. They are not stupid and know first hand how you ran them out of their jobs with your anti business rhetoric and actions. They also know it in Washington state where Boeing will move more of their operations to a right to work state.
Too often union contract negotiations end in agreements that force companies to raise the cost of goods and services, discourage investment and shrink their workforce, sending the very people unions CLAIM to protect to the unemployment lines.
The average worker is on to you Joe. No longer can you con them into believing your anti business rhetoric that you and your clan have been parroting for 80 years. You and your union clan use the promise of higher wages, increased benefits and job protections to garner support. Problem is the current facts do not support any of your claims Joe. Nominal personal income has grown at a rate of 60% more in right to work states than in union states from 1990-2011. These same states showed a 45% gain in total employment versus union states. Non union manufacturing jobs grew at a rate of 7% in the last 2 years while unionized manufacturing jobs dropped 5%.
Joe, these gains result from allowing employers the flexibility to make decisions that benefit BOTH the employee and the consumer as you union folks have forgotten about the consumer. This allows them to set prices based on the MARKETPLACE, and as business grows, so does their ability to pay higher wages and provide benefits. Look around Joe, this is happening everywhere in right to work states as your union states are rust buckets now.
But of course as key industry sectors grow in right to work states unions are eager to expand their presence. Businesses in right to work states that are committed to free market principles, something you know nothing about Joe, realize there can be and are successful relationships with certain unions and I support that right.
That right is comprised however, when union organizers such as the UAW attempt street gang thug tactics such as threatening to deny a unionization vote by secret ballot. You and your thug buddies want to have open ballots so you can slash the tires of those that oppose you and then beat them up. Your claims of "fair elections" are bogus to the core and disingenuous. All you are after are power grabs by your unions claiming to be standing up for the rights of employees.
The clear fact is as the numbers are in, an expanded union presence in any state will cost jobs, not create them.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey dumbfuck, you know what, the UAW is trying to unionize Volkswagen in the US, and VW is "sure, why not?" Every other plant they have around the world has a union.

The guys opposing it? The usual suspects from the GOP who are all for it.

And here's the thing. I think if one of my co-workers is going to stab me in the back by voting against stronger workers rights and better wages, he should have the TESTICLES to do it out in the open.

No secret ballots on unionization. Ever.

 

[Gadawg73]

Hey dumbfuck, you know what, the UAW is trying to unionize Volkswagen in the US, and VW is "sure, why not?" Every other plant they have around the world has a union.

The guys opposing it? The usual suspects from the GOP who are all for it.

And here's the thing. I think if one of my co-workers is going to stab me in the back by voting against stronger workers rights and better wages, he should have the TESTICLES to do it out in the open.

No secret ballots on unionization. Ever.

The secret ballot is the foundation of this country.
How does it feel to be on the other end now Joe? Getting your ass kicked because of your history of violence and intimidation. Your history of violence no longer works anymore. We are not scared of you, NO ONE is scared of you anymore.
VW? LOL, they built a huge plant in Tennessee, A RIGHT TO WORK STATE. My nephew works there. College kid age 20 makes $17 a hour plus benefits.
That is a good wage. You lost. UAW had labor costs at one time at $70 a hour wages and benefits. VW chose Tennessee because they are NOT a union state.
And you claim they are pro union? HAHAHAHA

 

[JoeB131]

[

The secret ballot is the foundation of this country.
How does it feel to be on the other end now Joe? Getting your ass kicked because of your history of violence and intimidation. Your history of violence no longer works anymore. We are not scared of you, NO ONE is scared of you anymore.
VW? LOL, they built a huge plant in Tennessee, A RIGHT TO WORK STATE. My nephew works there. College kid age 20 makes $17 a hour plus benefits.
That is a good wage. You lost. UAW had labor costs at one time at $70 a hour wages and benefits. VW chose Tennessee because they are NOT a union state.
And you claim they are pro union? HAHAHAHA

No, 17 bucks an hour is a HORRIBLE wage for someone with a college degree. Seriously, what was the point of even going to college.

And, yeah, if you guys weren't afraid of unions, you wouldn't want a secret ballot with a subtle threat to close down the plant if it unionizes.

Oh, the $70.00 an hour figure has been totally debunked. You only get $70.00 an hour if you count in pension benefits to former workers from the time when automaker made everything in house and employed 10 times as many people.

One more hint for you.

The Pinkertons did what you do, fuck with working people trying to get a fair shake.

Not one history book is kind to the Pinkertons.

 

[jasonnfree]

Oh Joe, you are exhibit A of the ignorance of how the free market works.
Unions cost jobs in manufacturing. Just last week another auto manufacturer decided to locate in Georgia. All the while at the same time Tennessee and Mississippi are scared shitless that their auto industries will be held hostage as a result of union activity. And why are they so concerned Joe? Because they know the key factor in bringing manufacturing back to the US and in any state is its right to work status.
There is a reason Joe you got your ass handed to you in Michigan where they adopted a right to work law last year. Citizens, every day Joes, Joe six pack and the MAJORITY of the working folks despise you and your union mentality. They are not stupid and know first hand how you ran them out of their jobs with your anti business rhetoric and actions. They also know it in Washington state where Boeing will move more of their operations to a right to work state.
Too often union contract negotiations end in agreements that force companies to raise the cost of goods and services, discourage investment and shrink their workforce, sending the very people unions CLAIM to protect to the unemployment lines.
The average worker is on to you Joe. No longer can you con them into believing your anti business rhetoric that you and your clan have been parroting for 80 years. You and your union clan use the promise of higher wages, increased benefits and job protections to garner support. Problem is the current facts do not support any of your claims Joe. Nominal personal income has grown at a rate of 60% more in right to work states than in union states from 1990-2011. These same states showed a 45% gain in total employment versus union states. Non union manufacturing jobs grew at a rate of 7% in the last 2 years while unionized manufacturing jobs dropped 5%.
Joe, these gains result from allowing employers the flexibility to make decisions that benefit BOTH the employee and the consumer as you union folks have forgotten about the consumer. This allows them to set prices based on the MARKETPLACE, and as business grows, so does their ability to pay higher wages and provide benefits. Look around Joe, this is happening everywhere in right to work states as your union states are rust buckets now.
But of course as key industry sectors grow in right to work states unions are eager to expand their presence. Businesses in right to work states that are committed to free market principles, something you know nothing about Joe, realize there can be and are successful relationships with certain unions and I support that right.
That right is comprised however, when union organizers such as the UAW attempt street gang thug tactics such as threatening to deny a unionization vote by secret ballot. You and your thug buddies want to have open ballots so you can slash the tires of those that oppose you and then beat them up. Your claims of "fair elections" are bogus to the core and disingenuous. All you are after are power grabs by your unions claiming to be standing up for the rights of employees.
The clear fact is as the numbers are in, an expanded union presence in any state will cost jobs, not create them.

So when a car company or any company moves offshore and ends up with hourly wages 1/10 of what american wages were, does that car or product go down in price? Maybe not 1/0 but 1/5?. 1/4? No prices stay the same. Who benefits?

 

[flacaltenn]

[

Only 5 million.

Worthless plans.

Depending on the state many of them will lose them Jan 1.

5 million people is close to how many Jews went into the ovens during the Holocaust.
Obama calls plans that were affordable and gave people the coverage they needed "Worthless". They were worth alot to the people involved, but they didn't cover everything Obama feels is of value, like sex-change operations, birth-control pills for men or Catholics who don't believe in it. It doesn't cover people who are below a specific age and out of work. Fact: If you can't pay you don't get Obamacare. A population roughly the size of Texas still won't be able to get health care under Obamacare.

]

Please, guy, this is getting kind of tiresome, isn't it?

It isn't the features people won't use that will cost them money, it's the ones they are likely to, such as pre-existing conditions and no lifetime caps, which are why the cut-rate, no coverage policies aren't qualifying.

These policies were LIES to start with.

Lemme 'splain sumtin to ya.. Your crap has been patiently tolerated and disposed of quite easily in the past.. But folks like me who HAD their professional orgs OUTLAWED from offering group insurance just ain't got any patience left for liars and political suck-ups..

The 20,000 Veterinarians whose group was also outlawed and MY group and hundreds of other professional organization plans for self-employed offered TOP NOTCH health plans. We are just being herded into the exchanges because this redistribution plan needs some deep pockets in the pool. Had NOTHING to do with quality of the plans.

OTH --- YOUR plan --- is offering CERTIFIABLY CRAPPY insurance on the Fed/state exchanges to the POOREST AND MOST VULNERABLE folks.. For those who can barely afford to comply with the law --- the lowest premium plans offer $6K deductibles and only 50% coverage for serious illness.. Are you TRYING to bankrupt the working poor? SURE LOOKS LIKE IT COMRADE...

So nobody's really got any tolerance left at this point for your act.. If you were smart enough to actually debate anything -- you'd be my opponent. But since you're not -- you're simply at this point my enemy....

 

[oreo]

What conservatives have known for years, has now even become apparent to the New York Times, only three years after it was signed into law.

The main function of Obamacare is not health care - we already had that. It is redistribution of wealth - taking money away from people who earn more, and giving it to people who earn less. Health care is merely the excuse.

If the Obamanites had told the truth about their signature program, would it have ever been passed by the House and Senate?

For that matter, would Obama have even been re-elected in 2012?

In fact, if he had told the truth about what he wanted to impose on the country... would he have been elected the first time, in 2008?

The American people have never wanted his or any other brand of socialism. And the liberals knew it. But that didn't stop them. Ruling against the will of the people is the only way they could impose their agenda on us.

And lying, hiding their agenda, and making promises they had no intention of keeping, is the natural exension of this fundamental truth about the people who have done this to us.

-------------------------------------------------------

NYTimes Spills The Beans: ObamaCare Isn?t Health Care, It?s Redistribution Of (Your) Wealth | The Natural Truth

NYTimes Spills The Beans: ObamaCare Isn’t Health Care, It’s Redistribution Of (Your) Wealth

Posted on 11/24/2013

These days the word [redistribution] is particularly toxic at the White House, where it has been hidden away to make the Affordable Care Act more palatable to the public and less a target for Republicans, who have long accused Democrats of seeking “socialized medicine.” But the redistribution of wealth has always been a central feature of the law and lies at the heart of the insurance market disruptions driving political attacks this fall.

“Americans want a fair and fixed insurance market,” said Jonathan Gruber, a health economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who advised Mr. Obama’s team as it designed the law. “You cannot have that without some redistribution away from a small number of people.”…

For those nervous about potential changes, the president promised stability. “If you like your current insurance, you will keep your current insurance,” Mr. Obama said the day he signed the legislation in March 2010, a promise he made repeatedly as the Oct. 1 opening day of the online health insurance marketplaces approached.Hiding in plain sight behind that pledge — visible to health policy experts but not the general public — was the redistribution required to extend health coverage to those who had been either locked out or priced out of the market.

Obama did tell the "truth" when he was speaking to Joe the Plumber--and caught on video when he didn't know he was being video-taped. It just fell on deaf ears.

I think most of the people that voted for Obama actually believed they were going to get FREE health care. They never thought for a second who was going to pay for all of it, and or they believed that Wall Street and or rich people were going to pay for their health insurance.

Obamacare is wealth redistribution--but this time it's distribution extends well into the average American families wallets--that are in no way considered wealthy. The wealth distribution comes to the average American through higher premiums due to the mandates in Obamacare. Being forced to pay for pre-natal--drug abuse and mental health coverage regardless of age or gender. Designed specifically to pay for those that pay nothing under the Obamacare medicade enrollment.

Now finally Americans are paying attention to what is going on, and what he is actually saying. The LIES and distortions to get this past the American public are almost to the point of being criminal.

And lets face it, had anyone other than Barack Obama perpetrated such a fraud as Obamacare upon the American public--they would have already been led off in handcuffs and now facing multiple criminal charges.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh Joe, you are exhibit A of the ignorance of how the free market works.
Unions cost jobs in manufacturing. Just last week another auto manufacturer decided to locate in Georgia. All the while at the same time Tennessee and Mississippi are scared shitless that their auto industries will be held hostage as a result of union activity. And why are they so concerned Joe? Because they know the key factor in bringing manufacturing back to the US and in any state is its right to work status.
There is a reason Joe you got your ass handed to you in Michigan where they adopted a right to work law last year. Citizens, every day Joes, Joe six pack and the MAJORITY of the working folks despise you and your union mentality. They are not stupid and know first hand how you ran them out of their jobs with your anti business rhetoric and actions. They also know it in Washington state where Boeing will move more of their operations to a right to work state.
Too often union contract negotiations end in agreements that force companies to raise the cost of goods and services, discourage investment and shrink their workforce, sending the very people unions CLAIM to protect to the unemployment lines.
The average worker is on to you Joe. No longer can you con them into believing your anti business rhetoric that you and your clan have been parroting for 80 years. You and your union clan use the promise of higher wages, increased benefits and job protections to garner support. Problem is the current facts do not support any of your claims Joe. Nominal personal income has grown at a rate of 60% more in right to work states than in union states from 1990-2011. These same states showed a 45% gain in total employment versus union states. Non union manufacturing jobs grew at a rate of 7% in the last 2 years while unionized manufacturing jobs dropped 5%.
Joe, these gains result from allowing employers the flexibility to make decisions that benefit BOTH the employee and the consumer as you union folks have forgotten about the consumer. This allows them to set prices based on the MARKETPLACE, and as business grows, so does their ability to pay higher wages and provide benefits. Look around Joe, this is happening everywhere in right to work states as your union states are rust buckets now.
But of course as key industry sectors grow in right to work states unions are eager to expand their presence. Businesses in right to work states that are committed to free market principles, something you know nothing about Joe, realize there can be and are successful relationships with certain unions and I support that right.
That right is comprised however, when union organizers such as the UAW attempt street gang thug tactics such as threatening to deny a unionization vote by secret ballot. You and your thug buddies want to have open ballots so you can slash the tires of those that oppose you and then beat them up. Your claims of "fair elections" are bogus to the core and disingenuous. All you are after are power grabs by your unions claiming to be standing up for the rights of employees.
The clear fact is as the numbers are in, an expanded union presence in any state will cost jobs, not create them.

So when a car company or any company moves offshore and ends up with hourly wages 1/10 of what american wages were, does that car or product go down in price? Maybe not 1/0 but 1/5?. 1/4? No prices stay the same. Who benefits?

awww Joe Joe Joe.. You silly socialists dont have memories.. Remember back to the 70s and 80s when you and Noam Chomsky and all the other leftists were bitchin about how UNFAIR it was that the US only had 15% of the worlds population, but controlled 35% of the world's wealth? And that the only fix imaginable was to REDISTRIBUTE THAT WEALTH in a more equitable fashion??

You won that one Joe.. THAT'S re-distribution.. The stuff you CRAVE. China now has a Middle Class. Vietnam is no longer a craphole of poverty and subsistence. You don't LIKE being on the wrong side of re-distribution.. That's you're problem here.

But still you're drinking the Kool-Aid and blaming everyone but yourselves for the decline of the American standard of living. What did free traders TELL YOU 30 years about Globalization? That America could not survive making tube socks and basketballs anymore? That we would have to shift our game to the HARD STUFF, like robotics, and biotech, and materials and science?

Didn't happen.. Our bad.. We suck at listening..

 

[JoeB131]

[

Lemme 'splain sumtin to ya.. Your crap has been patiently tolerated and disposed of quite easily in the past.. But folks like me who HAD their professional orgs OUTLAWED from offering group insurance just ain't got any patience left for liars and political suck-ups..

The 20,000 Veterinarians whose group was also outlawed and MY group and hundreds of other professional organization plans for self-employed offered TOP NOTCH health plans. We are just being herded into the exchanges because this redistribution plan needs some deep pockets in the pool. Had NOTHING to do with quality of the plans.

OTH --- YOUR plan --- is offering CERTIFIABLY CRAPPY insurance on the Fed/state exchanges to the POOREST AND MOST VULNERABLE folks.. For those who can barely afford to comply with the law --- the lowest premium plans offer $6K deductibles and only 50% coverage for serious illness.. Are you TRYING to bankrupt the working poor? SURE LOOKS LIKE IT COMRADE...

So nobody's really got any tolerance left at this point for your act.. If you were smart enough to actually debate anything -- you'd be my opponent. But since you're not -- you're simply at this point my enemy....

Yeah, guy, because you are coming off as soooo rational.

It was the "self-employed" plans that had all the problems to start with...