NYT: Trump got 5 Draft deferments (Four for College, One for Bad Feet)

[nat4900]

Gee, I thought that Trump got a deferment because of small hands......

 

[Juan de Fuca]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

 

[Neotrotsky]

What is funny about this is that a simple X Ray could prove Trump innocent or guilty, because the evidence of bone spurs remains. They don't disappear and have to be surgically removed. Donald Trump got his medical deferment but then went on to play three different sports in college.

So, if Donald Trump wants to bring an end to this all he has to do is have that X Ray done and then show the world that he is either innocent of all charges and a stand up guy or he was a draft evader, proving to the world he is a 24kt coward.

OH, damn, are you calling our military liars? Those bone spurs HAVE to be confirmed by the draft board.

[Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.]

"Dear Colonel Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.

As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton"

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

One suspects the OP of this thread was hoping it go
different

 

[DarkFury]

What is funny about this is that a simple X Ray could prove Trump innocent or guilty, because the evidence of bone spurs remains. They don't disappear and have to be surgically removed. Donald Trump got his medical deferment but then went on to play three different sports in college.

So, if Donald Trump wants to bring an end to this all he has to do is have that X Ray done and then show the world that he is either innocent of all charges and a stand up guy or he was a draft evader, proving to the world he is a 24kt coward.

OH, damn, are you calling our military liars? Those bone spurs HAVE to be confirmed by the draft board.

DUH, medical experts confirm bone spurs, the draft board doesn't have the medical qualifications to do that.

The draft board has doctors that DO exams.

 

[Neotrotsky]

NYT: Trump got 5 Draft deferments (Four for College, One for Bad Feet)

"new", sure

and
Queen Hillary let 4 Americans die in Benghazi
and got a lighter sentence for a rapist of a 12 year old girl
and laughed about it

lets call it even

No your hyped up lies have been proven wrong countless times.

Lie
never comrade - I leave that to Queen Hillary

Here is the woman you want to make Queen

 

[buckeye45_73]

Gee, I thought that Trump got a deferment because of small hands......

He got a deferment for that big dick...all the gays in the military didn't think they could handle it.

 

[DarkFury]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

He does NOT have to prove it idiot. Demand the draft records under the FOIA and look for your damn self idiot.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

What is funny about this is that a simple X Ray could prove Trump innocent or guilty, because the evidence of bone spurs remains. They don't disappear and have to be surgically removed. Donald Trump got his medical deferment but then went on to play three different sports in college.

So, if Donald Trump wants to bring an end to this all he has to do is have that X Ray done and then show the world that he is either innocent of all charges and a stand up guy or he was a draft evader, proving to the world he is a 24kt coward.

OH, damn, are you calling our military liars? Those bone spurs HAVE to be confirmed by the draft board.

DUH, medical experts confirm bone spurs, the draft board doesn't have the medical qualifications to do that.

The draft board has doctors that DO exams.

Trump got his personal doctor to verify his claim. The draft board approved it and no draft board I ever heard of had doctors on staff.

 

[Juan de Fuca]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

He does NOT have to prove it idiot. Demand the draft records under the FOIA and look for your damn self idiot.

The evidence of bone spurs will be shown on a current X Ray, they don't disappear period and you do not play three sports with bone spurs. I don't have to look up anything and even if I did, medical files have to be released with the permission of the owner. HIPPAA remember?

 

[DarkFury]

What is funny about this is that a simple X Ray could prove Trump innocent or guilty, because the evidence of bone spurs remains. They don't disappear and have to be surgically removed. Donald Trump got his medical deferment but then went on to play three different sports in college.

So, if Donald Trump wants to bring an end to this all he has to do is have that X Ray done and then show the world that he is either innocent of all charges and a stand up guy or he was a draft evader, proving to the world he is a 24kt coward.

OH, damn, are you calling our military liars? Those bone spurs HAVE to be confirmed by the draft board.

[Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.]

"Dear Colonel Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.

As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton"

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

One suspects the OP of this thread was hoping it go
different

I think the liberals forget that famous muslim who just died and he refused to go. And he had NO deferment. Muhamed .........?

 

[OKTexas]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

How about you prove he had them in the first place, or it has a damned thing to do with what I said. I seriously doubt you were even alive when the draft ended or even served one day in the military.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

A deferment is not dodging the draft. Thread fail in the OP.

 

[DarkFury]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

He does NOT have to prove it idiot. Demand the draft records under the FOIA and look for your damn self idiot.

The evidence of bone spurs will be shown on a current X Ray, they don't disappear period and you do not play three sports with bone spurs. I don't have to look up anything and even if I did, medical files have to be released with the permission of the owner. HIPPAA remember?

HIPPA does not cover government files. 27 years as an RPT here.

 

[BULLDOG]

[Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.]

"Dear Colonel Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.

As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton"

The difference being that Clinton had thoroughly studied the implications, causes, and prosecution of the war, and made a moral decision about it. Trump did none of those things. He was rich, and just didn't want to bother with it.

 

[Spare_change]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

Him ... and 500,000 others. Those who didn't ran away.

 

[Spare_change]

[Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.]

"Dear Colonel Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.

As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.

After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton"

The difference being that Clinton had thoroughly studied the implications, causes, and prosecution of the war, and made a moral decision about it. Trump did none of those things. He was rich, and just didn't want to bother with it.

They are both INCAPABLE of making a moral decision ... the examples are legion.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Trump is actually a walking medical miracle! The bone spurs on his feet disappeared without surgery after he was no longer threatened by the draft. I think that it might have had something to do with divine intervention through Oral Roberts....

More lib ignorance? My wife had bone spurs on her feet and suffered for years. Then they went away.

 

[Vigilante]

What is funny about this is that a simple X Ray could prove Trump innocent or guilty, because the evidence of bone spurs remains. They don't disappear and have to be surgically removed. Donald Trump got his medical deferment but then went on to play three different sports in college.

So, if Donald Trump wants to bring an end to this all he has to do is have that X Ray done and then show the world that he is either innocent of all charges and a stand up guy or he was a draft evader, proving to the world he is a 24kt coward.

OH, damn, are you calling our military liars? Those bone spurs HAVE to be confirmed by the draft board.

DUH, medical experts confirm bone spurs, the draft board doesn't have the medical qualifications to do that.

The draft board has doctors that DO exams.

Trump got his personal doctor to verify his claim. The draft board approved it and no draft board I ever heard of had doctors on staff.

Hell, Juan DeFucka... you lied the first time you came into USMB telling me you were in Vietnam, but looking at your bio showed you born in 1973....after the war....and you expect people to take you seriously?

 

[DarkFury]

A new piece examines how Donald Trump dodged the Vietnam War via deferments and a booboo on his foot, yet he still has the balls to criticize parents of fallen soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?smid=tw-share

So Trump got college deferments just like millions of Americans did, and? And the asshole that attacked Trump is a muslim activist and a lawyer specializing in bringing more muslims into the country. Trumps policies would hurt his business so he wasn't just some grieving father, he has a financial conflict of interest with Trumps proposals.

And the proof is in the pudding. Show the world the evidence that he had the bone spurs removed. They don't disappear.

How about you prove he had them in the first place, or it has a damned thing to do with what I said. I seriously doubt you were even alive when the draft ended or even served one day in the military.

If I recall correctly the draft ended in 73 but you were still expected to register. I think.

 

[yiostheoy]

At least he did not lie to get a deferment and then skip the country like Bill Clinton.

Is Bill Clinton running for a 3rd Term now?

I am guessing not.

So your mind is starting to wander as you get old and deal with Alzheimers, Gunny.

STAY ON POINT.