Obama Campaign Ad....A lie.

[Listening]

Yeah it's wrong to hold romney accountable for job losses that occured at a company that he ran for 6 years but it's ok to blame obama for job losses that occured before he was president. LOL

So, does he get credit for the 4,000 jobs he created as cited in the article on Steel Dynamics ?

Let's see how far this door swings in the other direction.

Well based on your argument that romney deserved no blame for losses that occured after he left in 1999 (your claim) then how can you give him credit for the positives that occured at a company after he left bain and after bain sold it's stake in the company?

BTW how does you sidestep address the hypocrisy that I pointed out?

I don't recall saying he deserved no blame. But since the ad did nothing to address why the company went under (and loading it with debt is a stupid response.....nobody would touch the place....they were lucky to get anyone to try in the first place). As Ratner points out....mabye there was no blame. They tried on behalf of GST. Are you that easily suckered in by a useless ad ?

I know someone who provided engineering for the place in the mid 1990's. He said he was scared the whole place was going to fall in on him.

One thing that was a RUMOR (notice I know the difference) is that the place required a butt-laod of money to get it into compliance with the EPA regulations. If that is true (and that is where Bain spent their money.....), that would be an example of corporate raiding at it's worst. :Lol:

 

[drsmith1072]

Here is a Romney counter:

Steel Dynamics Chairman Hails Romney, Bain Capital For Early Funding, Thousands Of Jobs - Investors.com

Since emerging as the Republican front-runner, Mitt Romney has been pilloried as a corporate raider and greedy destroyer of working-class jobs because he once headed private equity firm Bain Capital.

A new video by a political action committee with ties to rival presidential candidate Newt Gingrich portrays Romney as someone who plundered companies for their assets, left them in debt and ruined countless lives of ordinary Americans.

That's not the view at Fort Wayne, Ind.-based Steel Dynamics (STLD), where Bain invested just as the company was getting off the ground in 1994. Today, Steel Dynamics is the fifth-largest U.S. steel maker, employing 6,437 workers, according to Chairman and just-retired CEO Keith Busse.

That number includes about 4,000 new jobs, with the rest coming via acquisitions.

But it goes further than that, Busse says. For every steel worker directly employed, there are three or four jobs created by a network of suppliers. He estimates the total employment base as the result of Steel Dynamics' success at around 25,000.

*******************************

Obama is desperate.

He's going to take a failed presidency and disgrace himself even further by muckraking the campaign.

He can't leave soon enough.

So you post a link talking about a company whose growth continued AFTER bain sold it's stake in the company in 2000 and despite the fact that you are arguing that romney deserves no blame for the negatives that occured AFTER he left bain in 1999 you are now trying to give him credit for the positive things that occured after he left??

Do you even see the hypocrisy?

So they didn't grow between 1994 and 2000 ? I don't recall reading that. Wow...Bain hung onto a dead asset for six years ?

What I see is someone who looks like a zealot.

I know that you are going to spin this and say that you are just asking questions but based on how you followed it up with an accusation based on those questions that make false assumptions about my positions I am going to have to ask you when and where I said anything of the kind?

Steel Dynamics was a start up. It was in the steel sector (from what I know) and Bain helped get it going. I am still waiting to see if you answer my question about whether or not this looks like a corporate raid ? You haven't yet.

Hadn't got to it by the time you posted this but did respond. furthermore, what does the growth of a company after romney left bain and after bain sold it's interest in the company have to do with the debate? According to your logic romney deserves no blame for things that occured AFTER he left so why should he deserve the credit?

GST was in pile of hurt when Bain showed up. People were asking "Who did they sucker into investing in that pile of crap ?"

100 million or more (corporate raiding....I know), it got shut down.

So they invested in a downtrodden but not out company and left it in shambles while taking home a profit and you think that isn't an example of corporate raiding?? LOL

Here is an Obama worshipper saying the ad is unfair. He puts it in good perspective (something he isn't usually that good at).

Former Obama Car Czar Calls Romney Attack Ad "Unfair" | RealClearPolitics

On "Morning Joe" today, former Obama "car czar" Steve Rattner denounced a new campaign ad that attacks Mitt Romney for business decisions he made during his tenure at Bain Capital.

Specifically, the ad targets Romney and Bain Capital for the private equity firm's decision to acquire GST Steel and the jobs that were lost under their control.

Rattner called the ad "unfair" and defended Romney's decision at Bain Capital. Rattner says Romney's job was to make profits for the firm's investors, not save jobs.

"I think the ad is unfair. Mitt Romney made a mistake ever talking about the fact that he created 100,000 jobs. Bain Capital’s responsibility was not to create 100,000 jobs or some other number. It was to create profits for his investors, most of whom were pension funds, endowments and foundations. It did it superbly, acting within the rules and acting very responsibly and was a leading firm," Ratner said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" on Monday.

"So I do think to pick out an example of somebody who lost their job unfortunately, this is part of capitalism, this is part of life. And I don’t think there’s anything Bain Capital did that they need to be embarrassed about," he said.

Funny how you refer to him as an obama worshipper even though he disagrees with the ad. LOL you tried to call me a zealot.

BTW what does this sidetrack have to do with the discussion? WHy should i care what he or anyone else says? I am not a lemming and posting his comments has nothing to do with what I am saying but thatnk for the sidestep.

 

[drsmith1072]

So, does he get credit for the 4,000 jobs he created as cited in the article on Steel Dynamics ?

Let's see how far this door swings in the other direction.

Well based on your argument that romney deserved no blame for losses that occured after he left in 1999 (your claim) then how can you give him credit for the positives that occured at a company after he left bain and after bain sold it's stake in the company?

BTW how does you sidestep address the hypocrisy that I pointed out?

Please show me where there were no positives at Steel Dynamics during his time there.

ok show me when i made that claim and what that has to do with what I said.

And then explain how they held a losing asset for six years. Corporate raiders don't wait six months, much less six years.

so you are claiming that it was going downhill even after bain took control? Then how did they leave with a profit?

And you didn't address the 100 million they invested in GST.

yeah I did you just haven't gotten to my response yet. Wow, the fact that you expect everyone to respooind instantly show that you are beyond delusional. I am responding to posts as I get to them and if you could read you could tell that I hadn't gotted to your bs question about the $100 million investment that you said was for upgrades even as you said the compnay was outdated. Yes they invested that much and walked away with a multi million dollar profit. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You are a zealot.

says the wackjob who expects instant responses as she contradicts their own arguments becuase they are so zealous in their attempts to spin this issue.

 

[Listening]

So they invested in a downtrodden but not out company and left it in shambles while taking home a profit and you think that isn't an example of corporate raiding?? LOL

The company was on it's way out.

100 million and held onto the company for how long.

You call that corporate raiding ?

You are a zealot. Or a moron.

 

[The T]

So they invested in a downtrodden but not out company and left it in shambles while taking home a profit and you think that isn't an example of corporate raiding?? LOL

The company was on it's way out.

100 million and held onto the company for how long.

You call that corporate raiding ?

You are a zealot. Or a moron.

Both?

 

[drsmith1072]

Are you disputing Bain's claim they spent 100 million in upgrades....or is that your idea of corporate raid ?

Do you really think that Bain considered this a success compared to what they would have making had the plant been profitable ?

I live in this area and have for a long time. This mill has been on the bubble for decades. It was outdated and has real union issues (as cited in the article in the OP). Bain took a chance. That's what they do.

It's to bad the federal government didn't bail them out like they did GM.

Romney might have made a whole lot more of your money.

Bain made a profit off of that investment while the company went under. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

If the investment was used to buy new equipment and upgrades how was it outdated? Do you often counter your own arguments?

What are you talking about ?

The plant was a sewer and a bad investment. Everyone here knew it.

It was an ancient plant when they bought it. It was a gamble. They put a lot of money into it.

The company went under, in large part because of the postition of steel in general.

The unions did not help a thing.

Then what upgrades was the $100 million spent on? You claim it was a sewer even as you claim they spent $100 million in upgrades so which is it?

the fact is that it went under on bians watch and they made a profit after buying a "sewer" and you still think that isn't considered raiding? LOL

your contrdictory statements have no negative bearing on me.

 

[Sallow]

Left?

What the heck does that mean, left?

Is it the type of "leaving" that Cheney did at Halliburton?



You guys are rich..

Bat Puckey.....

You don't get that detail unless you roll out GTS's financial's in the 30 second add.

We're rich ?

Somehow this ad plays directly to emotion while providing no real information at all.

Look in the mirror.

The "real" information is this.

Romney is unconcerned with the trials and tribulations of people making less then a 100 million a year.

He doesn't really care about America in particular..unless it fills his wallet.

He's also sort of bored now..and needs something to do.

Capturing the souls of Jews for Mormonism..didn't seem to cut it.

 

[Listening]

Bain made a profit off of that investment while the company went under. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

If the investment was used to buy new equipment and upgrades how was it outdated? Do you often counter your own arguments?

What are you talking about ?

The plant was a sewer and a bad investment. Everyone here knew it.

It was an ancient plant when they bought it. It was a gamble. They put a lot of money into it.

The company went under, in large part because of the postition of steel in general.

The unions did not help a thing.

Then what upgrades was the $100 million spent on? You claim it was a sewer even as you claim they spent $100 million in upgrades so which is it?

the fact is that it went under on bians watch and they made a profit after buying a "sewer" and you still think that isn't considered raiding? LOL

your contrdictory statements have no negative bearing on me.

Are you acting stupid on purpose ?

 

[Listening]

Left?

What the heck does that mean, left?

Is it the type of "leaving" that Cheney did at Halliburton?



You guys are rich..

Bat Puckey.....

You don't get that detail unless you roll out GTS's financial's in the 30 second add.

We're rich ?

Somehow this ad plays directly to emotion while providing no real information at all.

Look in the mirror.

The "real" information is this.

Romney is unconcerned with the trials and tribulations of people making less then a 100 million a year.

He doesn't really care about America in particular..unless it fills his wallet.

He's also sort of bored now..and needs something to do.

Capturing the souls of Jews for Mormonism..didn't seem to cut it.

Well thought out, sourced, and connected.

 

[Claudette]

Seems to me that if Bain were a raider they would have bought it. Parced it out. Made money and left.

Investing 100 million into a failing company doesn't sound like any kind of a smart raider to me.

Common Sense 101.

 

[The T]

Seems to me that if Bain were a raider they would have bought it. Parced it out. Made money and left.

Investing 100 million into a failing company doesn't sound like any kind of a smart raider to me.

Common Sense 101.

They invested...it didn't work out...so goes the market.

 

[The T]

Left?

What the heck does that mean, left?

Is it the type of "leaving" that Cheney did at Halliburton?



You guys are rich..

Bat Puckey.....

You don't get that detail unless you roll out GTS's financial's in the 30 second add.

We're rich ?

Somehow this ad plays directly to emotion while providing no real information at all.

Look in the mirror.

The "real" information is this.

Romney is unconcerned with the trials and tribulations of people making less then a 100 million a year.

He doesn't really care about America in particular..unless it fills his wallet.

He's also sort of bored now..and needs something to do.

Capturing the souls of Jews for Mormonism..didn't seem to cut it.

Fully vested in the Wealth Envy lie?

 

[drsmith1072]

So, does he get credit for the 4,000 jobs he created as cited in the article on Steel Dynamics ?

Let's see how far this door swings in the other direction.

Well based on your argument that romney deserved no blame for losses that occured after he left in 1999 (your claim) then how can you give him credit for the positives that occured at a company after he left bain and after bain sold it's stake in the company?

BTW how does you sidestep address the hypocrisy that I pointed out?

I don't recall saying he deserved no blame.

for the losses after he left. that was my full statement. The argument of the OP was that romney left bain in 99 but the company went bancrupt after that so it's wrong to blame him for those job losses. So if that is not what you are arguing then what is your point?

But since the ad did nothing to address why the company went under (and loading it with debt is a stupid response.....nobody would touch the place....they were lucky to get anyone to try in the first place).

thanks for the op-ed but the fact remains that bain invested in a company to make it profitable for them even as the comany fell. Seems to be a pretty obvious example of raiding to me.

As Ratner points out....mabye there was no blame. They tried on behalf of GST. Are you that easily suckered in by a useless ad ?

again who cares what someon you refer to as an "obama worshipper" has to say? If he is that bad why do you choose now to put faith in what he says?

I know someone who provided engineering for the place in the mid 1990's. He said he was scared the whole place was going to fall in on him.

sure you do but either way wasn't that when bain was running the place??

One thing that was a RUMOR (notice I know the difference) is that the place required a butt-laod of money to get it into compliance with the EPA regulations. If that is true (and that is where Bain spent their money.....), that would be an example of corporate raiding at it's worst. :Lol:

So you start off by saying it's a "rumor" then use what you admit is "rumor" to argue that bain spent it's investment on your "rumor" because you are desperate to prove your point.

and you call me a zealot? LOL

BTW are you still trying to give romney credit for jobs that were created and progress that occured at steel dynamics AFTER he left bain and AFTER bain sold it's stock in the company?

 

[Sallow]

Bat Puckey.....

You don't get that detail unless you roll out GTS's financial's in the 30 second add.

We're rich ?

Somehow this ad plays directly to emotion while providing no real information at all.

Look in the mirror.

The "real" information is this.

Romney is unconcerned with the trials and tribulations of people making less then a 100 million a year.

He doesn't really care about America in particular..unless it fills his wallet.

He's also sort of bored now..and needs something to do.

Capturing the souls of Jews for Mormonism..didn't seem to cut it.

Well thought out, sourced, and connected.

Connected? Connected with what?

You know..Romney started out saying he created 100K jobs. That was challenged. Now that claim has been widdled down to 1000s..

He was a corporate raider. And when he wasn't doing that..he was lobbying for government funding for his private profit. Over and over again.

And when I say he doesn't care about America in general..historically..that's correct. He went to France..while America was fighting in Vietnam. And not before protesting in favor of that war. But he's just following the behavior of his father..who didn't join the military..and his grandfather..who actually was living in Mexico with his five wives.

Is he a "bad" guy? Naw..he's a greedy CEO. Sometimes..and in some places..they are useful.

Just not in government, running things.

 

[Dick Tuck]

thanks for incoherent logic

need a lesson?

Yeah it's wrong to hold romney accountable for job losses that occured at a company that he ran for 6 years but it's ok to blame obama for job losses that occured before he was president. LOL

So, does he get credit for the 4,000 jobs he created as cited in the article on Steel Dynamics ?

Let's see how far this door swings in the other direction.

Bain didn't have a majority interest in steel dynamics, so were unable to raid its pension fun. Bain did have a majority interest in GST, and were able to saddle it with unbearable debt, while sucking the life out of it.

 

[Listening]

Seems to me that if Bain were a raider they would have bought it. Parced it out. Made money and left.

Investing 100 million into a failing company doesn't sound like any kind of a smart raider to me.

Common Sense 101.

They invested...it didn't work out...so goes the market.

I guess it's Bain's fault that the steel industry went on hard times.

They chose to cash out and let the company go bankrupt. Good money after bad.

No wonder Obama has us in such a mess.

 

[drsmith1072]

So they invested in a downtrodden but not out company and left it in shambles while taking home a profit and you think that isn't an example of corporate raiding?? LOL

.

Aw poor listening is too busy ranting to comment on the entire content of my post. Seems to me that you need to listen more and rant less.

You refuse to respond to my content as you omit it out of cowardice and dishonesty then why should i offer you the courtesy of responding to your posts?

 

[drsmith1072]

What are you talking about ?

The plant was a sewer and a bad investment. Everyone here knew it.

It was an ancient plant when they bought it. It was a gamble. They put a lot of money into it.

The company went under, in large part because of the postition of steel in general.

The unions did not help a thing.

Then what upgrades was the $100 million spent on? You claim it was a sewer even as you claim they spent $100 million in upgrades so which is it?

the fact is that it went under on bians watch and they made a profit after buying a "sewer" and you still think that isn't considered raiding? LOL

your contrdictory statements have no negative bearing on me.

Are you acting stupid on purpose ?

funny how when their arguments are shown to be flawed and contradictory they go to the old faithful fallback of attacking the messenger beuase they can't counter the message.

Is that why you omitted about 90% of my previous post? Your ineptitude and contradictions are on you and do not reflect on me negatively or otherwise. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

Seems to me that if Bain were a raider they would have bought it. Parced it out. Made money and left.

Investing 100 million into a failing company doesn't sound like any kind of a smart raider to me.

Common Sense 101.

Investing 100 million and then running a company into the ground while making a profit is raiding no matter how long it took and whether it is smart or not should reflect on the person making the choice to invest. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

Seems to me that if Bain were a raider they would have bought it. Parced it out. Made money and left.

Investing 100 million into a failing company doesn't sound like any kind of a smart raider to me.

Common Sense 101.

They invested...it didn't work out...so goes the market.

I guess it's Bain's fault that the steel industry went on hard times.

They chose to cash out and let the company go bankrupt. Good money after bad.

No wonder Obama has us in such a mess.

So obama should just let the country fail and move on to another country while he profits at the country's expence? LOL What are you trying to say?