Obama Drone Attacks Legal/Moral?...

So, since we no longer have the concept of Enemy Combatant, don't we have to Mirandize the newly minted US Citizen?

They aren't newly minted US Citizens, they merely fall under the jurisdiction of the U.S. and with that automatically comes the rights afforded by the Constitution. If you have a problem with this, take it up with the framers of the Constitution.

We only have to Mirandize them if we are interrogating them to gain evidence to be used against them in a criminal prosecution. Many people misunderstand the Miranda warning laws because their knowledge of law comes from serialized T.V. There would be nothing illegal or improper about interrogating a detainee about information they may have in relation to other terrorists, plots, etc. and only Mirandizing them once we switch to the subject of their personal role and culpability in criminal terrorism.

Given the broad scope of the "material aid to terrorism" charge, we can utilize an abundance of evidence beyond a confession to successfully prosecute someone for terrorism. If they're captured on a battlefield engaged against U.S. troops or have documented financial or material ties to terrorism, that alone is sufficient, a confession unnecessary, and in that case would never need to Mirandize them at all. The Miranda warning applies only to self-incriminating evidence gathered during interrogation.

Wait. It is illegal for the Military to arrest American citizens except in VERY limited places and fashions. So I guess we should just pull our troops out and send in brigades of Cops.

There is a REASON this is called a WAR and not a POLICE action.

This is a complete non sequitir. They're not American citizens just because the Constitution applies to them. Capturing someone in a foreign country engaged in hostility against us is absolutely the right and role of the military.

Our war was against the nations of Iraq and Afghanistan, both ended swiftly. We are now essentially an occupying force policing the nation - attempting to maintain order, capture or kill terrorists, establish government. This is by no means a traditional "war" any longer.

The opposition to the War in Iraq and Afghanistan by the left is for the most part a put on. They had nothing else to bash Bush about so that worked for them. This is proven by the fact that as soon as Bush was out of the picture the press has been silent, the left has been silent on the whole war issue.

Not by the left. The left by definition is opposed to offensive foreign wars. What is true, disheartening, pathetic and has been revealed since Obama took office and is evident in this thread, is that many partisan democrats were only paying lip service to opposing the war in order to bash Bush. If you opposed a policy under Bush you now support under Obama, you're a dishonest hypocrite, plain and simple.

The left has by no means been silent on the wars, and every major anti-war organization active during the Bush era remains active today (I know because I'm a part of many of them). Protests continue, strong opposition remains. You're right about the press though, because the picture painted by the corporate media of Obama is that he's not a hawk despite his policies, anti-war demonstrators and advocates don't get half the press coverage they did under Bush.

And what did happen to the "Anti-War" crowd? They seem to be MIA these days. Just not hearing much from them on this and other War-related issues. Where did they all go?

They are still active and engaged, but while they were marginalized for most of the Bush years and only gained some attention once his popularity declined across the board, they are almost totally marginalized now.

Also, the insincere democrats who pretended to be anti-war have left the movement, so their numbers are smaller but more dedicated.
 
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Quentin here's the big difference. Not speaking of Afghanistan here since I supported that. And there wasn't much criticism of going after the people that really attacked us

Now move onto Iraq, which many people protested and didnt' want, nor think it was justified. Bush started the war in Iraq, he overthrew the gov't in place keeping the people in check (regardless of his methods, not saying Saddam was a good guy or anything). But once that happened, most of us realize (at least one possessing common sense) that pulling out of Iraq without a gov't in place, would be disastrous. So Bush is the BLAME fully for Iraq, since he invaded them. After it was started, I realized that it must be finished. We can't pull out now and leave a power vaccuum and civil war in Iraq, that would be DISASTROUS. So I"m not going to give Obama crap for not pulling the troops out. He didn'bt start the war.

You can spin it anyway you want about hypocrisy, but it doesn't hold water, since Obama inherited the wars and must see it through. I'll criticize anybody left or right that think we should just pull out and leave Iraq in shambles.
 
Indeed it is s0n............in the 21st century, thats the way its going to be. Amen to that!!!

I support a policy that educates the people in these area's that if they choose to be limpwristers around the terror bad guys, they run the high risk of getting their face blown off. I do belive the American government should do what it can to warn civilians of sympathizing with terrorists. The implication is..............clearly..........that the people need to grow some balls and stand up to the radicals no matter the cost. THATS just the way it is...............


"So it is the civilians fault that Hamas or Hizbollah hide amongst them?"


Is anybody else getting sick and tired of the wet handshake incoherent statments by the k00ks on the left ( see above statement) All these people know how to do is point out the obvious and offer zero solutions!!! Fcukking zero............so we should do nothing to protect ourselves because moderate Islam doesnt have the balls to stand up to the radicals??? Sorry.............fcukk that............doesnt cut it anymore. Not in the 21st century.

Its statements like the one above that brings rise to bumper stickers that say, "Liberalism is a mental disorder!!" Just a profound inability to connect the dots!!!!!!!!!!:funnyface::funnyface::eusa_dance:

And you're just another neocon whackjob warmonger who tries to instill western values, mores and morals on countries that don't want your input

No wonder the arabs hate Americans...

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you like Arabs dictating to you how you should run your country, or support Mexico's illegal immigration into your country..

What do you mean protect yourselves? Why are the Islamist morons targetting you in the first place?

The dots are easy to connect, unfortunately there are too many Brainless Wonders like you who wouldn't have a clue where to start...
 
getting off topic, but I criticize Israel for doing the same things. terrorist attack, they respond by blowing up a building or block, killing innocent Palestinians. Fueling their anger, giving the terrorist a sympathetic ear amongst the palestinians. Anybody here would do the same if they had their house destroyed and members killed by another country. THey would be furious with those people and claim terrorism. And how has that worked for the situation? Nothing, retaliation after retaliation, and it never ends, nor appears it will end.
 
Can Drone attacks really be classified as "collateral damage?" They are directly targeting an individual and his family. Drones don't seem to distinguish whether the man's family is present or not. Gets a little complicated.
Are you under the impression that a drone attack is an unguided attack? You do realize that drones are being controlled remotely?
 
Indeed it is s0n............in the 21st century, thats the way its going to be. Amen to that!!!

I support a policy that educates the people in these area's that if they choose to be limpwristers around the terror bad guys, they run the high risk of getting their face blown off. I do belive the American government should do what it can to warn civilians of sympathizing with terrorists. The implication is..............clearly..........that the people need to grow some balls and stand up to the radicals no matter the cost. THATS just the way it is...............


"So it is the civilians fault that Hamas or Hizbollah hide amongst them?"


Is anybody else getting sick and tired of the wet handshake incoherent statments by the k00ks on the left ( see above statement) All these people know how to do is point out the obvious and offer zero solutions!!! Fcukking zero............so we should do nothing to protect ourselves because moderate Islam doesnt have the balls to stand up to the radicals??? Sorry.............fcukk that............doesnt cut it anymore. Not in the 21st century.

Its statements like the one above that brings rise to bumper stickers that say, "Liberalism is a mental disorder!!" Just a profound inability to connect the dots!!!!!!!!!!:funnyface::funnyface::eusa_dance:

And you're just another neocon whackjob warmonger who tries to instill western values, mores and morals on countries that don't want your input

No wonder the arabs hate Americans...

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you like Arabs dictating to you how you should run your country, or support Mexico's illegal immigration into your country..

What do you mean protect yourselves? Why are the Islamist morons targetting you in the first place?

The dots are easy to connect, unfortunately there are too many Brainless Wonders like you who wouldn't have a clue where to start...
Ah, your just full of shit. As if there is some kind of moral equivalence going on here.
 
..
Ah, your just full of shit. As if there is some kind of moral equivalence going on here.

Huh? Cool....Nice to know that if you're just same average American minding your own business, and you have an arsehole in charge who gets kicked out by an invading force I can go kill your kin and call them collateral damage and you won't mind. You won't have any thoughts of revenge. You won't give two shits.

...nice to know that there are Yanks who think like you. You are a better person than me...

Me? Any body kills my family - 'liberators' or not, I'm gonna kill as many as I can..as are the rest of my family...as are my friends...

You stirred up a hornet's nest..

Oh, and as an aside, of the 30 or so Iraqi Ministry buildings that were in tact after Shock and Awe, the vast majority were looted and burned by the Iraqi's. Only two weren't. Why? Because American troops were guarding them. Which two? The Ministry of Oil and Ministry of Interior....But please, tell me again, this was all about "freeing the Iraqi people" because, you know, I see on here every day how much of a shit right-wing Yanks give for Iraqi civilians - sweet FA...
 
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Quentin here's the big difference. Not speaking of Afghanistan here since I supported that. And there wasn't much criticism of going after the people that really attacked us

Now move onto Iraq, which many people protested and didnt' want, nor think it was justified. Bush started the war in Iraq, he overthrew the gov't in place keeping the people in check (regardless of his methods, not saying Saddam was a good guy or anything). But once that happened, most of us realize (at least one possessing common sense) that pulling out of Iraq without a gov't in place, would be disastrous. So Bush is the BLAME fully for Iraq, since he invaded them. After it was started, I realized that it must be finished. We can't pull out now and leave a power vaccuum and civil war in Iraq, that would be DISASTROUS. So I"m not going to give Obama crap for not pulling the troops out. He didn'bt start the war.

You can spin it anyway you want about hypocrisy, but it doesn't hold water, since Obama inherited the wars and must see it through. I'll criticize anybody left or right that think we should just pull out and leave Iraq in shambles.

This may not stem from hypocrisy the way those democrats cheering on our indiscriminate killing of Afghani and Pakistani civilians does (you strike me as well-intention and sincere), but at best it stems from a central misunderstanding. Namely, that our occupation in either country can bring about a positive outcome and we're staying in order to stabilize the country so we can then leave.

In reality, it is the presence of American troops in sovereign predominately Muslim countries, and the severe destruction and violence to the population of those countries wrought by troop presence and American military action, that creates and substantially increases and fuels the resistance that inevitably will destabilize the country even further. One would be hard pressed to come up with more circular (il)logic than that which we are relying on to remain in Iraq and Afghanistan: We invade and occupy a nation and through the violence of our occupation, which inflicts unimaginable suffering on a great deal of the population and kills hundreds of thousands of civilians, we "radicalize" the people we are occupying until they commit acts of violence against us, then use that violence we've instigated to justify remaining there - and continuing the same Sisyphean cycle. It's a self-licking ice cream cone.

Even Donald Rumsfeld was forced to acknowledge this. As far back as 2004 the Pentagon's Independent Task Force on Afghanistan, Iraq, and Islamic radicalism recognized that the occupation is the source of its own problem and that combating terrorism via troop presence is not only impossible, but counterproductive.

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

That's really worth reading for the insight from top intelligence analysts that comes to exactly the same conclusion those who oppose the war for moral reasons do: using military tactics to attack terrorists results in so many more civilian deaths (and other significant and negative consequences for the civilian population) that it turns many more of those civilians, otherwise uninterested in doing Americans harm, into what we then classify as "terrorists." Here is a brief look at part of their conclusions:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/St2dyc5qWkI/AAAAAAAACLA/yD9Y_TBJbnQ/s400/rumsfeld2.png

The Pentagon's Defense Science Board Task Force said:
"American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing the support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab countries.
Muslims do not ‘hate our freedom,’ but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States.
Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that "freedom is the future for the Middle East" is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the Communist World - but Muslims do not feel this way, they feel oppressed by not enslaved
Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim selfdetermination.


In other words, our presence makes things dramatically worse.

We do not have a positive outcome as a realistic option. Removing our troop presence will likely result in a period of significant instability and strife, unfortunately this is the inevitable result of our occupation and destruction of the country. But remaining there not only doesn't prevent this, it exacerbates the problem by fueling the violent and anti-American elements of the country, expanding their base and number, so that whenever it is we do finally leave, they'll have a stronger and more substantial role in the power grab to follow.

Whatever government we set up in Afghanistan or Iraq will rightly be seen as an illegitimate puppet government by much of the citizens of the country. This is the known price we pay for propping up regimes and nation building. Middle Easterners know of our arranged coup in Iran, they know of the despotic leaders we support in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and throughout the Middle East to secure our financial interests. Understandably, they do not trust us or the governments we help install. The government left in place will not remain long, unless it resorts to an oppressive martial law familiar to the ME and which the U.S. shouldn't support in the first place. We are between a rock and a hard place, but of our two options, full scale withdrawal has less negative consequences than continued occupation. It's an unfortunate scenario and you're right that the blame rests with the Bush Administration, but Obama can and should be rightly faulted for continuing the disastrous policies.

It's also worth nothing that in our recent history, the argument that we have to remain in this foreign country we invaded otherwise it will fall to chaos is exactly the same rationale used for staying in Vietnam for many years after we knew it was, by the government's own estimation, "unwinnable." We all know how that turned out.
 
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Indeed it is s0n............in the 21st century, thats the way its going to be. Amen to that!!!

I support a policy that educates the people in these area's that if they choose to be limpwristers around the terror bad guys, they run the high risk of getting their face blown off. I do belive the American government should do what it can to warn civilians of sympathizing with terrorists. The implication is..............clearly..........that the people need to grow some balls and stand up to the radicals no matter the cost. THATS just the way it is...............


"So it is the civilians fault that Hamas or Hizbollah hide amongst them?"


Is anybody else getting sick and tired of the wet handshake incoherent statments by the k00ks on the left ( see above statement) All these people know how to do is point out the obvious and offer zero solutions!!! Fcukking zero............so we should do nothing to protect ourselves because moderate Islam doesnt have the balls to stand up to the radicals??? Sorry.............fcukk that............doesnt cut it anymore. Not in the 21st century.

Its statements like the one above that brings rise to bumper stickers that say, "Liberalism is a mental disorder!!" Just a profound inability to connect the dots!!!!!!!!!!:funnyface::funnyface::eusa_dance:

And you're just another neocon whackjob warmonger who tries to instill western values, mores and morals on countries that don't want your input

No wonder the arabs hate Americans...

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you like Arabs dictating to you how you should run your country, or support Mexico's illegal immigration into your country..

What do you mean protect yourselves? Why are the Islamist morons targetting you in the first place?

The dots are easy to connect, unfortunately there are too many Brainless Wonders like you who wouldn't have a clue where to start...

:clap2:

That's exactly my point.

Killing terrorists just upsets the ones you just killed.
 
Quentin here's the big difference. Not speaking of Afghanistan here since I supported that. And there wasn't much criticism of going after the people that really attacked us

Now move onto Iraq, which many people protested and didnt' want, nor think it was justified. Bush started the war in Iraq, he overthrew the gov't in place keeping the people in check (regardless of his methods, not saying Saddam was a good guy or anything). But once that happened, most of us realize (at least one possessing common sense) that pulling out of Iraq without a gov't in place, would be disastrous. So Bush is the BLAME fully for Iraq, since he invaded them. After it was started, I realized that it must be finished. We can't pull out now and leave a power vaccuum and civil war in Iraq, that would be DISASTROUS. So I"m not going to give Obama crap for not pulling the troops out. He didn'bt start the war.

You can spin it anyway you want about hypocrisy, but it doesn't hold water, since Obama inherited the wars and must see it through. I'll criticize anybody left or right that think we should just pull out and leave Iraq in shambles.

This may not stem from hypocrisy the way those democrats cheering on our indiscriminate killing of Afghani and Pakistani civilians does (you strike me as well-intention and sincere), but at best it stems from a central misunderstanding. Namely, that our occupation in either country can bring about a positive outcome and we're staying in order to stabilize the country so we can then leave.

In reality, it is the presence of American troops in sovereign predominately Muslim countries, and the severe destruction and violence to the population of those countries wrought by troop presence and American military action, that creates and substantially increases and fuels the resistance that inevitably will destabilize the country even further. One would be hard pressed to come up with more circular (il)logic than that which we are relying on to remain in Iraq and Afghanistan: We invade and occupy a nation and through the violence of our occupation, which inflicts unimaginable suffering on a great deal of the population and kills hundreds of thousands of civilians, we "radicalize" the people we are occupying until they commit acts of violence against us, then use that violence we've instigated to justify remaining there - and continuing the same Sisyphean cycle. It's a self-licking ice cream cone.

Even Donald Rumsfeld was forced to acknowledge this. As far back as 2004 the Pentagon's Independent Task Force on Afghanistan, Iraq, and Islamic radicalism recognized that the occupation is the source of its own problem and that combating terrorism via troop presence is not only impossible, but counterproductive.

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2004-09-Strategic_Communication.pdf

That's really worth reading for the insight from top intelligence analysts that comes to exactly the same conclusion those who oppose the war for moral reasons do: using military tactics to attack terrorists results in so many more civilian deaths (and other significant and negative consequences for the civilian population) that it turns many more of those civilians, otherwise uninterested in doing Americans harm, into what we then classify as "terrorists." Here is a brief look at part of their conclusions:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/St2dyc5qWkI/AAAAAAAACLA/yD9Y_TBJbnQ/s400/rumsfeld2.png

We do not have a positive outcome as a realistic option. Removing our troop presence will likely result in a period of significant instability and strife, unfortunately this is the inevitable result of our occupation and destruction of the country. But remaining there not only doesn't prevent this, it exacerbates the problem by fueling the violent and anti-American elements of the country, expanding their base and number, so that whenever it is we do finally leave, they'll have a stronger and more substantial role in the power grab to follow.

Whatever government we set up in Afghanistan or Iraq will rightly be seen as an illegitimate puppet government by much of the citizens of the country. This is the known price we pay for propping up regimes and nation building. Middle Easterners know of our arranged coup in Iran, they know of the despotic leaders we support in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and throughout the Middle East to secure our financial interests. Understandably, they do not trust us or the governments we help install. The government left in place will not remain long, unless it resorts to an oppressive martial law familiar to the ME and which the U.S. shouldn't support in the first place. We are between a rock and a hard place, but of our two options, full scale withdrawal has less negative consequences than continued occupation. It's an unfortunate scenario and you're right that the blame rests with the Bush Administration, but Obama can and should be rightly faulted for continuing the disastrous policies.

It's also worth nothing that in our recent history, the argument that we have to remain in this foreign country we invaded otherwise it will fall to chaos is exactly the same rationale used for staying in Vietnam for many years after we knew it was, by the government's own estimation, "unwinnable." We all know how that turned out.

. I do agree with your assessment. Seem we are in a lose lose situation.
 
I also agree that we should never do anything to upset terrorists.

That would be unfair and not equitable.

As long as a group threatens the US with terrorism they should completely control our foreign policy.

In fact OBL, should have a cabinet seat to fully represent the terrorist constituency.

After all, terrorists are people too.
 
I also agree that we should never do anything to upset terrorists.

That would be unfair and not equitable.

As long as a group threatens the US with terrorism they should completely control our foreign policy.

In fact OBL, should have a cabinet seat to fully represent the terrorist constituency.

After all, terrorists are people too.


making up what the other side is arguing I see. Nobody is upset if terrorists get killed, its when innocent civilians get killed in the process. It's when we look like the bad guys in the minds of the people we were supposedly there to "liberate", and the world.

I
 
Indeed it is s0n............in the 21st century, thats the way its going to be. Amen to that!!!

I support a policy that educates the people in these area's that if they choose to be limpwristers around the terror bad guys, they run the high risk of getting their face blown off. I do belive the American government should do what it can to warn civilians of sympathizing with terrorists. The implication is..............clearly..........that the people need to grow some balls and stand up to the radicals no matter the cost. THATS just the way it is...............


"So it is the civilians fault that Hamas or Hizbollah hide amongst them?"


Is anybody else getting sick and tired of the wet handshake incoherent statments by the k00ks on the left ( see above statement) All these people know how to do is point out the obvious and offer zero solutions!!! Fcukking zero............so we should do nothing to protect ourselves because moderate Islam doesnt have the balls to stand up to the radicals??? Sorry.............fcukk that............doesnt cut it anymore. Not in the 21st century.

Its statements like the one above that brings rise to bumper stickers that say, "Liberalism is a mental disorder!!" Just a profound inability to connect the dots!!!!!!!!!!:funnyface::funnyface::eusa_dance:

And you're just another neocon whackjob warmonger who tries to instill western values, mores and morals on countries that don't want your input

No wonder the arabs hate Americans...

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you like Arabs dictating to you how you should run your country, or support Mexico's illegal immigration into your country..

What do you mean protect yourselves? Why are the Islamist morons targetting you in the first place?

The dots are easy to connect, unfortunately there are too many Brainless Wonders like you who wouldn't have a clue where to start...

:clap2:

That's exactly my point.

Killing terrorists just upsets the ones you just killed.

That is your point not mine. You killing innocent civilians just causes more to become radicalised.

Guess how many suicide bombs there were in Iraq before the invasion under Saddam..

It's four lettters begins with an 'N' and ends in an 'E'. There is also an 'O' and 'N' in there too. Join the dots....
 
I also agree that we should never do anything to upset terrorists.

That would be unfair and not equitable.

As long as a group threatens the US with terrorism they should completely control our foreign policy.

In fact OBL, should have a cabinet seat to fully represent the terrorist constituency.

After all, terrorists are people too.


making up what the other side is arguing I see. Nobody is upset if terrorists get killed, its when innocent civilians get killed in the process. It's when we look like the bad guys in the minds of the people we were supposedly there to "liberate", and the world.

I

You are absolutely right.

Before killing a terrorist, that terrorist should be properly mirandized. A civilian court should be held. Once found guilty and going through the proper appeals court process, we should ask that terrorist to go in the middle of the desert. We should request that the terrorist found guilty be a jury of his peers have no one around him for 3 miles.

We should then have a drone target the terrorist, and kill him.

Actually I take it back. Suppose he was found guilty, and he was truely innocent? Mistakes happen. You can't go back, once the death penalty is executed (forgive the pun).

In fact, I think we should just leave terrroists alone. If we kill that terrorist or punish him, that would only upset him.

Obviously that terrorist had good reason to target and murder american civilians. It's all america's fault to begin with.

I suggest we should give that terrorist a 2 mile plot of land in Kansas and $50,000/year for the rest of his life.
 
And you're just another neocon whackjob warmonger who tries to instill western values, mores and morals on countries that don't want your input

No wonder the arabs hate Americans...

Put the shoe on the other foot - would you like Arabs dictating to you how you should run your country, or support Mexico's illegal immigration into your country..

What do you mean protect yourselves? Why are the Islamist morons targetting you in the first place?

The dots are easy to connect, unfortunately there are too many Brainless Wonders like you who wouldn't have a clue where to start...

.

That is your point not mine. You killing innocent civilians just causes more to become radicalised.

Guess how many suicide bombs there were in Iraq before the invasion under Saddam..

It's four lettters begins with an 'N' and ends in an 'E'. There is also an 'O' and 'N' in there too. Join the dots....

That's what I keep saying. There was no Al Qaida in Pakistan until Obama decided to kill them with drones. And now they have used this issue for recruiting.

Obama lied, people died.

No blood for oil.
:clap2:

That's exactly my point.

Killing terrorists just upsets the ones you just killed
 
Again, for every one alleged terrorist killed by drone attacks in Pakistan, 69 innocent civilians were killed. This does far more than just "upset" those civilians family and friends, it turns them against Americans. Just as you would turn against the British government if they dropped a bomb on your neighborhood and killed your family because they mistakenly thought there was a terrorist hiding out there.

The vast majority of drones do not kill their targets. 1,510 civilians and only 22 suspected terrorists have been killed by drones in Pakistan since we started using them.

It is simply a lie, a make believe fallacy, to pretend that it is mostly terrorists being killed by these drones or that the outrage from Pakistanis and morally consistent Americans is because terrorists were killed, rather than because an incredibly disproportionate number of civilians were killed.
 
Again, for every one alleged terrorist killed by drone attacks in Pakistan, 69 innocent civilians were killed. This does far more than just "upset" those civilians family and friends, it turns them against Americans. Just as you would turn against the British government if they dropped a bomb on your neighborhood and killed your family because they mistakenly thought there was a terrorist hiding out there.

The vast majority of drones do not kill their targets. 1,510 civilians and only 22 suspected terrorists have been killed by drones in Pakistan since we started using them.

It is simply a lie, a make believe fallacy, to pretend that it is mostly terrorists being killed by these drones or that the outrage from Pakistanis and morally consistent Americans is because terrorists were killed, rather than because an incredibly disproportionate number of civilians were killed.

Exactly my point.

And of course killing terrorists just upsets the ones you just killed.

600 million innocent Pakistinis were killed by these drones.
 
What you have resorted to in the form of "argument" reveals that you don't have a leg to stand on and cannot respond honestly to the legitimate and considerable problem of drone use. You have nothing, so you build exaggerated strawmen and pretend to embody them.
 

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