Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 1

You still can't get around the fact that Barack Obama went before the cameras and condemned President Bush for wanting to raise the debt ceiling calling it irresponsible and lack of leadership and worse.

Most of we conservatives deplored excessive spending and increase of entitlements during the Bush Administration. It is why we allowed the Republicans to lose their majorities in 2006 just as irresponsible management cost Clinton control of Congress in 1994 and just as an irresponsible Barack Obama lost his super majority in Congress and control of the House in 2010.

But how bad was Bush compared to Obama?

In eight Bush years, there was a total increase of 77,000 federal employees. Executive branch employees increased by 53,000 and military personnel increased by 24,000. Almost all of the civilian employee increase was due to the creation of the Department of Homeland Securities in the wake of 9/11.

Obama, through 2011, despite reduced government revenues and severe recession, increased federal workers by 197,000 - 64,000 civilian employees, uniformed military personnel by 133,000.

Now for spending.

It is popular to say that President Bush wiped out a Clinton surplus and in fact a $128 billion dollar surplus was replaced with a $158 billion dollar deficit in the wake of 9/11 and the deep though temporary recession it triggered coupled with increased spending on the War on Terror including Afghanistan.

The Bush Administration increased spending every year from $1.8 trillion in 2001 to $2.9 trillion in 2008.

The average deficit during the Bush years was $250 billion or 2% of the GDP. President Bush’s largest deficit was $458 billion in 2008 when the financial crisis led to the creation of the Troubled Asset Relief Program and several corporate bailouts. The deficits were coming down however, and would likely have been erased in 2008 if the housing bubble had not collapsed. Evenso, the deficit would have been very small that year had Congress, supported by President elect Barack Obama, not voted for TARP that was totally off budget.

During President Obama’s first term, federal outlays increased from $3.5 trillion in 2009 to $3.6 trillion in 2011. The estimated total outlays for 2012 are estimated at $3.8 trillion. In Obama’s first year, the deficit increased by almost a trillion dollars from 2008. Obama has not had a single year in which the deficit was less than a trillion dollars even though revenues had increased to roughly 2008 levels by 2012. Obama’s average deficit was $1.3 trillion during his first three years. This translates into an average deficit that is 9.2 percent of GDP.

Liberals try to lay 2009 economics on Bush, but it was Obama who signed the bills to spend the money, not Bush, so it is blatantly dishonest to say that the 2009 deficit was a Bush deficit. If you go that route, then it has to logically follow that it was Clinton who wiped out his own surplus in 2001.

Both presidents increased the national debt according to statistical data from the U.S. Treasury.

January 20, 2001, when Bush took office, the national debt was $5.7 trillion. When he left office it was $10.6 triillion, and increase of $4.9 trillion over eight years. Inexcusable. Indefensible. No conservative will justify that.

And the liberals condemn him in the most hateful and cruel manner possible and no conservative thinks that it was okay.

On January, 2009, when Obama took office, the national debt was $10.6 trillion. On January 20, 2013, it had incresed to $16.4 trillion, an increase of $5.8 trillion in four years. And we are on track to increase it by that much again in this next four years.

And his worshippers seem to think that is just fine and dandy.

Obama v. Bush on spending, debt and growth of government - Atlanta Conservative | Examiner.com
 
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Raising the debt ceiling is not a spending program, therefore it cannot itself add to the debt.

Only the ability.

Why would the legislature refuse to raise the debt ceiling in order to accommodate the increased debt that the legislature created?

Where's the proposed Republican budget that does not require a debt ceiling increase?

because the republicans fucked up is somehow an excuse for the democrats to also fuck up?

its seems like the GOP is finally recognizing and admitting to the fiscal mess that both parties created and trying to do something to begin to fix it.

why is that somehow wrong?
 
And as an addendum to my previous long-winded post:

THEN:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U]Senator Obama calls Bush "unpatriotic" for adding trillions to debt www.RightFace.us - YouTube[/ame]

Opening and closing remarks of Barack Obama's long-winded discourse denouncing the debt in increase in debt limit on the Senate floor March 2006:

Mr. OBAMA: Mr. President, I rise today to talk about America’s debt problem. The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
[...]
Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.
Read more: Obama Voted Against Debt Ceiling Increase In 2006 - Business Insider
Full transcript of that speech: snopes.com: Obama on the Debt Limit

AND NOW. . . .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqMVrPV-BKw]Obama "regrets" 2006 vote against raising debt ceiling - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffKa5nxtYOU]Obama Dodges Question About His Own Vote Against Raising The Debt Ceiling - YouTube[/ame]

What rings really hollow about him sending his press secretary out to 'regret that 2006 vote' is the content of his speech for that vote. He knows most people won't bother to read the whole speech and therefore all those arguments he made can be declared irrelevent for now.
 
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Raising the debt ceiling is not a spending program, therefore it cannot itself add to the debt.

We seem to have to raise the debt ceiling every year.
This is debt,money already spent that we have to make good on.
And every year it needs to be raised again.
Which seems to me that we have spent more then the year before.

So how can we be that we have not added to the debt?

Am I wrong here?

There's a semantics issue here that everyone is getting worked up over.

Congress and the President control the debt limit. They also control the spending and taxation to pay for the spending.

If they've passed spending/taxation legislation that assures the debt limit will be exceeded in the future, it's their responsibility to either raise the debt limit appropriately,

or pass legislation assuring that the debt limit won't be exceeded.

It is totally inappropriate and irresponsible to fail to do either.

no semantics involved. your leader said it in 2006

"Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit" Barack Hussein Obama
 
You still can't get around the fact that Barack Obama went before the cameras and condemned President Bush for wanting to raise the debt ceiling calling it irresponsible and lack of leadership and worse.

Most of we conservatives deplored excessive spending and increase of entitlements during the Bush Administration. It is why we allowed the Republicans to lose their majorities in 2006 just as irresponsible management cost Clinton control of Congress in 1994 and just as an irresponsible Barack Obama lost his super majority in Congress and control of the House in 2010.

But how bad was Bush compared to Obama?

In eight Bush years, there was a total increase of 77,000 federal employees. Executive branch employees increased by 53,000 and military personnel increased by 24,000. Almost all of the civilian employee increase was due to the creation of the Department of Homeland Securities in the wake of 9/11.

Obama, through 2011, despite reduced government revenues and severe recession, increased federal workers by 197,000 - 64,000 civilian employees, uniformed military personnel by 133,000.

Now for spending.

It is popular to say that President Bush wiped out a Clinton surplus and in fact a $128 billion dollar surplus was replaced with a $158 billion dollar deficit in the wake of 9/11 and the deep though temporary recession it triggered coupled with increased spending on the War on Terror including Afghanistan.

The Bush Administration increased spending every year from $1.8 trillion in 2001 to $2.9 trillion in 2008.

The average deficit during the Bush years was $250 billion or 2% of the GDP. President Bush’s largest deficit was $458 billion in 2008 when the financial crisis led to the creation of the Troubled Asset Relief Program and several corporate bailouts. The deficits were coming down however, and would likely have been erased in 2008 if the housing bubble had not collapsed. Evenso, the deficit would have been very small that year had Congress, supported by President elect Barack Obama, not voted for TARP that was totally off budget.

During President Obama’s first term, federal outlays increased from $3.5 trillion in 2009 to $3.6 trillion in 2011. The estimated total outlays for 2012 are estimated at $3.8 trillion. In Obama’s first year, the deficit increased by almost a trillion dollars from 2008. Obama has not had a single year in which the deficit was less than a trillion dollars even though revenues had increased to roughly 2008 levels by 2012. Obama’s average deficit was $1.3 trillion during his first three years. This translates into an average deficit that is 9.2 percent of GDP.

Liberals try to lay 2009 economics on Bush, but it was Obama who signed the bills to spend the money, not Bush, so it is blatantly dishonest to say that the 2009 deficit was a Bush deficit. If you go that route, then it has to logically follow that it was Clinton who wiped out his own surplus in 2001.

Both presidents increased the national debt according to statistical data from the U.S. Treasury.

January 20, 2001, when Bush took office, the national debt was $5.7 trillion. When he left office it was $10.6 triillion, and increase of $4.9 trillion over eight years. Inexcusable. Indefensible. No conservative will justify that.

And the liberals condemn him in the most hateful and cruel manner possible and no conservative thinks that it was okay.

On January, 2009, when Obama took office, the national debt was $10.6 trillion. On January 20, 2013, it had incresed to $16.4 trillion, an increase of $5.8 trillion in four years. And we are on track to increase it by that much again in this next four years.

And his worshippers seem to think that is just fine and dandy.

Obama v. Bush on spending, debt and growth of government - Atlanta Conservative | Examiner.com

Further commentary. While I in no way defend President Bush on the spending he authorized nor on his execution of the war in Iraq or on his entitlement programs or his energy/environmental policies or NCLB or his stance on illegal immigration, he gets an unfair bad rap on his management of the economy. Mind you in a review of his track record up there, his administration had to deal with the aftermath of 9/11, with a Katrina that no president has ever had to deal with on that magnitude, and with the catastrophic housing bubble crash which was less his fault than the fault of many others. And still he was creating substantial jobs, overcoming recession, and bringing down deficits in the wake of 9/11 and Katrina and I am convinced he would have done the same in the wake of the 2008 housing bubble crash had he had time to do so.

Obama has had to deal with the BP fiasco and Sandy, but neither were of the magnitude of 9/11 or Katrina. Othersie he has had only a really crappy economy to work with and no way to go but up. He could have been a great hero that brought us out of the depths of depression. At least then I thought he had no way to go but up. But instead he has systematically and sometimes it appears intentionally done everything in his power to prevent an economic recovery and things have gotten progressively worse under his leadership. But in spite of his horrendous economic record, he still wants to raise the debt ceiling and go right on spending as if we had a bottomless pit of money.
 
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lets say I have a visa card with a $5000 limit. I currently owe visa $5000. I have maxed out my credit limit.

I want a new computer which costs $1500. I go to Visa and ask them to raise my "credit limit". They agree, I buy the computer for $1500 and put it on my Visa card.

Now, I owe Visa $6500. My debt is increased by the amount that I increased my debt ceiling.

This is a simple example to explain why Obama was full of shit when he made the statement that raising the debt ceiling does not raise the debt.

Hope you libs get it now--------but I don't count on it.

Discovercard sent me a letter once telling me my credit limit had been increased. That was years ago. I have never been near that credit limit.

Not a point that really helps your argument. Yes sometimes credit card companies up your credit limit even if you have no intention of spending that much. Unlike that situation DOES intend to spend that money. There would be no other reason to raise the debt ceiling.
 
lets say I have a visa card with a $5000 limit. I currently owe visa $5000. I have maxed out my credit limit.

I want a new computer which costs $1500. I go to Visa and ask them to raise my "credit limit". They agree, I buy the computer for $1500 and put it on my Visa card.

Now, I owe Visa $6500. My debt is increased by the amount that I increased my debt ceiling.

This is a simple example to explain why Obama was full of shit when he made the statement that raising the debt ceiling does not raise the debt.

Hope you libs get it now--------but I don't count on it.

Discovercard sent me a letter once telling me my credit limit had been increased. That was years ago. I have never been near that credit limit.

Not a point that really helps your argument. Yes sometimes credit card companies up your credit limit even if you have no intention of spending that much. Unlike that situation DOES intend to spend that money. There would be no other reason to raise the debt ceiling.

Also the Credit Card company was dangling a carrot out there hoping he WOULD use the available credit so the CC company could clean up on interest and fees. Redfish did not request the credit. Had he done so, it would be so the money would be made available to spend and he might or might not have accepted the consequences of using that kind of credit.

Obviously our fearless leader has zero intentions of intentionally reducing the deficit or paying anything on the rapidly swelling and unconscionable debt that he is creating. Even he has not been so inellectually dishonest to suggest that his repeated calls for higher taxes are to reduce the deficit. He is pretty clear that he intends any new revenue to be used to 'invest'. (Translation: buy more votes for those who are keeping him in power.)
 
We seem to have to raise the debt ceiling every year.
This is debt,money already spent that we have to make good on.
And every year it needs to be raised again.
Which seems to me that we have spent more then the year before.

So how can we be that we have not added to the debt?

Am I wrong here?

There's a semantics issue here that everyone is getting worked up over.

Congress and the President control the debt limit. They also control the spending and taxation to pay for the spending.

If they've passed spending/taxation legislation that assures the debt limit will be exceeded in the future, it's their responsibility to either raise the debt limit appropriately,

or pass legislation assuring that the debt limit won't be exceeded.

It is totally inappropriate and irresponsible to fail to do either.

no semantics involved. your leader said it in 2006

"Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit" Barack Hussein Obama


My, My, My....how soon they forget.....and forgive.
 
enough is enough

hold the prezbo to his words of 2006

dont raise the debt limit

it is a hard lesson learned

but at some point the government needs to live within its means
 
enough is enough

hold the prezbo to his words of 2006

dont raise the debt limit

it is a hard lesson learned

but at some point the government needs to live within its means

Agreed. so what if the government shuts down? Fat-assed politicians don't get paid? My pension is a little late? Fine. If that's what it takes to get the jerks to run the government the way WE have to run OUR budgets, then so be it.

It's about high time this nonsense stopped.
 
enough is enough

hold the prezbo to his words of 2006

dont raise the debt limit

it is a hard lesson learned

but at some point the government needs to live within its means

Agreed. so what if the government shuts down? Fat-assed politicians don't get paid? My pension is a little late? Fine. If that's what it takes to get the jerks to run the government the way WE have to run OUR budgets, then so be it.

It's about high time this nonsense stopped.

it isnt like the first time the government has been shut down

and they really do not shut down

the one in 95 and 96 the IRS worked fewer days

actually it helped me

the IRS slow down gave me the time to correct a problem

i had with them
 
enough is enough

hold the prezbo to his words of 2006

dont raise the debt limit

it is a hard lesson learned

but at some point the government needs to live within its means

Agreed. so what if the government shuts down? Fat-assed politicians don't get paid? My pension is a little late? Fine. If that's what it takes to get the jerks to run the government the way WE have to run OUR budgets, then so be it.

It's about high time this nonsense stopped.

it isnt like the first time the government has been shut down

and they really do not shut down

the one in 95 and 96 the IRS worked fewer days

actually it helped me

the IRS slow down gave me the time to correct a problem

i had with them

Absolutely, so they shut down. Who cares?

Liberals do. The "Great and Powerful Oz" would be shown to be nothing to get excited about. I could see liberals running through the streets screaming, pulling their hair out - "My god!! the government has shut down!! We are doomed!!! Our fearless leader!! Where is he?!?!?"

While the rest of us would smile, knowing that as long as they are shut down, they can't screw us.

To hell with it - shut this albatross down!!
 
Agreed. so what if the government shuts down? Fat-assed politicians don't get paid? My pension is a little late? Fine. If that's what it takes to get the jerks to run the government the way WE have to run OUR budgets, then so be it.

It's about high time this nonsense stopped.

it isnt like the first time the government has been shut down

and they really do not shut down

the one in 95 and 96 the IRS worked fewer days

actually it helped me

the IRS slow down gave me the time to correct a problem

i had with them

Absolutely, so they shut down. Who cares?

Liberals do. The "Great and Powerful Oz" would be shown to be nothing to get excited about. I could see liberals running through the streets screaming, pulling their hair out - "My god!! the government has shut down!! We are doomed!!! Our fearless leader!! Where is he?!?!?"

While the rest of us would smile, knowing that as long as they are shut down, they can't screw us.

To hell with it - shut this albatross down!!

if that is what it takes to stop the reckless over spending so be it
 
lets say I have a visa card with a $5000 limit. I currently owe visa $5000. I have maxed out my credit limit.

I want a new computer which costs $1500. I go to Visa and ask them to raise my "credit limit". They agree, I buy the computer for $1500 and put it on my Visa card.

Now, I owe Visa $6500. My debt is increased by the amount that I increased my debt ceiling.

This is a simple example to explain why Obama was full of shit when he made the statement that raising the debt ceiling does not raise the debt.

Hope you libs get it now--------but I don't count on it.

Discovercard sent me a letter once telling me my credit limit had been increased. That was years ago. I have never been near that credit limit.

Not a point that really helps your argument. Yes sometimes credit card companies up your credit limit even if you have no intention of spending that much. Unlike that situation DOES intend to spend that money. There would be no other reason to raise the debt ceiling.

Congress needs to raise the debt ceiling in order to accommodate the paying of the bills that Congress created.

The debt ceiling is not being raised in anticipation of new spending legislation being passed.
 
Raising the debt ceiling is not a spending program, therefore it cannot itself add to the debt.

if they aren't going to spend it why do they need to borrow it? Of course raises the debt, thats why its call "increasing the DEBT ceiling"

you cannot possibly be as ignorant as you seem

It is entirely possible that you have criticized his Lord and Master and he has to respond.
 
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a Sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. ...Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

- SENATOR BARACK OBAMA, MARCH 2006


It's different now...

it is different now because we have a "****** rich" non American muslime mulatto presidunce in office :up:

i sure wish GOD did not have a sense of humor when he allowed that mulatto to be bron, if there ever was a NEED for abortion his mother was a prime candidate :up:
 
But how bad was Bush compared to Obama?

In eight Bush years, there was a total increase of 77,000 federal employees. Executive branch employees increased by 53,000 and military personnel increased by 24,000. Almost all of the civilian employee increase was due to the creation of the Department of Homeland Securities in the wake of 9/11.

]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, civilian federal employees as of Jan 2001 stood at

2,606,000.

As of Jan 2009 that number was

2,781,000.

That's an increase of 177,000 civilian federal employees alone.

As of June 2013 the number stands at 2,761,000, a decrease of 20,000 since Jan. 2009.

You can check the numbers here:

Employment Situation Archived News Releases
 
Raising the debt ceiling is not a spending program, therefore it cannot itself add to the debt.

Only the ability.

Why would the legislature refuse to raise the debt ceiling in order to accommodate the increased debt that the legislature created?

Where's the proposed Republican budget that does not require a debt ceiling increase?

All of them are sitting in Harry Reid's inbox marked "Dead on arrival."
 
Discovercard sent me a letter once telling me my credit limit had been increased. That was years ago. I have never been near that credit limit.

Not a point that really helps your argument. Yes sometimes credit card companies up your credit limit even if you have no intention of spending that much. Unlike that situation DOES intend to spend that money. There would be no other reason to raise the debt ceiling.

Congress needs to raise the debt ceiling in order to accommodate the paying of the bills that Congress created.

The debt ceiling is not being raised in anticipation of new spending legislation being passed.

you are wrong, thats not the way it works. Before the govt can authorize spending on any project---a bridge or an aircraft carrier, congress has to authorize and appropriate the funding for it i.e. the money has to be there to pay for the project.

the contract for the bridge has an accounting page on it that has a bunch of long numbers that indicate that the funding has been appropriated for that project. It used to be called a zipper sheet.

Raising the debt limit is to cover future spending because they know that there is not sufficient revenue to cover known expenditures.

We won't hit the new limit immediately, because it takes time for projects to get into the mill, but in a short time we will be up to the new debt limit, and the Chinese will have a lein on more and more of the USA.
 
Only the ability.

Why would the legislature refuse to raise the debt ceiling in order to accommodate the increased debt that the legislature created?

Where's the proposed Republican budget that does not require a debt ceiling increase?

All of them are sitting in Harry Reid's inbox marked "Dead on arrival."

Then it shouldn't be hard for you to link to the GOP budget that the House passsed that doesn't require a debt ceiling increase this year.
 

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