Obama says to Christians "Get off your high horse, you used to kill people too"

[Iceweasel]

 

[longknife]

Iceweasel - thanks, I saw that posted on several sites and simply didn't bother to link them.

 

[Star]

Okay, I readily admit to having completely skipped 358 posts as there's no question as to what most of them say.

Obuma did exactly what EVERY liberal does - lie and make up the old bugaboo instead of dealing with FACTS.

It makes no difference whether or not he's Muslin - although this does tend to confirm that he is. The point is - HE LIED! He made yet another stupid off-the-cuff remark that shows just how ignorant this so-called scholar is.

Once again, he has showed the world what a horrible mistake the small percentage of Americans who actually vote made.

uh oh
Catfight Alert!

→ Here ←

Rightwingers/Republcans arguing outta both sides of their collective mouths?

.

 

[JQPublic1]

Obama told the truth and his bold indictment was not Faux News! I' am proud of a president who stands up and tells the truth for a change instead of telling "pseudo-conservatives what they want to hear! He isn't aiding or abetting the enemy, he is just putting things into historical perspective. What has he got to lose! You wouldn't support him even if he supported the illusion that Euro/American Christianity is as pristine as the driven snow! You would still hate him because he is the ink spot on your White egotistical sheet!

How is it truthful to say that we are on a moral high horse to condemn the actions of a violent death cult because of what medieval Christians did? That's propaganda not perspective.

What part of the 20th Century belongs to medieval times? I'm not going to allow you to skip over the holocaust and attempted Amerindian genocides. Did those events pass as Christian exploits or are we supposed to ignore them?

I'm not going to allow you to proclaim the Holocaust was a Christian endeavour and get away with it. Back it up, Einstein.

I asked the first questions that you have yet to answer...Answer them first before asking me to answer yours, Plato!

You made an idiotic comment and I called you on it. The Holocaust wasn't a Christian endeavour and you can't begin to support it.

Calm down! The Holocaust was carried out by Christians and that makes it a Christian endeavor whether you agree with it or not. During the time of the Holocaust most of Europe was Christian and many, if not all, of Europe was anti-Semitic. Germany was about largely Lutheran at the time and the rest were divided among Catholic and other Christian faiths. The home of the Nazis was a Christian nation. Now you can try to twist what I say and attempt to separate the Nazis from their Christian roots but its too late for that. The facts are indisputable and clear evidence shows that the Holocaust was carried out, not only by Nazi Christians but by ordinary Christian citizens as well. To implicate European Christianity further, there is a nominal amount of photographs showing Catholic priests and Lutheran church officials standing with uniformed Nazis and raising their right arms in the standard Nazi salute.

Rather then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to prove a well known fact to someone who would not appreciate it anyway, I'll direct your attention to several credible sources that back my premise. Please read them before you respond. That way you won't look so dumb with all that egg on your face.

1. The Church and Nazi Germany Revisited Bill Muehlenberg rsquo s CultureWatch

2. In chapter 6, ppg 120 of When A Nation Forgets God Erwin Lutzer lays it on the line highlighting the few Christian leaders daring to resist Nazi terror. Dietrich Bonhoeffer stood tall and never forsook his Christian ideals when "the church in Germany was being Nazified."( The authors words not mine.)

He added: " If every pastor would have been a BonHoeffer or a Niemoller , Hitler could not have accomplished his agenda. The pastors would have said NO to the Nazi doctrine of the superiority of the Aryan race and its frightful implications."

3. The above references are just the tip of the "iceberg" herr Iceweasel. Here is a USMB permalink for your viewing pleasure, Enjoy!

The Christian Nazis Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Geaux4it]

Iceweasel - thanks, I saw that posted on several sites and simply didn't bother to link them.

Thanks... and as the good professor mentions, there is no moral equivalency between the crusades and radical islam

-Geaux

 

[Star]

.

.​

 

[JQPublic1]

Iceweasel - thanks, I saw that posted on several sites and simply didn't bother to link them.

Thanks... and as the good professor mentions, there is no moral equivalency between the crusades and radical islam

-Geaux

From your perspective I suppose there is no moral equivalency between the crusades and radical islam. I just wonder what God's perspective is? I also wonder what perspective God has towards people who spend much of their conscious time spewing hate like you do!

 

[Asclepias]

Obama is a complete embarrassment as a President. Was he just trying to piss off Christians? For what purpose? I'm not a Christian and it pissed me off.

You must be white then.

 

[chikenwing]

The more he does this the more his followers love him for it.
Disgraceful.

Yeah, no Christians or Christian leaders have ever demanded that anything or anybody be killed for the glory of the cross...

You have 1,000 years of history to catch up to.

Except that African Christians are burning people alive they believe to be witches in today's context...

Witches/Christians the people that are doing that are not Christians,no matter how much you wish they were,but then thats typical of people like yourself.

 

[Moonglow]

The more he does this the more his followers love him for it.
Disgraceful.

Yeah, no Christians or Christian leaders have ever demanded that anything or anybody be killed for the glory of the cross...

You have 1,000 years of history to catch up to.

Except that African Christians are burning people alive they believe to be witches in today's context...

Witches/Christians the people that are doing that are not Christians,no matter how much you wish they were,but then thats typical of people like yourself.

Excuse it anyway you like....

 

[chikenwing]

Obama is a complete embarrassment as a President. Was he just trying to piss off Christians? For what purpose? I'm not a Christian and it pissed me off.

You must be white then.

WHAT? then you must be stupid!! the spot on retort from the left,disagree with the president,your a..................

 

[Moonglow]

Obama is a complete embarrassment as a President. Was he just trying to piss off Christians? For what purpose? I'm not a Christian and it pissed me off.

You must be white then.

WHAT? then you must be stupid!! the spot on retort from the left,disagree with the president,your a..................

C`est la vie....

 

[Asclepias]

Obama is a complete embarrassment as a President. Was he just trying to piss off Christians? For what purpose? I'm not a Christian and it pissed me off.

You must be white then.

WHAT? then you must be stupid!! the spot on retort from the left,disagree with the president,your a..................

You must be a moron. Where did Obama say this quote?

"Get off your high horse, you used to kill people too"

The only alternative is that the person is white. No could be dumb enough to start a thread with a misquote.

 

[Iceweasel]

Calm down! The Holocaust was carried out by Christians and that makes it a Christian endeavor whether you agree with it or not. During the time of the Holocaust most of Europe was Christian and many, if not all, of Europe was anti-Semitic. Germany was about largely Lutheran at the time and the rest were divided among Catholic and other Christian faiths. The home of the Nazis was a Christian nation. Now you can try to twist what I say and attempt to separate the Nazis from their Christian roots but its too late for that. The facts are indisputable and clear evidence shows that the Holocaust was carried out, not only by Nazi Christians but by ordinary Christian citizens as well. To implicate European Christianity further, there is a nominal amount of photographs showing Catholic priests and Lutheran church officials standing with uniformed Nazis and raising their right arms in the standard Nazi salute.

Rather then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to prove a well known fact to someone who would not appreciate it anyway, I'll direct your attention to several credible sources that back my premise. Please read them before you respond. That way you won't look so dumb with all that egg on your face.

1. The Church and Nazi Germany Revisited Bill Muehlenberg rsquo s CultureWatch

2. In chapter 6, ppg 120 of When A Nation Forgets God Erwin Lutzer lays it on the line highlighting the few Christian leaders daring to resist Nazi terror. Dietrich Bonhoeffer stood tall and never forsook his Christian ideals when "the church in Germany was being Nazified."( The authors words not mine.)

He added: " If every pastor would have been a BonHoeffer or a Niemoller , Hitler could not have accomplished his agenda. The pastors would have said NO to the Nazi doctrine of the superiority of the Aryan race and its frightful implications."

3. The above references are just the tip of the "iceberg" herr Iceweasel. Here is a USMB permalink for your viewing pleasure, Enjoy!

The Christian Nazis Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

That's like claiming every war the US has been in was a Christian war because most Americans identify themselves as Christian. That's idiotic beyond belief. But....

Enjoy this:

Hitler s Persecution of the Christian Churches
Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, noted:


"The Fuhrer is deeply religous, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race... Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed."


After his death documentation became available showing that Hitler had approved grandiose plans to wean the German churches away from Christianity and into the Neo-Pagan fold. To quote Shirer in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:

"...under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, 'National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.'

What the Hitler government envisioned for Germany was clearly set out in a thirty-point program for the 'National Reich Church' drawn up during the war by Rosenberg, an outspoken pagan...

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

"The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800...

"The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...'"

"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."
(The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, p. 240 in some editions, p. 332 in others. Chapter headed "Triumph and Consolidation", subsection "The Persecution of the Christian Churches")



Martin Bormann was faithful to Hitler till the end, sprinkling gasoline on the bodies after Hitler's suicide. This true believer put it this way:

"National Socialist and Christian concepts are incompatible. The Christian Churches build upon the ignorance of men and strive to keep large portions of the people in ignorance because only in this way can the Christian Churches maintain their power. On the other hand, National Socialism is based on scientific foundations. Christianity's immutable principles, which were laid down almost two thousand years ago, have increasingly stiffened into life-alien dogmas. National Socialism, however, if it wants to fulfill its task further, must always guide itself according to the newest data of scientific researches.

"The Christian Churches have long been aware that exact scientific knowledge poses a threat to their existence. Therefore, by means of such pseudo-sciences as theology, they take great pains to suppress or falsify scientific research...No one would know anything about Christianity if pastors had not crammed it down his throat in his childhood. The so-called loving God by no means reveals the knowledge of His existence to young people, but amazingly enough, and despite His omnipotence, He leaves this to the efforts of a pastor. When in the future our youth no longer hear anything about this Christianity, whose doctrine is far below our own, Christianity will automatically disappear.

"[...] When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God...[we mean] [t]he force which moves all these bodies in the universe, in accordance with natural law, is what we call the Almighty or God. The assertion that this world-force can worry about the fate of every individual, every bacillus on earth, and that it can be influenced by so-called prayer or other astonishing things, is based either on a suitable dose of naivete or on outright commercial effrontery."

"Any influence that would impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised by the Fuhrer with the aid of the NSDAP has to be eliminated. To an ever increasing degree the people must be wrested from Churches and their agents, the pastors...Only the Reich leadership, together with the party and the organs and associations connected with it, has a right to lead the people. Just as the harmful influence of astrologists, soothsayers, and other swindlers has been suppressed by the state, so it must be absolutely impossible for the Church to exercise its old influence."

(Martin Bormann, Reich Leader, 1942, 'National Socialist and Christian Concepts are Incompatible', From Kirchliches Jahrbuch fur die evangelische Kirche in Deutschland, 1933-1944, pp. 470-472, quoted pp. 245-247, George L. Mosse, Nazi Culture: A Documentary History).
Hitler's contempt for Christians and the Bible was genuine and well-attested. Of Roman Catholic upbringing, he was, however, a theist, who seems to have had a vague religious faith, attributing his escape from Stauffenberg's bomb to "Providence." (Colonel Stauffenberg had placed a briefcase containing a bomb at the Fuhrer's feet, then hastily departed. Not owing to any break in the course of nature, but simply because somebody found the clumsy briefcase to be in the way, it had been moved before exploding, and Hitler survived.) He spoke to the nation: "The bomb planted by Colonel Count Stauffenberg exploded two meters to the right of me...I myself an entirely unhurt, aside from some very minor scratches, bruises and burns. I regard this as a confirmation of the task imposed upon me by Providence..." (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer, p. 1069). He considered this "Providence" to favor the strong over the weak:

"...I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man. That is to say, I believe that he who fights valiantly obeying the laws which a god has established and who never capitulates but instead gathers his forces time after time and always pushes forward---such a man will not be abandoned by the Lawgiver. Rather, he will ultimately receive the blessing of Providence."

(Adolf Hitler, in his June 26, 1944 speech to industrialists, quoted by Albert Speer, p. 555, Inside the Third Reich.)

But He was no Christian, and his movement was no celebration of Christianity. He thought ill of Christianity, preferring Islam for its warrior spirit:

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

(Adolf Hitler, quoted by Albert Speer, p. 96, Inside the Third Reich.)
The "meekness and flabbiness" to which Hitler objected in Christianity fell straight from the lips of its Founder: "But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." (Matthew 5:39).

While it is difficult to fix the boundary between the fringe and the mainstream, the general tenor of Nazi ideology was in favor of the old Nordic paganism and against Christianity:

"The German people is no longer blinded by illusions as at the time of the Reformation. It has come to recognize not only Judaism, but Christianity too, as foreign to its genius.-- Der Blitz, January 12, 1936, quoted p. 6, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"But today a new faith is awakening: the myth of the blood...Then in place of the Old Testament stories of cattle breeders and the exploitation of prostitutes, we shall have the Nordic sagas and fairy tales, at first simply recounted, later assuming the form of symbols." (Alfred Rosenberg, Myth of the Twentieth Century, 1932, quoted p. 6, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"The teaching of mercy and love of one's neighbor is foreign to the German race and the Sermon on the Mount is according to Nordic sentiment an ethic for cowards and idiots.-- Hans Hauptmann, Bolshevism in the Bible (Nazi textbook), 1937, quoted p. 28, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"If Jehovah has lost all meaning for us Germans, the same must be said of Jesus Christ, his son...He certainly lacks those characteristics which he would require to be a true German. Indeed, he is as disappointing, if we read his record carefully, as is his father.-- E. K. Heidemann, 'What the Christian Does not Know about Christianity,' September, 1935, quoted p. 105, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer). And perhaps a summary of the conclusions of Michael Burleigh should also form a summary here. Burleigh is the historian who has perhaps done most to look at the relationship between Nazism and religion: "In both The Third Reich and Sacred Causes, Burleigh emphasizes the widely unknown or deliberately ignored fact that the strongest opposition to Nazi ideology and criminality came from conservative "men of God." This is no accident. While left-wing critics of Nazism wrongly saw in it only a virulent version of either "late capitalism" or German nationalism, its conservative Christian opponents were far more sensitive to the movement's profoundly antitraditional character. The more discerning among them saw in Nazism nothing less than a "revolution of nihilism." And not a few of them courageously rose to the challenge of resisting the new barbarism.

In addition to Bishop Clemens August Graf von Galen, the "lion of Munster," who in a series of famous sermons in 1941 denounced the murderous Nazi euthanasia campaign, some of the Austrian and German bishops did not shrink from attacking the "racist madness" of Nazism. In his great encyclical Mit brennender Sorge (1938), written pointedly in German and clandestinely smuggled into Germany, Pope Pius XI attacked modern racialism, the cynical Nazi appropriation of Christian symbolism, nationalist idolatry, and a false cult of human greatness. Likewise, in the first encyclical of his pontificate, Summi pontificis, released in the fall of 1939, Pius XII affirmed the "fundamental unity" of the human race and expressed his profound sympathy for the plight of Poland. The whole world had no doubt at the time whom the same pontiff had in mind in his 1942 Christmas message when he spoke of "the hundreds of thousands of innocent people put to death or doomed to slow extinction, sometimes merely because of their race or descent." This prudent, perhaps too prudent, diplomat-pope, despising National Socialism but solicitous of putting an end to a suicidal total war, helped inspire the heroic witness of groups like Temoignage chretien in France (whose anti-Nazi pamphleteers included such eminent philosophers and theologians as Gaston Fessard and Henri de Lubac) as well as the Italian Catholics who saved tens of thousands of Jews in the fall of 1944 when the Nazis unleashed full scale war against the Jews in occupied Italy.

The rewriting of history to suggest that the Christian West was somehow culpable in the murderous agenda of the National Socialists is one of the greatest intellectual distortions of our time. Burleigh has done a great service by recovering an appreciation for the impregnable wall that separated the Christian religion — with its affirmation of the fundamental unity of the human race and of conscience informed by right reason — from both the "horrors of applied rationality" (communism) and the National Socialist religion of the absolutized human will. This project of historical and moral restoration achieves something like its finished form in his magisterial two-volume history of political religion, Earthly Powers and Sacred Causes.



The above article is adapted in part from here by John Ray (M.A.;Ph.D.).

 

[JQPublic1]

Calm down! The Holocaust was carried out by Christians and that makes it a Christian endeavor whether you agree with it or not. During the time of the Holocaust most of Europe was Christian and many, if not all, of Europe was anti-Semitic. Germany was about largely Lutheran at the time and the rest were divided among Catholic and other Christian faiths. The home of the Nazis was a Christian nation. Now you can try to twist what I say and attempt to separate the Nazis from their Christian roots but its too late for that. The facts are indisputable and clear evidence shows that the Holocaust was carried out, not only by Nazi Christians but by ordinary Christian citizens as well. To implicate European Christianity further, there is a nominal amount of photographs showing Catholic priests and Lutheran church officials standing with uniformed Nazis and raising their right arms in the standard Nazi salute.

Rather then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to prove a well known fact to someone who would not appreciate it anyway, I'll direct your attention to several credible sources that back my premise. Please read them before you respond. That way you won't look so dumb with all that egg on your face.

1. The Church and Nazi Germany Revisited Bill Muehlenberg rsquo s CultureWatch

2. In chapter 6, ppg 120 of When A Nation Forgets God Erwin Lutzer lays it on the line highlighting the few Christian leaders daring to resist Nazi terror. Dietrich Bonhoeffer stood tall and never forsook his Christian ideals when "the church in Germany was being Nazified."( The authors words not mine.)

He added: " If every pastor would have been a BonHoeffer or a Niemoller , Hitler could not have accomplished his agenda. The pastors would have said NO to the Nazi doctrine of the superiority of the Aryan race and its frightful implications."

3. The above references are just the tip of the "iceberg" herr Iceweasel. Here is a USMB permalink for your viewing pleasure, Enjoy!

The Christian Nazis Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

That's like claiming every war the US has been in was a Christian war because most Americans identify themselves as Christian. That's idiotic beyond belief. But....

Enjoy this:

Hitler s Persecution of the Christian Churches
Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, noted:


"The Fuhrer is deeply religous, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race... Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed."


After his death documentation became available showing that Hitler had approved grandiose plans to wean the German churches away from Christianity and into the Neo-Pagan fold. To quote Shirer in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:

"...under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, 'National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.'

What the Hitler government envisioned for Germany was clearly set out in a thirty-point program for the 'National Reich Church' drawn up during the war by Rosenberg, an outspoken pagan...

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

"The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800...

"The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...'"

"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."
(The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, p. 240 in some editions, p. 332 in others. Chapter headed "Triumph and Consolidation", subsection "The Persecution of the Christian Churches")



Martin Bormann was faithful to Hitler till the end, sprinkling gasoline on the bodies after Hitler's suicide. This true believer put it this way:

"National Socialist and Christian concepts are incompatible. The Christian Churches build upon the ignorance of men and strive to keep large portions of the people in ignorance because only in this way can the Christian Churches maintain their power. On the other hand, National Socialism is based on scientific foundations. Christianity's immutable principles, which were laid down almost two thousand years ago, have increasingly stiffened into life-alien dogmas. National Socialism, however, if it wants to fulfill its task further, must always guide itself according to the newest data of scientific researches.

"The Christian Churches have long been aware that exact scientific knowledge poses a threat to their existence. Therefore, by means of such pseudo-sciences as theology, they take great pains to suppress or falsify scientific research...No one would know anything about Christianity if pastors had not crammed it down his throat in his childhood. The so-called loving God by no means reveals the knowledge of His existence to young people, but amazingly enough, and despite His omnipotence, He leaves this to the efforts of a pastor. When in the future our youth no longer hear anything about this Christianity, whose doctrine is far below our own, Christianity will automatically disappear.

"[...] When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God...[we mean] [t]he force which moves all these bodies in the universe, in accordance with natural law, is what we call the Almighty or God. The assertion that this world-force can worry about the fate of every individual, every bacillus on earth, and that it can be influenced by so-called prayer or other astonishing things, is based either on a suitable dose of naivete or on outright commercial effrontery."

"Any influence that would impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised by the Fuhrer with the aid of the NSDAP has to be eliminated. To an ever increasing degree the people must be wrested from Churches and their agents, the pastors...Only the Reich leadership, together with the party and the organs and associations connected with it, has a right to lead the people. Just as the harmful influence of astrologists, soothsayers, and other swindlers has been suppressed by the state, so it must be absolutely impossible for the Church to exercise its old influence."

(Martin Bormann, Reich Leader, 1942, 'National Socialist and Christian Concepts are Incompatible', From Kirchliches Jahrbuch fur die evangelische Kirche in Deutschland, 1933-1944, pp. 470-472, quoted pp. 245-247, George L. Mosse, Nazi Culture: A Documentary History).
Hitler's contempt for Christians and the Bible was genuine and well-attested. Of Roman Catholic upbringing, he was, however, a theist, who seems to have had a vague religious faith, attributing his escape from Stauffenberg's bomb to "Providence." (Colonel Stauffenberg had placed a briefcase containing a bomb at the Fuhrer's feet, then hastily departed. Not owing to any break in the course of nature, but simply because somebody found the clumsy briefcase to be in the way, it had been moved before exploding, and Hitler survived.) He spoke to the nation: "The bomb planted by Colonel Count Stauffenberg exploded two meters to the right of me...I myself an entirely unhurt, aside from some very minor scratches, bruises and burns. I regard this as a confirmation of the task imposed upon me by Providence..." (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer, p. 1069). He considered this "Providence" to favor the strong over the weak:

"...I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man. That is to say, I believe that he who fights valiantly obeying the laws which a god has established and who never capitulates but instead gathers his forces time after time and always pushes forward---such a man will not be abandoned by the Lawgiver. Rather, he will ultimately receive the blessing of Providence."

(Adolf Hitler, in his June 26, 1944 speech to industrialists, quoted by Albert Speer, p. 555, Inside the Third Reich.)

But He was no Christian, and his movement was no celebration of Christianity. He thought ill of Christianity, preferring Islam for its warrior spirit:

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

(Adolf Hitler, quoted by Albert Speer, p. 96, Inside the Third Reich.)
The "meekness and flabbiness" to which Hitler objected in Christianity fell straight from the lips of its Founder: "But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." (Matthew 5:39).

While it is difficult to fix the boundary between the fringe and the mainstream, the general tenor of Nazi ideology was in favor of the old Nordic paganism and against Christianity:

"The German people is no longer blinded by illusions as at the time of the Reformation. It has come to recognize not only Judaism, but Christianity too, as foreign to its genius.-- Der Blitz, January 12, 1936, quoted p. 6, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"But today a new faith is awakening: the myth of the blood...Then in place of the Old Testament stories of cattle breeders and the exploitation of prostitutes, we shall have the Nordic sagas and fairy tales, at first simply recounted, later assuming the form of symbols." (Alfred Rosenberg, Myth of the Twentieth Century, 1932, quoted p. 6, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"The teaching of mercy and love of one's neighbor is foreign to the German race and the Sermon on the Mount is according to Nordic sentiment an ethic for cowards and idiots.-- Hans Hauptmann, Bolshevism in the Bible (Nazi textbook), 1937, quoted p. 28, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer).

"If Jehovah has lost all meaning for us Germans, the same must be said of Jesus Christ, his son...He certainly lacks those characteristics which he would require to be a true German. Indeed, he is as disappointing, if we read his record carefully, as is his father.-- E. K. Heidemann, 'What the Christian Does not Know about Christianity,' September, 1935, quoted p. 105, The War Against God, edited by Carl Carmer). And perhaps a summary of the conclusions of Michael Burleigh should also form a summary here. Burleigh is the historian who has perhaps done most to look at the relationship between Nazism and religion: "In both The Third Reich and Sacred Causes, Burleigh emphasizes the widely unknown or deliberately ignored fact that the strongest opposition to Nazi ideology and criminality came from conservative "men of God." This is no accident. While left-wing critics of Nazism wrongly saw in it only a virulent version of either "late capitalism" or German nationalism, its conservative Christian opponents were far more sensitive to the movement's profoundly antitraditional character. The more discerning among them saw in Nazism nothing less than a "revolution of nihilism." And not a few of them courageously rose to the challenge of resisting the new barbarism.

In addition to Bishop Clemens August Graf von Galen, the "lion of Munster," who in a series of famous sermons in 1941 denounced the murderous Nazi euthanasia campaign, some of the Austrian and German bishops did not shrink from attacking the "racist madness" of Nazism. In his great encyclical Mit brennender Sorge (1938), written pointedly in German and clandestinely smuggled into Germany, Pope Pius XI attacked modern racialism, the cynical Nazi appropriation of Christian symbolism, nationalist idolatry, and a false cult of human greatness. Likewise, in the first encyclical of his pontificate, Summi pontificis, released in the fall of 1939, Pius XII affirmed the "fundamental unity" of the human race and expressed his profound sympathy for the plight of Poland. The whole world had no doubt at the time whom the same pontiff had in mind in his 1942 Christmas message when he spoke of "the hundreds of thousands of innocent people put to death or doomed to slow extinction, sometimes merely because of their race or descent." This prudent, perhaps too prudent, diplomat-pope, despising National Socialism but solicitous of putting an end to a suicidal total war, helped inspire the heroic witness of groups like Temoignage chretien in France (whose anti-Nazi pamphleteers included such eminent philosophers and theologians as Gaston Fessard and Henri de Lubac) as well as the Italian Catholics who saved tens of thousands of Jews in the fall of 1944 when the Nazis unleashed full scale war against the Jews in occupied Italy.

The rewriting of history to suggest that the Christian West was somehow culpable in the murderous agenda of the National Socialists is one of the greatest intellectual distortions of our time. Burleigh has done a great service by recovering an appreciation for the impregnable wall that separated the Christian religion — with its affirmation of the fundamental unity of the human race and of conscience informed by right reason — from both the "horrors of applied rationality" (communism) and the National Socialist religion of the absolutized human will. This project of historical and moral restoration achieves something like its finished form in his magisterial two-volume history of political religion, Earthly Powers and Sacred Causes.



The above article is adapted in part from here by John Ray (M.A.;Ph.D.).

I see you did not bother to read amy of my references. Typical! Hitler's Christianity is but one small factor in the Holocaust, feigned or not. My premise turns upon the reality that his willing executioners were ordinary Christians who were regular churchgoers and believers in Christ. WIthout the complicity of those minions who supported Christianity and who usually adhered to the innate doctrines implied therein, Hitler could not have even come to power at all. Christian European society was overwrought with hatred of the Jews and probably still is. The Churches failed to intervene in addressing anti-Semitism well before Hitler was even born. He was, in a sense, a product of the Church's apathy towards the nearly universal anti-Semitic jingoistic hubris against Jews. But that is not as important a factor as the common German Christian's eagerness to don the Nazi uniform, staff the concentration camps and execute one of the most horrific enterprises in modern history! Then, after the fall of Hiter's Germany, some of those same murderers claimed, they only acted on orders. Hmmm! They failed to adhere to the orders of the One who can destroy the body AND the soul: GOD!

 

[Iceweasel]

I see you did not bother to read amy of my references. Typical! Hitler's Christianity is but one small factor in the Holocaust, feigned or not. My premise turns upon the reality that his willing executioners were ordinary Christians who were regular churchgoers and believers in Christ. WIthout the complicity of those minions who supported Christianity and who usually adhered to the innate doctrines implied therein, Hitler could not have even come to power at all. Christian European society was overwrought with hatred of the Jews and probably still is. The Churches failed to intervene in addressing anti-Semitism well before Hitler was even born. He was, in a sense, a product of the Church's apathy towards the nearly universal anti-Semitic jingoistic hubris against Jews. But that is not as important a factor as the common German Christian's eagerness to don the Nazi uniform, staff the concentration camps and execute one of the most horrific enterprises in modern history! Then, after the fall of Hiter's Germany, some of those same murderers claimed, they only acted on orders. Hmmm! They failed to adhere to the orders of the One who can destroy the body AND the soul: GOD!

It's very well documented that the Nazi's were going to take over the church. Read the above post instead of lecturing people on what you know nothing about.

Then read up on Donovan's papers from the Nuremberg trials.


Word for Word The Case Against the Nazis - How Hitler s Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - NYTimes.com
Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity
By JOE SHARKEY
Published: January 13, 2002
Correction Appended
THE chilling testimony of crimes against humanity by the Nazi regime in Hitler's Germany have been on the historical record since the Nuremberg war-crimes trials of 1945 and 1946. But any criminal prosecution, and especially one as mammoth as the case against Nazi Germany, consists of far more than public testimony in court. The Nuremberg trials were also built on many millions of pages of supporting evidence: documents, summaries, notes and memos collected by investigators.

One of the leading United States investigators at Nuremberg, Gen. William J. Donovan -- Wild Bill Donovan of the O.S.S., the C.I.A.'s precursor -- collected and cataloged trial evidence in 148 bound volumes of personal papers that were stored after his death in 1959 at Cornell University. In 1999, Julie Seltzer Mandel, a law student from Rutgers University whose grandmother survived the Auschwitz death camp, read them. Under the Nuremberg Project, a collaboration between Rutgers and Cornell, she has edited the collection for publication on the Internet.

The first installment, published last week on the Web site of the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion (www.camlaw.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion), includes a 108-page outline prepared by O.S.S. investigators to aid Nuremberg prosecutors. The outline, ''The Persecution of the Christian Churches,'' summarizes the Nazi plan to subvert and destroy German Christianity, which it calls ''an integral part of the National Socialist scheme of world conquest.''

 

[JQPublic1]

I see you did not bother to read amy of my references. Typical! Hitler's Christianity is but one small factor in the Holocaust, feigned or not. My premise turns upon the reality that his willing executioners were ordinary Christians who were regular churchgoers and believers in Christ. WIthout the complicity of those minions who supported Christianity and who usually adhered to the innate doctrines implied therein, Hitler could not have even come to power at all. Christian European society was overwrought with hatred of the Jews and probably still is. The Churches failed to intervene in addressing anti-Semitism well before Hitler was even born. He was, in a sense, a product of the Church's apathy towards the nearly universal anti-Semitic jingoistic hubris against Jews. But that is not as important a factor as the common German Christian's eagerness to don the Nazi uniform, staff the concentration camps and execute one of the most horrific enterprises in modern history! Then, after the fall of Hiter's Germany, some of those same murderers claimed, they only acted on orders. Hmmm! They failed to adhere to the orders of the One who can destroy the body AND the soul: GOD!

It's very well documented that the Nazi's were going to take over the church. Read the above post instead of lecturing people on what you know nothing about.

Then read up on Donovan's papers from the Nuremberg trials.


Word for Word The Case Against the Nazis - How Hitler s Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - NYTimes.com
Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity
By JOE SHARKEY
Published: January 13, 2002
Correction Appended
THE chilling testimony of crimes against humanity by the Nazi regime in Hitler's Germany have been on the historical record since the Nuremberg war-crimes trials of 1945 and 1946. But any criminal prosecution, and especially one as mammoth as the case against Nazi Germany, consists of far more than public testimony in court. The Nuremberg trials were also built on many millions of pages of supporting evidence: documents, summaries, notes and memos collected by investigators.

One of the leading United States investigators at Nuremberg, Gen. William J. Donovan -- Wild Bill Donovan of the O.S.S., the C.I.A.'s precursor -- collected and cataloged trial evidence in 148 bound volumes of personal papers that were stored after his death in 1959 at Cornell University. In 1999, Julie Seltzer Mandel, a law student from Rutgers University whose grandmother survived the Auschwitz death camp, read them. Under the Nuremberg Project, a collaboration between Rutgers and Cornell, she has edited the collection for publication on the Internet.

The first installment, published last week on the Web site of the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion (www.camlaw.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion), includes a 108-page outline prepared by O.S.S. investigators to aid Nuremberg prosecutors. The outline, ''The Persecution of the Christian Churches,'' summarizes the Nazi plan to subvert and destroy German Christianity, which it calls ''an integral part of the National Socialist scheme of world conquest.''

I care naught for the written words meant to save Christian Europe from being held accountable for having overt and covert culpability in the Holocaust! From whence came the Nazis who rose to prominence in the midst of a nation of Christians? Common sense should prevail in assessing the impact Christians had on the state sanctioned genocide of innocents. You seem short on that so I'll appeal to the more erudite readers with
visuals.

 

[JQPublic1]

'The Persecution of the Christian Churches,'' summarizes the Nazi plan to subvert and destroy German Christianity, which it calls ''an integral part of the National Socialist scheme of world conquest.''

DO THESE IMAGES REFLECT YOU PATHETIC NOTION ?

 

[JQPublic1]

It's very well documented that the Nazi's were going to take over the church. Read the above post instead of lecturing people on what you know nothing about.

1. Oh, really! If I stop lecturing will these pictures bother you? I know ALOT about photography.
2. It is too bad the camera was invented...without photos your supercilious nonsense might have some modicum of credibility!

 

[Iceweasel]

I see you did not bother to read amy of my references. Typical! Hitler's Christianity is but one small factor in the Holocaust, feigned or not. My premise turns upon the reality that his willing executioners were ordinary Christians who were regular churchgoers and believers in Christ. WIthout the complicity of those minions who supported Christianity and who usually adhered to the innate doctrines implied therein, Hitler could not have even come to power at all. Christian European society was overwrought with hatred of the Jews and probably still is. The Churches failed to intervene in addressing anti-Semitism well before Hitler was even born. He was, in a sense, a product of the Church's apathy towards the nearly universal anti-Semitic jingoistic hubris against Jews. But that is not as important a factor as the common German Christian's eagerness to don the Nazi uniform, staff the concentration camps and execute one of the most horrific enterprises in modern history! Then, after the fall of Hiter's Germany, some of those same murderers claimed, they only acted on orders. Hmmm! They failed to adhere to the orders of the One who can destroy the body AND the soul: GOD!

It's very well documented that the Nazi's were going to take over the church. Read the above post instead of lecturing people on what you know nothing about.

Then read up on Donovan's papers from the Nuremberg trials.


Word for Word The Case Against the Nazis - How Hitler s Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - NYTimes.com
Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity
By JOE SHARKEY
Published: January 13, 2002
Correction Appended
THE chilling testimony of crimes against humanity by the Nazi regime in Hitler's Germany have been on the historical record since the Nuremberg war-crimes trials of 1945 and 1946. But any criminal prosecution, and especially one as mammoth as the case against Nazi Germany, consists of far more than public testimony in court. The Nuremberg trials were also built on many millions of pages of supporting evidence: documents, summaries, notes and memos collected by investigators.

One of the leading United States investigators at Nuremberg, Gen. William J. Donovan -- Wild Bill Donovan of the O.S.S., the C.I.A.'s precursor -- collected and cataloged trial evidence in 148 bound volumes of personal papers that were stored after his death in 1959 at Cornell University. In 1999, Julie Seltzer Mandel, a law student from Rutgers University whose grandmother survived the Auschwitz death camp, read them. Under the Nuremberg Project, a collaboration between Rutgers and Cornell, she has edited the collection for publication on the Internet.

The first installment, published last week on the Web site of the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion (www.camlaw.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion), includes a 108-page outline prepared by O.S.S. investigators to aid Nuremberg prosecutors. The outline, ''The Persecution of the Christian Churches,'' summarizes the Nazi plan to subvert and destroy German Christianity, which it calls ''an integral part of the National Socialist scheme of world conquest.''

I care naught for the written words meant to save Christian Europe from being held accountable for having overt and covert culpability in the Holocaust! From whence came the Nazis who rose to prominence in the midst of a nation of Christians? Common sense should prevail in assessing the impact Christians had on the state sanctioned genocide of innocents. You seem short on that so I'll appeal to the more erudite readers with
visuals.

Your problem is that the written words were done by Nazis. Hitler was raised Catholic, quoting him from 1928 while showing him much older means nothing. The point is that their anti-Christian plot is well documented and nobody needs to defend Christians from the Holocaust any more than they need to defend Christians from US wars.

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew." - 11th-12th July, 1941

"Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it's the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back 15 centuries."

"Pure Christianity— the Christianity of the catacombs— is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." - 14th December, 1941

"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. To-day, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday, the instigator was Saul: the instigator to-day, Mardochai. Saul has changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." - 21st October, 1941

"I'm sure that Nero didn't set fire to Rome. It was the Christian-Bolsheviks who did that, just as the Commune set fire to Paris in 1871 and the Communists set fire to the Reichstag in 1932." - 25th October, 1941

""It was Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome – not the Germans or the Huns." – 27th Jan 1942

"As soon as the idea was introduced that all men were equal before God, that world was bound to collapse." 26th February, 1942

"By means of the struggle, the elites are continually renewed. The law of selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of failure." - 10th October, 1941

"It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo… As a sane German, one is flabbergasted to think that German human beings could have let themselves be brought to such a pass by Jewish filth and priestly twaddle, that they were little different from the howling dervish of the Turks and the negroes, at whom we laugh so scornfully. It angers one to think that, while in other parts of the globe religious teaching like that of Confucius, Buddha and Mohammed offers an undeniably broad basis for the religious-minded, Germans should have been duped by a theological exposition devoid of all honest depth." - 5th June, 1942

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity." - 14th October, 1941

"I shall never believe that what is founded on lies can endure for ever. I believe in truth. I'm sure that, in the long run, truth must be victorious. It's probable that, as regards religion, we are about to enter an era of tolerance. Everybody will be allowed to seek his own salvation in the way that suits him best. The ancient world knew this climate of tolerance. Nobody took to proselytising." 27th February, 1942

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity. Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society." - 19th October, 1941