Obama wants to raise the minimum wage when we're on the verge of a second recession?

[Bern80]

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

Of course life is a requirement. The disagreement is simply on who should be responsible for providing its necessitites. You believe that's someone else's responsibility. I believe providing for yourself if your a capable adult is your responsibility. The reason your view can't work is simple. For you to be able to obligate a business owner to providing for you that business owner obviously had to earn enough to provide for themselves first. He has to do at least twice the work you're willing to do (assuming this is a business with just one employee) to provide you that which you believe your obligated to. So you can get off your moral high horse because their is absolutely NOTHING moral about the notion that somoene else owes you enough to live on.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.

You say things you have no evidence for that run counter to everything we know about how economics works. You cite concepts of basic supply and demand yet clearly don't see the issue from the employers side. They buy things to you know. One of them being labor. If the price of it goes up, the supply of it must decrease. Once again your beliefs rest on presumptions that simply aren't so. It can not be assumed that if a company raises it's wages they will automatically sell more stuff. You think a GM employee is going to buy two cars instead of one if their pay goes up? It would also assume that everyone that works for company x demand products from company x. Also not true.

You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

I understood your make believe scenario just fine. As it is completely unrealistic and doesn't prove much of anything, again, I fail to see the point.

 

[Bern80]

You're never going to get this, but we'll try it one more time just in case you're slow. YOU ARE NOT OWED BY ANYONE ENOUGH TO LIVE ON. Why the fuck should an employer be more responsible for you than you are willing to be for yourself?



I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.



Clearly I understand economics a lot better than you do. What exactly are 'the standards'? You seem to be top toeing away from the concept of enough to live on so I guess we're not talking about that standard now? So what standard are we talking about? As to running the country that's probably the biggest problem with you libs. You think when elected it's your job to run the country. It isn't. The job of the elected officials is protect people's freedoms as defined by the constitution and that's really about it. You never have considered that maybe there's a connection between government trying to run the economy and the economy going to shit have you?



That would be another responsibility on the part of the consumer. Consumers won't pay $150 for a pair of Nike's as another poster noted. They might pay $80, but you can't sell an American made shoe for that because it costs too much to make here.

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.

I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.

You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

The drug issue has something to do with U.S. patent law and is more an exception than the rule. My observation has been most luxury items cost more in Australia than they do in the U.S. I know the products we make do.

 

[Gadawg73]

Minimum wage increases have shown little to no effect on employment rates.

Overall, probably not. But obviously it doesn't employment for anyone making above the new min. wage. It is only going to have an effect on people who make/made the same as or less than the new minimum. That's the group we're most concerned with right? So the question is not so much how is all unemployment affected. The question is what happens to the number of minimum wage jobs when the min wage goes up. And for those jobs it simply isn't possible for the pay for those jobs to be artificially increased and not have the number of jobs that pay that amount go down. It's pretty basic supply and demand and labor is a good like anything else purchased by employers. If its cost goes up, it's demand MUST go down.

They do not care about that and they call us greedy.
All they care about is themselves.

 

[Gadawg73]

You're never going to get this, but we'll try it one more time just in case you're slow. YOU ARE NOT OWED BY ANYONE ENOUGH TO LIVE ON. Why the fuck should an employer be more responsible for you than you are willing to be for yourself?



I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.



Clearly I understand economics a lot better than you do. What exactly are 'the standards'? You seem to be top toeing away from the concept of enough to live on so I guess we're not talking about that standard now? So what standard are we talking about? As to running the country that's probably the biggest problem with you libs. You think when elected it's your job to run the country. It isn't. The job of the elected officials is protect people's freedoms as defined by the constitution and that's really about it. You never have considered that maybe there's a connection between government trying to run the economy and the economy going to shit have you?



That would be another responsibility on the part of the consumer. Consumers won't pay $150 for a pair of Nike's as another poster noted. They might pay $80, but you can't sell an American made shoe for that because it costs too much to make here.

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.

I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.

You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

We have government mandating government and insurance companies go by a certain set of rules and regulations on who and who does not pay for drugs here.
Takes the competition out of the game.
And you claim we have no safety net here for poor folks??????

WHAT KIND OF DOPE ARE YOU EATING?

 

[Bern80]

They do not care about that and they call us greedy.
All they care about is themselves.

Good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony/hypocrisy in someone who thinks they are entitled to something for nothing calling business owners greedy.

 

[JoeNormal]

You're never going to get this, but we'll try it one more time just in case you're slow. YOU ARE NOT OWED BY ANYONE ENOUGH TO LIVE ON. Why the fuck should an employer be more responsible for you than you are willing to be for yourself?



I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.



Clearly I understand economics a lot better than you do. What exactly are 'the standards'? You seem to be top toeing away from the concept of enough to live on so I guess we're not talking about that standard now? So what standard are we talking about? As to running the country that's probably the biggest problem with you libs. You think when elected it's your job to run the country. It isn't. The job of the elected officials is protect people's freedoms as defined by the constitution and that's really about it. You never have considered that maybe there's a connection between government trying to run the economy and the economy going to shit have you?



That would be another responsibility on the part of the consumer. Consumers won't pay $150 for a pair of Nike's as another poster noted. They might pay $80, but you can't sell an American made shoe for that because it costs too much to make here.

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.

I'm not the one that needs to grow a brain here. I'm not the one who lives and la la land and believes as long as you just give people enough to live on all their problems will go away. Secondly you keep making up this nonsensical scenarios. So now everyone making just a little more than $100k/yr (that's about where the cut off is for the top 5%) has their pay cut in half? Uuuuuhhh why would that happen? And what the fuck is your point. Duh, yes that would make it harder for those people, but since that's a fairy tale scenario I don't really see the point.

You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

Good post. I think every American who has travelled abroad (not that many unfortunately) can see how royally fucked we've been by our corporatocracy/plutocracy. Then you have the useful idiots who defend them... If you want a good laugh, go to the We are the 53% site. I think it's been over a year since anyone was stupid enough to contribute to it but I see the attitudes reflected within it are still alive today.

 

[Bern80]

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.



You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

Good post. I think every American who has travelled abroad (not that many unfortunately) can see how royally fucked we've been by our corporatocracy/plutocracy. Then you have the useful idiots who defend them... If you want a good laugh, go to the We are the 53% site. I think it's been over a year since anyone was stupid enough to contribute to it but I see the attitudes reflected within it are still alive today.

Actually I see how royaly fucked they are by their governments.

 

[Gadawg73]

Enough said to a fool like you! You want a system that requires labor but doesn't believe life is a requirement. If someone is doing a needed job and is working 2,000 hours per year, they should get paid enough to live. If all businesses did that instead of thinking they can get away with low wages, then their business would be more profitable. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Low wages only benefits a business if they are the only ones doing it. When it's throughout the economic system, it hurts business.

You say too many stupid things to even bother with. Raising the wages in America would help business and allowing them to continue to drift lower is going to hurt business. I gave you the example of cutting wages in half, but use a couple brain cells and realize over time those wages can be cut in half in terms of real dollars. Of course a conservative Republican will never see that simple logic, because their concept of economics is in reverse. They are great for depressions, but can't run a successful economy. Only demand drives an economy and lower wages decreases demand.



You can't even read and comprehend what was said. I said the everybody below the upper 5% had their wages cut in half. It would be mass bankrupcy, fool!

You don't understand economics, so who do you think you are kidding. You can't even read.

I'm tired of wasting my time talking to a fool. You're too dumb to even know you are dumb.

It would probably cost $10 bucks more to make the Nike's here and the consumer would pay it.

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

Good post. I think every American who has travelled abroad (not that many unfortunately) can see how royally fucked we've been by our corporatocracy/plutocracy. Then you have the useful idiots who defend them... If you want a good laugh, go to the We are the 53% site. I think it's been over a year since anyone was stupid enough to contribute to it but I see the attitudes reflected within it are still alive today.

I travel abroad 3 weeks every year to all over the world except asia.
Everywhere I go everyone wants TO MOVE TO AMERICA.
Except a few places in Europe where employees get 4 weeks of vacation to start, work 30 hour weeks and get free health care. The bankrupt countries.

They are beating down our doors wanting to live here and you claim it is better over there?

 

[JoeNormal]

Dubya,living and having a very successful business in Australia.....I look at the really Cronic Wages most folk earn in the USA and think how on earth did a country so powerful allow their citizens live in such pauperdom and poverty.....it's not as if you have a welfare system or safety net.....for those who become unemployed or for your senior citizens to have a reasonable standard of living in their latter years.

In Australia for example American made drugs are much,much cheaper here than in the US,Americans are being exploited completely.

An American friends daughter was hospitalized in Perth for over 3 months,two operations and much intensive care.....thankfully she came good but when Randy asked for the treatment and hospital account he was told...."There is no CHARGE,everyone is covered"

Such is our health system.

Women(and men for that matter) can take Maternity Leave from their jobs (3-6 months)fully paid....plus a $5,000 to $10,000 Baby BONUS for essentials for their and our latest (Australian) child.......plus pre-and-post natal treatment for the mom and bub.

I could go on and on but I will close by saying every time I go to the States the way many folk live is so shocking....Why do you all treat and allow fellow Americans to live like this.

Your Wages are SHIT,Your Resulting Poverty is SHIT.............God continue to Bless Australia "The Lucky Country" where all are Welcome and cared for if requested and required.........The Unemployed or Under Employed have NO STIGMA,because there but for the Grace of God,could go all of US........something some of you Ghastly,Selfish,Greedy and Uncaring Americans should think about......there are Plenty of YOU

Keep Well Dubya,always great to talk to a kindred spirit steve

Good post. I think every American who has travelled abroad (not that many unfortunately) can see how royally fucked we've been by our corporatocracy/plutocracy. Then you have the useful idiots who defend them... If you want a good laugh, go to the We are the 53% site. I think it's been over a year since anyone was stupid enough to contribute to it but I see the attitudes reflected within it are still alive today.

I travel abroad 3 weeks every year to all over the world except asia.
Everywhere I go everyone wants TO MOVE TO AMERICA.
Except a few places in Europe where employees get 4 weeks of vacation to start, work 30 hour weeks and get free health care. The bankrupt countries.

They are beating down our doors wanting to live here and you claim it is better over there?

I can't imagine what third world places you must visit. Do you stay in gated communities? Are you able to walk the streets?

I've travelled to Europe, Asia, the Middle East, South America and very few people I've met would want to come to America. There was a Japanese guy who was pretty gung ho for America, and maybe some of the poorer Argentinians but virtually none of the Europeans would trade places. The ME people have their own culture which they wish we'd just stop messing with.

 

[Gadawg73]

Good post. I think every American who has travelled abroad (not that many unfortunately) can see how royally fucked we've been by our corporatocracy/plutocracy. Then you have the useful idiots who defend them... If you want a good laugh, go to the We are the 53% site. I think it's been over a year since anyone was stupid enough to contribute to it but I see the attitudes reflected within it are still alive today.

I travel abroad 3 weeks every year to all over the world except asia.
Everywhere I go everyone wants TO MOVE TO AMERICA.
Except a few places in Europe where employees get 4 weeks of vacation to start, work 30 hour weeks and get free health care. The bankrupt countries.

They are beating down our doors wanting to live here and you claim it is better over there?

I can't imagine what third world places you must visit. Do you stay in gated communities? Are you able to walk the streets?

I've travelled to Europe, Asia, the Middle East, South America and very few people I've met would want to come to America. There was a Japanese guy who was pretty gung ho for America, and maybe some of the poorer Argentinians but virtually none of the Europeans would trade places. The ME people have their own culture which they wish we'd just stop messing with.

Every country you mention their TOP STUDENTS come to America.
And for what? And most of the top ones that graduate stay here to work.
Doctors, lawyers and engineers.
Very few go back to their own countries.
Ever heard the term "melting pot"?
And they still come here for that reason. FREEDOM
And everyone here tells me of why they left and why they came here.
FREEDOM
You take your freedom for granted.

 

[JoeNormal]

I travel abroad 3 weeks every year to all over the world except asia.
Everywhere I go everyone wants TO MOVE TO AMERICA.
Except a few places in Europe where employees get 4 weeks of vacation to start, work 30 hour weeks and get free health care. The bankrupt countries.

They are beating down our doors wanting to live here and you claim it is better over there?

I can't imagine what third world places you must visit. Do you stay in gated communities? Are you able to walk the streets?

I've travelled to Europe, Asia, the Middle East, South America and very few people I've met would want to come to America. There was a Japanese guy who was pretty gung ho for America, and maybe some of the poorer Argentinians but virtually none of the Europeans would trade places. The ME people have their own culture which they wish we'd just stop messing with.

Every country you mention their TOP STUDENTS come to America.
And for what? And most of the top ones that graduate stay here to work.
Doctors, lawyers and engineers.
Very few go back to their own countries.
Ever heard the term "melting pot"?
And they still come here for that reason. FREEDOM
And everyone here tells me of why they left and why they came here.
FREEDOM
You take your freedom for granted.

The legend of the American Dream has outlasted the reality of it.

When I was in engineering school, I had many foreign TA's. Most of the one's I knew well enough to talk about issues beyond the coursework planned to return to their home countries. Granted, it was probably because they were more comfortable in the culture in which they grew up but the allure of 'freedom' wasn't strong enough for them to want to stay.

Sure, there are much worse places in the world but I don't think we're justified in thinking that this is the shining city on the hill any longer.

 

[Bern80]

The legend of the American Dream has outlasted the reality of it.

No. The problem is people like you believe the American dream is an outcome. I guess you must think it's the dream of not having to worry about taking care of your own needs. Sorry. That is not, nor was it ever the case. Most people that came here to pursue the American dream know that. The dream they came to pursue was a life free of government tyranny and the opportunity (a word that is no a synonym for 'outcome' as you libs seem to think), to make their lives whatever they chose them to be. Our ancestors that came here for this dream did not land on our shores, sit their asses on the ground and say 'gimmie the free shit you owe me for showin' up.'

 

[depotoo]

The legend of the American Dream has outlasted the reality of it.

No. The problem is people like you believe the American dream is an outcome. I guess you must think it's the dream of not having to worry about taking care of your own needs. Sorry. That is not, nor was it ever the case. Most people that came here to pursue the American dream know that. The dream they came to pursue was a life free of government tyranny and the opportunity (a word that is no a synonym for 'outcome' as you libs seem to think), to make their lives whatever they chose them to be. Our ancestors that came here for this dream did not land on our shores, sit their asses on the ground and say 'gimmie the free shit you owe me for showin' up.'

excellent post!
Hard work with ambition is what makes one capable of the AMerican Dream. Work today is so much easier than what our ancesters went through, yet many complain, it is just too hard and yet do nothing to better their own circumstances. It takes ambition and drive along with hard work to get that dream. It takes not listening to anyone else saying you can't do it or its just too hard. I know of several people from my lifetime that didn't even know how to read, but they didn't let that stop them and they now own their own businesses and are a success. You ask them how they did it, they will tell you they wouldn't listen to anyone tell them they couldn't do it, they believed, and worked hard and never gave up even when the going was tougher than hell.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What planet do you live on where you believe this to be a good idea?

Straw man?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I thought "trickle down economics" would work? All this is...is to require the rich to engage in trickle down economics.

More money in rich people's pockets = good/ More money in poor people's pockets = bad

^^Is that about right?

Watch out! Gramps will start insulting you and claiming he is an expert on hiring

 

[Bern80]

I thought "trickle down economics" would work? All this is...is to require the rich to engage in trickle down economics.

More money in rich people's pockets = good/ More money in poor people's pockets = bad

^^Is that about right?

Watch out! Gramps will start insulting you and claiming he is an expert on hiring

Of course it's not right. Where the left gets the idea from the right that they think poor people with more money = bad, when all we're really saying is earning enough to live on is YOUR responsibility, I still can't comprehend.

 

[JoeNormal]

The legend of the American Dream has outlasted the reality of it.

No. The problem is people like you believe the American dream is an outcome. I guess you must think it's the dream of not having to worry about taking care of your own needs. Sorry. That is not, nor was it ever the case. Most people that came here to pursue the American dream know that. The dream they came to pursue was a life free of government tyranny and the opportunity (a word that is no a synonym for 'outcome' as you libs seem to think), to make their lives whatever they chose them to be. Our ancestors that came here for this dream did not land on our shores, sit their asses on the ground and say 'gimmie the free shit you owe me for showin' up.'

I'd like to know where this common perception that conservatives have that everyone is looking for a free ride comes from. Do you actually live in some inner city hell-hole where you see crack ho's and ganstas roaming the streets? Welfare line stretched around the block? I'm guessing not. It's probably some fear based seed planted by Sean Hanity that you imagine to be true.

 

[Gadawg73]

The legend of the American Dream has outlasted the reality of it.

No. The problem is people like you believe the American dream is an outcome. I guess you must think it's the dream of not having to worry about taking care of your own needs. Sorry. That is not, nor was it ever the case. Most people that came here to pursue the American dream know that. The dream they came to pursue was a life free of government tyranny and the opportunity (a word that is no a synonym for 'outcome' as you libs seem to think), to make their lives whatever they chose them to be. Our ancestors that came here for this dream did not land on our shores, sit their asses on the ground and say 'gimmie the free shit you owe me for showin' up.'

I'd like to know where this common perception that conservatives have that everyone is looking for a free ride comes from. Do you actually live in some inner city hell-hole where you see crack ho's and ganstas roaming the streets? Welfare line stretched around the block? I'm guessing not. It's probably some fear based seed planted by Sean Hanity that you imagine to be true.

Not everyone, where has anyone stated that?
All one has to do is to see the massive increase in social security disability claims, the rise in food stamps, the rise in government and the takers that line up to "qualify".
Takes away from the fact that there ARE folks that are out there that need help.
But many are in line for goodies because of their own bad mistakes.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results.
That is why we have an entitlement mentality in this country.
Why work when you can make as much or a little less sitting on ones's ass?
Everyone wants a "living wage" for being at the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Gadawg73]

It used to be that someone that believes in a strong work ethic, not having children out of wedlock, paid their own bills and did not indulge in activities that would lead them into poverty was considered a good citizen.
Now they are looked down upon by the left and labeled "conservatives", greedy and judgmental.

 

[JoeNormal]

No. The problem is people like you believe the American dream is an outcome. I guess you must think it's the dream of not having to worry about taking care of your own needs. Sorry. That is not, nor was it ever the case. Most people that came here to pursue the American dream know that. The dream they came to pursue was a life free of government tyranny and the opportunity (a word that is no a synonym for 'outcome' as you libs seem to think), to make their lives whatever they chose them to be. Our ancestors that came here for this dream did not land on our shores, sit their asses on the ground and say 'gimmie the free shit you owe me for showin' up.'

I'd like to know where this common perception that conservatives have that everyone is looking for a free ride comes from. Do you actually live in some inner city hell-hole where you see crack ho's and ganstas roaming the streets? Welfare line stretched around the block? I'm guessing not. It's probably some fear based seed planted by Sean Hanity that you imagine to be true.

Not everyone, where has anyone stated that?
All one has to do is to see the massive increase in social security disability claims, the rise in food stamps, the rise in government and the takers that line up to "qualify".
Takes away from the fact that there ARE folks that are out there that need help.
But many are in line for goodies because of their own bad mistakes.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results.
That is why we have an entitlement mentality in this country.
Why work when you can make as much or a little less sitting on ones's ass?
Everyone wants a "living wage" for being at the bottom of the barrel.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into Bern80's comments but that seem to be his underlying sentiment.

I won't justify the actions of welfare scammers and I won't deny their existence either. The thing is, I don't think I've known more than a couple of welfare or young SS recipents in my life and none of them wanted to be in the position of needing that assistance. The one I currently know was widowed and left with three kids and not much education. She gets a stipend and she and her kids live with her father. I think the myth of legions of welfare scammers has been completely overblown.