Obozo forcing schools to give special treatment to disabled students

[Againsheila]

You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.

I know what kind of people people like you are.

Tell me something, why would I oppose forcing businesses in an area with high stoops to spend millions of dollars to completely remodel their front entrance simply because some jerk in a wheelchair doesn't like the fact that they are more than willing to provide assistance to get up the steps?

I have no problems with old businesses, I do think new business should be built to cater to handicapped as well as the non handicapped. How would you like to have for assistance all the time?

 

[Againsheila]

I can't take statements like Sheila's seriously. She is the mother of a disabled child and her statements are solely concerned with the benefit to her child. If you were to hear from the parent of a normal child in a class with a disabled child, you would hear something entirely different. You would hear about how the disabled child had a bad day and took up the whole of the teacher's attention. They never got to open that science or geography book. The cost of accommodating the disabled goes beyond dollars and cents.

If costs are a concern, I direct you to the law that mandated strip clubs have stages to accommodate the dancers who are in wheel chairs.
Business | Strip Club Told To Open Stage To Dancers In Wheelchairs | Seattle Times Newspaper

Whether or not there are nude dancers in wheel chairs is immaterial. The stage must at least offer accommodation. Maybe the time will come when strip clubs MUST hire nude dancers in wheelchairs or even paraplegic dancers to comply with the law.

No, you wouldn't, because if that was happening than the special needs child isn't getting what he/she needs either. My youngest son was mainstreamed for art and PE and he came WITH an aid. He wasn't a disruption to the regular ed class but IMO an addition to their education. Those children would come up to us at the mall and talk to Andrew even though they knew he couldn't talk back. That's not a sign of kids that aren't getting anything from a special needs kid in their class. If a special needs is in a regular ed class, they are provided an accommodation. For many this means an aid, which takes that child out of the classroom if they become disruptive. If your scenario ever happened, then that school was not providing reasonable accommodations for the special needs child and everybody is a loser.

My oldest son is not as severely handicapped and I did hear about when he had a bad day. Seems he was being teased very badly. He went to his teacher for help and was ignored. He went to the lunchroom supervisor for help and was ignored. He went to the playground supervisor and was ignored. He went to the office staff for help and was ignored. He finally yelled at them and left the elementary school and came home. I got a call from the school saying my son yelled at the office staff and left campus for no reason. Since I was den leader for cub scouts, there were several other students in the school that knew my son personally. One of them went home and told his mother, without being asked, what had happened to my son and she called me. When I went into school to have a meeting with them, I called them on their "no reason". They admitted the fact that David had been teased excessively and they did nothing about it but allowed it to continue all day saying they just don't have time to stop everyone from teasing other kids. Good grief. All kids should have a degree of safety in school INCLUDING protection from harassment and if they go to an adult for help that adult should damn well help them. I don't care who they are. This led up to worse and worse incidents for my son until I finally took him out of school and home schooled him. The school tried to fight my homeschooling my son, even asking if I'd allow a behavioral specialist into my home to critique my parenting skills. I said sure, I didn't have anything to hide. After visiting my home several times and watching me with my child and my family together, we had the meeting with the district in which I announced I was pulling them out of their school which couldn't protect him from teasing and the behavior therapist took my side. She was an independent contractor, poor lady and she never worked for our district again. They sure didn't want to lose the money for my son. Yeah, David was high functioning, they provided very little for him. Couldn't even have the IEP meeting after school because they'd have to pay someone overtime.

My son had a bad day and he couldn't get ANYONE's attention, not even his teachers. I have a hard time believing one special needs child gets ALL the teachers attention.

A side note, after homeschooling David for a few months, his speech therapist came to visit from the school, by law he's still entitled to services from the school even if he's being home schooled. His speech therapist said she couldn't believe the difference in him and that home schooling him, to her, was the best thing I could have done for him at that time. He was learning, he stopped stuttering, and he was well behaved. In fact, she only visited him 3 times at home before determining speech therapy wasn't needed for him anymore. I imagine they got all 7800 for him that year even though I was homeschooling him and the speech therapist saw him only 3 times. The school district was probably upset she stopped seeing him as they couldn't get funds for him the following year when he was completely homeschooled.

often parents don't understand what it takes to mainstream a special needs student. They think it's easy.

the curriculum may need to be altered so they understand the material
maybe special technology needs to be acquired and the staff needs trained in its use
aids need hired and trained
the classroom environment may need to be altered to accommodate one student


if the special needs student is disruptive, then the other students suffer. Quite often that is the case.


usually, mainstreaming is relatively seamless however. but it takes extra time and effort.

Unfortunately many special need parents are not grateful for the effort. they believe it's an entitlement which extends to the staff working after hours to accommodate the parents schedule.

You come off as a helicopter mom.

My suggestion to have the IEP meeting AFTER school was because they claimed they couldn't get all the school staff that was required to be at the meeting, at the meeting at the same time due to scheduling conflicts. How terrible of me to expect the people with the complaints about my son to actually show up at the meeting about him. I don't even know what a "helicopter" mom is. His teacher, the one it most impacted, couldn't come to the meeting because they held it during school hours. Kind of stupid to have IEP meetings without the presence of the teachers.

 

[squeeze berry]

No, you wouldn't, because if that was happening than the special needs child isn't getting what he/she needs either. My youngest son was mainstreamed for art and PE and he came WITH an aid. He wasn't a disruption to the regular ed class but IMO an addition to their education. Those children would come up to us at the mall and talk to Andrew even though they knew he couldn't talk back. That's not a sign of kids that aren't getting anything from a special needs kid in their class. If a special needs is in a regular ed class, they are provided an accommodation. For many this means an aid, which takes that child out of the classroom if they become disruptive. If your scenario ever happened, then that school was not providing reasonable accommodations for the special needs child and everybody is a loser.

My oldest son is not as severely handicapped and I did hear about when he had a bad day. Seems he was being teased very badly. He went to his teacher for help and was ignored. He went to the lunchroom supervisor for help and was ignored. He went to the playground supervisor and was ignored. He went to the office staff for help and was ignored. He finally yelled at them and left the elementary school and came home. I got a call from the school saying my son yelled at the office staff and left campus for no reason. Since I was den leader for cub scouts, there were several other students in the school that knew my son personally. One of them went home and told his mother, without being asked, what had happened to my son and she called me. When I went into school to have a meeting with them, I called them on their "no reason". They admitted the fact that David had been teased excessively and they did nothing about it but allowed it to continue all day saying they just don't have time to stop everyone from teasing other kids. Good grief. All kids should have a degree of safety in school INCLUDING protection from harassment and if they go to an adult for help that adult should damn well help them. I don't care who they are. This led up to worse and worse incidents for my son until I finally took him out of school and home schooled him. The school tried to fight my homeschooling my son, even asking if I'd allow a behavioral specialist into my home to critique my parenting skills. I said sure, I didn't have anything to hide. After visiting my home several times and watching me with my child and my family together, we had the meeting with the district in which I announced I was pulling them out of their school which couldn't protect him from teasing and the behavior therapist took my side. She was an independent contractor, poor lady and she never worked for our district again. They sure didn't want to lose the money for my son. Yeah, David was high functioning, they provided very little for him. Couldn't even have the IEP meeting after school because they'd have to pay someone overtime.

My son had a bad day and he couldn't get ANYONE's attention, not even his teachers. I have a hard time believing one special needs child gets ALL the teachers attention.

A side note, after homeschooling David for a few months, his speech therapist came to visit from the school, by law he's still entitled to services from the school even if he's being home schooled. His speech therapist said she couldn't believe the difference in him and that home schooling him, to her, was the best thing I could have done for him at that time. He was learning, he stopped stuttering, and he was well behaved. In fact, she only visited him 3 times at home before determining speech therapy wasn't needed for him anymore. I imagine they got all 7800 for him that year even though I was homeschooling him and the speech therapist saw him only 3 times. The school district was probably upset she stopped seeing him as they couldn't get funds for him the following year when he was completely homeschooled.

often parents don't understand what it takes to mainstream a special needs student. They think it's easy.

the curriculum may need to be altered so they understand the material
maybe special technology needs to be acquired and the staff needs trained in its use
aids need hired and trained
the classroom environment may need to be altered to accommodate one student


if the special needs student is disruptive, then the other students suffer. Quite often that is the case.


usually, mainstreaming is relatively seamless however. but it takes extra time and effort.

Unfortunately many special need parents are not grateful for the effort. they believe it's an entitlement which extends to the staff working after hours to accommodate the parents schedule.

You come off as a helicopter mom.

My suggestion to have the IEP meeting AFTER school was because they claimed they couldn't get all the school staff that was required to be at the meeting, at the meeting at the same time due to scheduling conflicts. How terrible of me to expect the people with the complaints about my son to actually show up at the meeting about him. I don't even know what a "helicopter" mom is. His teacher, the one it most impacted, couldn't come to the meeting because they held it during school hours. Kind of stupid to have IEP meetings without the presence of the teachers.

an IEP meeting is not for the purpose of complaints.

It's to discuss goals, progress and services

 

[NYcarbineer]

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

See, that's why I kept telling idiots like you to read the fucking .pdf.

Once again, if I am getting something wrong, feel free to provide a quotation from the pdf to prove me wrong. Until you do, why don't we just assume I read it?

That you think these rules require interscholastic baseball teams to include blind kids because they are blind is wrong.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keep in mind these are the same rightwing nuts who opposed wheelchair ramps and every other simple accommodation for the disabled.

Apparently conservatives feel the same way about the disabled as they do about the poor, i.e.,

if you're not experiencing the full dosage of pain, suffering, and disadvantage that comes with your condition,

because someone somewhere has done something to make your life easier,

then somehow, according to the conservative madness they call conservative values,

some sort of injustice has been committed.

You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.

Name all the government programs that help the poor economically that you support.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect people who can see to play baseball with blind kids.

See, that's why I kept telling idiots like you to read the fucking .pdf.

Once again, if I am getting something wrong, feel free to provide a quotation from the pdf to prove me wrong. Until you do, why don't we just assume I read it?

I have a better idea, why don't you just be honest and answer the question.

Did you read it or not?

Yes, or no.

 

[Unkotare]

Name all the government programs that help the poor economically that you support.

There's that failed liberal 'logic' again...

 

[ZimothyTahn]

How about boys playing on the girls teams?

The PGA lets women play in it's events but the LPGA has it in their charter that men are not allowed!!! Why don't libs howl about that blatant discrimination?

because unlike what conservatives believe, we don't think being a female is a disability. and i don't think any lib gave a fuck that the PGA was men only. it's golf. six people watch that shit.

 

[JimH52]

What facet of our lives will the feds take over next?. States need to put down their foot and say education is nowhere mentioned in the constitution and so, by the tenth amendment, ed is a state issue.!!

Disabled students must be given sports, says Education Dept. - U.S. News

Jan 25, 2013

The feds are ordering schools across the country to make "reasonable" changes to sports programs so that disabled students can play — or else create separate teams for them.
The new guidance from the Education Department issued Friday was hailed by advocates for the disabled but denounced by a conservative think-tank that said it could cost big bucks for cash-strapped schools.

The new order from the Education Department says athletics is also a civil right for the disabled and schools that don’t protect it could lose federal funding.
Under the latest rules, schools must tweak traditional programs to give qualified disabled students a shot at playing as long as they can do it without fundamentally changing the sport or giving anyone an advantage

Have you ever heard of the Americans with Disabillities Act or do you live in a cave?

 

[bodecea]

What facet of our lives will the feds take over next?. States need to put down their foot and say education is nowhere mentioned in the constitution and so, by the tenth amendment, ed is a state issue.!!

Disabled students must be given sports, says Education Dept. - U.S. News

Jan 25, 2013

The feds are ordering schools across the country to make "reasonable" changes to sports programs so that disabled students can play — or else create separate teams for them.
The new guidance from the Education Department issued Friday was hailed by advocates for the disabled but denounced by a conservative think-tank that said it could cost big bucks for cash-strapped schools.

The new order from the Education Department says athletics is also a civil right for the disabled and schools that don’t protect it could lose federal funding.
Under the latest rules, schools must tweak traditional programs to give qualified disabled students a shot at playing as long as they can do it without fundamentally changing the sport or giving anyone an advantage

Isn't that Title IX stuff anyways?

 

[bodecea]

I work with the disabled and find this thread despicable. What about handicap parking? Is that a communist policy that we should ban? What about ramps? I mean they have the opportunity to take the stairs right? If they can't then, well, they should have thought about that before deciding to be handicapped. Right?

Of all the things to be angry about in this world you pick this. I don't get it.

You don't understand the issue. Where does the constitution give the feds authority over education?

By the tenth amendment, education is a state issue.

Pay attention to what I'm about to say:

The feds ONLY have a say in education if schools take fed money...i.e. Title 1 money. Schools can ignore anything that the feds want them to do IF they don't take any fed money. That includes Title 1 money, Free and Reduced Lunch money, and any Fed money that might have helped them with school construction.

It's quite easy....don't take the money.

 

[bodecea]

Imagine, the Federal Government intervening in local schools!

Where is the constitutional justification for such intervention?

The schools are taking fed money.

 

[bodecea]

I. Since schools take Federal money, they have to accept certain standards.

It's not federal money. It's money you paid in taxes and then the feds say "we'll give it back if you do what we say"!!!!! Real americans ( not commie libs) are sick of that.

No...it's SPECIFIC money for education. It is very clearly spelled out by the Feds and by the districts accepting the money what it does. IF you don't like it....petition your local school board to decline the fed ed money....see what they say.

 

[bodecea]

You guys are hilarious.

If a disabled kid tries out for whatever sport and makes the team, that's great and good for him or her.

But,

Is Obama trying to force schools to put whatever disabled kid on the team no matter what?

No. There will not be kids with disabilities playing football. Are you insane?

I know some who have done quite well at football.

 

[bodecea]

Yep, my problem is selfish self centered bastards that treat the truly handicapped as second class citizens. No one is demanding that these children be utilized as linebackers on a highschool football team. That is nothing more than a dumb strawman argument.
And if you can't find reason in this scenario and realize that these kids need to feel included in life then you too can join him on the highway

Being included as the handicapped person to be pitied is far different than the handicapped person who overcomes and inspires. You are the self centered person who wants everyone else to bend to your needs here.

the parents of special needs children are notorious for being unreasonably demanding and bullies.

Oh. Really?

 

[bodecea]

How much money do we spend on sports in schools each year?

IMO, too much

What are you doing to change that at YOUR school district?

 

[Darkwind]

I. Since schools take Federal money, they have to accept certain standards.

It's not federal money. It's money you paid in taxes and then the feds say "we'll give it back if you do what we say"!!!!! Real americans ( not commie libs) are sick of that.

This is one contard meme that drives me nuts. Once you pay taxes it is not your money any more. The people you elect to represent you also represent you in spending Federal revenues - it' s one of the things you elect them for. Your taxes are paying for Sandy relief, for example.

You never get to earmark your tax payments. If we could then my Hubs and I are due a refund for the Iraq War - we never authorized that.

Regards from Rosie

While I cannot get behind the premise of this thread (A conservative wants limited government, not zero government, and government does have a role in helping people who, through no fault of their own, cannot function in our society) I find that comments like yours truly shows the ignorance of the left.

The premise is that it is the Feds money and that they are going to give some of it back to our communities if we do as they say. This is wrong on so many levels its hard to know at what level you'd find any understanding at all.

1. The Feds have no money. The entire notion that they own all the money and we are allowed to keep a portion of it for our 'time' is so backwards as to be indescribable. This is where the idiotic notion of 'having to pay for tax cuts' arise.

2. Once the money is taxed, the government cannot just spend it any old way they chose. There are limitations and restrictions. The left seem to think that government should be unbound in its efforts to do whatever it wishes to do.

3. Every individual has the right to petition (yes, and gripe about) government and its mismanagement of the taxes they levy upon us. The biggest flaw of liberal thinking is that government spends wisely. It is far to often the case that when a politician says we need revenues to fix 'X' and they get those revenues, 'X' never gets fixed because the increased taxes go to other programs that help them to get reelected. They then (usually at the next elections cycle) state that they underestimated the seriousness of the problem (sound familiar **CoughObamaCough**) and that we need to increase the taxes by an additional amount.) Nothing ever truly gets fixed or is helped by taxation.


As for the moron in this thread who thinks that the Federal Government does not use the use of funds as a means of controlling the behavior of the States and the people, you need to seek remedial reality training.

 

[bodecea]

You have freedom of speech and religion in most European countries. ..

Tell that to all the germans and austrians sent to prison for merely QUESTIONING the official conspiracy story on the holohoax.

Ah...an agenda......

 

[bodecea]

Keep in mind these are the same rightwing nuts who opposed wheelchair ramps and every other simple accommodation for the disabled.

Apparently conservatives feel the same way about the disabled as they do about the poor, i.e.,

if you're not experiencing the full dosage of pain, suffering, and disadvantage that comes with your condition,

because someone somewhere has done something to make your life easier,

then somehow, according to the conservative madness they call conservative values,

some sort of injustice has been committed.

Absolutely. The disabled are special and we must spend our entire GDP on making life easier for them.

Said by No One......Ever.

 

[bodecea]

]

If you don't think a person who can see has an advantage over a kid who is blind even if the baseball is beeping you really don't know what you are talking about. Can a blind person learn to hit a ball? Yes? Will he be able to effectively track the ball in a stadium with a large crowd yelling to distract him? Can he actually track a ball if he is playing the outfield? Shortstop? Would he be able to dodge the ball if he was pitching and it got hit right back at him?

Answer that one for yourself.

Yes - it's more liberal insanity. The real solution here is nullification. States need to void federal laws and programs that are unconstitutional and all federal involvement in education is that way.

An EXCELLENT Idea! All Red States should reject Federal Education Funds IMMEDIATELY. This needs to be a MAJOR part of the Republican Party Platform.