Oh Dear...The facts get in the way again.

[Shogun]

I bet that the people refusing to acknoledge Plame's status would still refuse and hide behind a strawman even if jesus personally showed them his "She was a Covert Agent" tattoo on the small of his back...

 

[maineman]

More word games and you haven't answered the question. If no one doubted the word of the Director of the CIA why was a law EVER created? Or rather why doesn't the law just say "ask the Director"

I think she falls under the legal definition of covert as well. As I can recall, it does not say that an agent has to be "stationed" outside of the US within five years, but only that they need to have "served" outside of the US within the last five years.

I served on several tours in the med and in westpac, but was always stationed in conus.

now.... tell me why you think you know more than the director of central intelligence.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think she falls under the legal definition of covert as well. As I can recall, it does not say that an agent has to be "stationed" outside of the US within five years, but only that they need to have "served" outside of the US within the last five years.

I served on several tours in the med and in westpac, but was always stationed in conus.

now.... tell me why you think you know more than the director of central intelligence.

Answer my question. As to this new question, I recall your insistance that anyone voting for war had abdicated their responsibility by doing so, The Law exists and is quite plain, anyone simply accepting the "word" of the CIA is abdicating their responsibility under the law.

 

[Care4all]

More word games and you haven't answered the question. If no one doubted the word of the Director of the CIA why was a law EVER created? Or rather why doesn't the law just say "ask the Director"

What are you talking about SGT?

There is a law regarding the outing of a covert agent.

Pertaining to that law, there are definitions of the specific terms used in a separate section, which includes the definition of covert.

also in a separate section of that Law, it says the USA gvt must Acknowledge to the Justice Dept/Investigating prosecutor the covert status of the agent outed, before the prosecutor can bring an investigative case and indictment against the "outers".

 

[DeadCanDance]

I bet that the people refusing to acknoledge Plame's status would still refuse and hide behind a strawman even if jesus personally showed them his "She was a Covert Agent" tattoo on the small of his back...

It's an ego thing. So many wingnuts spent years claiming that Plame wasn't covert, that they simply can't admit they were wrong when the facts show that she was covert.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Keep dancing.

 

[maineman]

Answer my question. As to this new question, I recall your insistance that anyone voting for war had abdicated their responsibility by doing so, The Law exists and is quite plain, anyone simply accepting the "word" of the CIA is abdicating their responsibility under the law.

I answered your question....I understand that there is a law...by my reading of the text of that law, Plame falls under the umbrella of covert status..... I am not suggesting that we take the DCI's opinion alone. I do not, however, understand the reason for your unwillingness to take his opinion AT ALL nor your unwillingness to discuss the "stationed" versus "served" issue.

 

[Care4all]

Here is the Definition under us code 50 section 426 of the identities protection Act:

(4) The term “covert agent” means—
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—

(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and

(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or


(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information, and—

(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency, or

(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; or

you don't even need to use the word "served" outside of the USA, because Plame fits the second definition too.

 

[DeadCanDance]

."At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States."

--Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, in Court Filing

 

[Truthmatters]

Why dont they prosecute him for filing lies into the court record?

Oh because its the truth.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I answered your question....I understand that there is a law...by my reading of the text of that law, Plame falls under the umbrella of covert status..... I am not suggesting that we take the DCI's opinion alone. I do not, however, understand the reason for your unwillingness to take his opinion AT ALL nor your unwillingness to discuss the "stationed" versus "served" issue.

I take exception at your repeated claim that because the CIA said it, it is true. I question it because, in fact NO ruling has been made. NO ONE was charged with revealing Plume's employment. Unless a ruling is made, my opinion AND yours are JUST that opinion.

I further take exception to the claim of others that the Administration did it and did it on purpose. I repeat Libby was NOT charged with "outing" Plume. In fact NONE of the "vice President's" men were charged. Further Armitage at ( I believe) State admitted he did it. He is NO servant of the President or the Vice President.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Here is the Definition under us code 50 section 426 of the identities protection Act:



you don't even need to use the word "served" outside of the USA, because Plame fits the second definition too.

I ask again, if Plume were Covert, WHY did Langley switchboard identify her as an employee of the CIA when asked by a reporter?

 

[Care4all]

If they accept that she was a covert agent then they will have to accept the Veep being a traitor imo.

And they will NEVER do that.... sadly, they'd rather risk our national security and an agent's life and the security of other CIA agents than to admit or even contemplate this.... imo

January 20 2009 can not get here quick enough as far as I am concerned.

 

[Truthmatters]

Armitage was not charged because he reported his comments right away and was shown not to realise she was covert.

To be charged with a crime it has to be proven you did it knowingly.

Fitzgerald has already said Libbys lies have shut down the attempt at getting to the facts of the case.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Armitage was not charged because he reported his comments right away and was shown not to realise she was covert.

To be charged with a crime it has to be proven you did it knowingly.

Fitzgerald has already said Libbys lies have shut down the attempt at getting to the facts of the case.

LOL, if Armitage "outed" her and has ADMITTED it, why are you and others insisting it was a nefarious plot by the White House? And you have JUST admitted Libby was prosecuted in an attempt to scare him into rolling over on someone more important.

Did you even consider that he couldn't roll on someone because the charge was incorrect?

 

[Shogun]

If they accept that she was a covert agent then they will have to accept the Veep being a traitor imo.

And they will NEVER do that.... sadly, they'd rather risk our national security and an agent's life and the security of other CIA agents than to admit or even contemplate this.... imo

January 20 2009 can not get here quick enough as far as I am concerned.

yea.. who needs accurate, objective intel anyway? It's not as if we NEED the truth when telling the nation about yellowcake and aluminium tubing so tht we could invade.. I bet alberto gonzoles and every new SCOTUS appointee agrees that she wasnt covert too.
SHOCKING.


talk about All the Presidents Men

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If they accept that she was a covert agent then they will have to accept the Veep being a traitor imo.

And they will NEVER do that.... sadly, they'd rather risk our national security and an agent's life and the security of other CIA agents than to admit or even contemplate this.... imo

January 20 2009 can not get here quick enough as far as I am concerned.

Another bald face lie. I repeat , are you aware that Armitage "outed" Plume? That Armitage is not a croony of the Vice President? That there is ZERO evidence to support your lie that the Vice President is a Traitor?

 

[Care4all]

Another bald face lie. I repeat , are you aware that Armitage "outed" Plume? That Armitage is not a croony of the Vice President? That there is ZERO evidence to support your lie that the Vice President is a Traitor?

I am aware that Armitage leaked this info too, that does not negate that Libby and Rove ALSO leaked the information to the Press regarding Valerie Plame. One does not negate the other.

Does one negate the other to you?

Armitage was involved in this from the beginning. He was the undersecretary of state that the trial transcripts point to as the point man in the State dept for info on Wilson, that was supplied to Libby for the Vice President.

I am glad that Plame added Armitage to her law suit....he was a part of this all along in my opinion. Fitzy thinks Armitage leaked the info ACCIDENTALLY, I personally do NOT believe such.

 

[Truthmatters]

LOL, if Armitage "outed" her and has ADMITTED it, why are you and others insisting it was a nefarious plot by the White House? And you have JUST admitted Libby was prosecuted in an attempt to scare him into rolling over on someone more important.

Did you even consider that he couldn't roll on someone because the charge was incorrect?

The thing is it was not just Armitage.

He was spared prosecution because he didnt know wshe was covert.

The others who did out her knew she was covert.

If you commit a crime and others commit the same crime does that mean only one should be prosecuted?

 

[DeadCanDance]

Another bald face lie. I repeat , are you aware that Armitage "outed" Plume? That Armitage is not a croony of the Vice President? That there is ZERO evidence to support your lie that the Vice President is a Traitor?

Armitage, Rove, and Libby all independently blabbed to reporters about Plame's classified status.