ok. I will ask. SunniMan.....

[CMike]

Damn Jeri, I wish I could rep you more.

 

[Derideo_Te]

My take on it is that I don't really care what is in the Koran. They can believe in what they want to and interpret their bible the way they want to.

I care about actions.

• I find it very concerning that some of the muslims in Dearborn celebrated 911.
  
• I find it very concerning that muslims publically celebrated the Boston Marathon terrorist attack.
  
• I find it very concerning that muslims elected a terrorist organization, Hamas, to represent them. Hamas intentionally targets civilians.
  
• I find it vey concerning that the muslim leadership can't allow one tiny little country, composed of jews, to live peacefully, even though it's on such a small sliver of land.
  
• I find it very concerning that the government of almost every muslim country is a brutal dictatorship.
  
• I find it very concerning that some of their leader publically state that it's okay to physically abuse women.
  
• I find it very concerning that muslims in judea and samaria intentionally target civilians to try and terror.
  
• I find it very concerning tha none of the muslim leadershp codemns arab terrorists attacking school buses, malls, movie theatres, restaurants, etc.
  
• I find it very concerning that even the muslim's here justify the intentional target of civilians to spread terror.

Aside from their actions, I don't care what their bible says.

I care about what they do.

Boston bombing: US Muslims react with fear, frustration, and new resolve - CSMonitor.com

Boston bombing: US Muslims react with fear, frustration, and new resolve
While Muslim Americans have condemned the Boston bombing, there's also been frustration with the perceived need to explain and apologize for the suspects. Some are emphasizing increased engagement by mosques.

NEW YORK
When the bombs at the Boston Marathon exploded a week ago Monday, a familiar chain of events and emotions unfolded for many in the American Muslim community: shock and grief, followed by an unspoken dread that the perpetrators could be Muslim; condemnation of the attack; fear of reprisals – and of being conflated with the acts of violence; and quietly, an inward examination of what went wrong.

It is a routine that Muslim communities in America know all too well – having trodden the same path after 9/11, the Fort Hood shootings, and other acts of violence associated with Islam. But it's a routine they've become increasingly weary of, frustrated that each violent act erases years of painstaking work building trust and becoming part of American civil society.

“We strive every day to be positive, useful and energetic contributors to our society, but all it takes is the acts of a couple of deranged murderers to ruin the reputation of 7 million people,” says Asad Ba-Yunus, a lawyer in Peekskill, N.Y., and a community activist, in an e-mail.

“This will put Islamophobia on steroids,” fears Muqtedar Khan, an associate professor of political science and international relations at the University of Delaware in Newark.

It is, in effect, a fight on American soil for the right to define Islam – with each bomb, shooting, and terrorist plot setting back the efforts of American Muslims to define themselves and to reclaim an embattled faith.

“It is time for us as American Muslims to provide an alternative to Muslim extremism; otherwise, we’ll be defined by it,” says Salam Al-Marayati, president of the Los Angeles-based Muslim Public Affairs Council. “That alternative is the moderate voice, the voice for reform, for the theology of life that Islam stands for as opposed to the cult of death that extremists promote through their distortions of Islam in their ideology.”

Reactions to the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim Americans
In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:[5]
American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.

Islamic world

Most Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the Presidents of Egypt (Hosni Mubarak), the Palestinian Authority (Yasser Arafat), Libya (Muammar Gaddafi), Syria (Bashar al-Assad), Iran (Mohamed Khatami) and Pakistan (Pervez Musharraf).[5][17] The sole exception was Iraq, when the then-president Saddam Hussein, said of the attacks that "the American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity".[18] Saddam would later offer sympathy to the Americans killed in the attacks.[19]
Renowned Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks and the unprovoked killings of thousands of American civilians as a "heinous crime" and urged Muslims to donate blood to the victims. He did, however, criticize the United States' "biased policy towards Israel" and also called on Muslims to "concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly", inside the Palestinian territories.[20] The alleged Hezbollah "spiritual mentor" and Lebanese Shia cleric Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah condemned the attacks.
Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, said he was not interested in exporting such attacks to the United States, however he criticized the "unfair American position".[21]
Afghanistan's Taliban rulers condemned the attacks and also vehemently rejected suggestions that Osama bin Laden, who had been given asylum in Afghanistan, could be behind them.[21]
Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at Tehran football stadium.[22][23]
The Sahrawi national liberation movement Polisario Front condemned the "criminal attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the USA and, particularly, against defenceless innocent civilians".[24]

 

[CMike]

What matters is what they say in Arabic, not English.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jeri excellent posts, as usual.

Ah. Thanks, Mike. I think the same of your posts. That post you wrote about Jewish law and giving your pillow to your slave?

I'm definitely not there yet but I cannot miss it that G-d uses the Jewish people as an example set before me of how I should be responding to others.

Somebody mentioned Hillel the other day. Had not read him. I looked him up and said, oh my gosh. This man has more wisdom then I have heard any man speak in my time. Who is this man?! Reading Hillel it is apparent he was deep well.

Men like Hillel are like the oars in the rowboat that get you out to the deeper waters. ( to set sail ) You otherwise could not get to the place of setting sail to make the journey. I'm looking forward to reading more of his writings.

- Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Damn Jeri, I wish I could rep you more.

Oh my gosh! Did you rep me? I didn't know of it, Mike. I am sorry! I cannot figure out how to work this little box to see where I read about reps. I did learn how to rep the other day with the thumbs up and gave one to someone.

I'll have to give you one also! Thanks for the rep, Mike! My apologies to anyone who repped me and I didn't say thank you! I have never seen who repped me but I did notice my number keeps going up. I know that is a good sign!

Thanks again, Mike!

-Jeri

 

[Dajjal]

Damn Jeri, I wish I could rep you more.

Oh my gosh! Did you rep me? I didn't know of it, Mike. I am sorry! I cannot figure out how to work this little box to see where I read about reps. I did learn how to rep the other day with the thumbs up and gave one to someone.

I'll have to give you one also! Thanks for the rep, Mike! My apologies to anyone who repped me and I didn't say thank you! I have never seen who repped me but I did notice my number keeps going up. I know that is a good sign!

Thanks again, Mike!

-Jeri

Just click on "user CP" at the top left of the page, and scroll down.

 

[CMike]

Jeri excellent posts, as usual.

Ah. Thanks, Mike. I think the same of your posts. That post you wrote about Jewish law and giving your pillow to your slave?

I'm definitely not there yet but I cannot miss it that G-d uses the Jewish people as an example set before me of how I should be responding to others.

Somebody mentioned Hillel the other day. Had not read him. I looked him up and said, oh my gosh. This man has more wisdom then I have heard any man speak in my time. Who is this man?! Reading Hillel it is apparent he was deep well.

Men like Hillel are like the oars in the rowboat that get you out to the deeper waters. ( to set sail ) You otherwise could not get to the place of setting sail to make the journey. I'm looking forward to reading more of his writings.

- Jeri

Within the same generation there were two really great rabbis.

One was Rabbi Hillel, and the other one was Rabbi Shammai. They each had their own schools.

In fact, a lot of the Talmud are Hillel and Shammai making their arguements, and finally it wraps up. However, we learn a lot from their arguements.

Shammai was usually stricter than Hillel.

Neither made law. They argued about interpretations.

For orthdox jews the Torah is jewish law, and the details are very important, so if unclear they had to hash it out.

You may like this it's called "Ethics of our Fathers."

Below is the link to Chapter 1. When finished with Chapter one, on the far right you can click on Chapter 2, and so on.

Each passage has a lot of wisdom in it.

Text of Chapter One - Texts & Writings

That will keep you busy for a while.

 

[CMike]

This is from Hillel which I like.

14. He would also say: If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You must think very little of G-D or not believe in him if you think the Torah was given to enslave the jews.

I agree with you, Mike. Although I have to tell you that some Christians believe this kind of nonsense because it is coming from the pulpit in their church! There is alot of false teaching out there these days and it saddens me to see people falling for it. On behalf of some ignorant ideas being taught out here please accept my sincere apology.

-Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jeri excellent posts, as usual.

Ah. Thanks, Mike. I think the same of your posts. That post you wrote about Jewish law and giving your pillow to your slave?

I'm definitely not there yet but I cannot miss it that G-d uses the Jewish people as an example set before me of how I should be responding to others.

Somebody mentioned Hillel the other day. Had not read him. I looked him up and said, oh my gosh. This man has more wisdom then I have heard any man speak in my time. Who is this man?! Reading Hillel it is apparent he was deep well.

Men like Hillel are like the oars in the rowboat that get you out to the deeper waters. ( to set sail ) You otherwise could not get to the place of setting sail to make the journey. I'm looking forward to reading more of his writings.

- Jeri

Within the same generation there were two really great rabbis.

One was Rabbi Hillel, and the other one was Rabbi Shammai. They each had their own schools.

In fact, a lot of the Talmud are Hillel and Shammai making their arguements, and finally it wraps up. However, we learn a lot from their arguements.

Shammai was usually stricter than Hillel.

Neither made law. They argued about interpretations.

For orthdox jews the Torah is jewish law, and the details are very important, so if unclear they had to hash it out.

You may like this it's called "Ethics of our Fathers."

Below is the link to Chapter 1. When finished with Chapter one, on the far right you can click on Chapter 2, and so on.

Each passage has a lot of wisdom in it.

Text of Chapter One - Texts & Writings

That will keep you busy for a while.

Thank you!

 

[CMike]

I was reading this last week.

It's on "Love your neighbor, like yourself." I think jesus preached that as well.

It's long though.

Sefer Chabibi Deepest Torah: KEDOSHIM: LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

 

[Dajjal]

Jesus says love your neighbour several times in the new testament, but he also says love your enemies.

Lu:6:27: But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Damn Jeri, I wish I could rep you more.

Oh my gosh! Did you rep me? I didn't know of it, Mike. I am sorry! I cannot figure out how to work this little box to see where I read about reps. I did learn how to rep the other day with the thumbs up and gave one to someone.

I'll have to give you one also! Thanks for the rep, Mike! My apologies to anyone who repped me and I didn't say thank you! I have never seen who repped me but I did notice my number keeps going up. I know that is a good sign!

Thanks again, Mike!

-Jeri

Just click on "user CP" at the top left of the page, and scroll down.

okay. thanks, Dajjal.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Jesus says love your neighbour several times in the new testament, but he also says love your enemies.

Lu:6:27: But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Right. Which is greater? To know what Jesus said or to be doing what Jesus said?

The reason I ask is because I do see the Israelis have loved their enemies and done good to those who hated them without a cause - they take them into their hospitals and give them medical care without any biast. They show love, care and concern for those who have been caught in the middle of this conflict concerning Gaza - Hamas - Israel - they seek to find understanding and dialogue where others would have given up long ago.

To me this is the evidence they are fulfilling that command without ever bringing any attention to themselves. It is to me very Christlike behavior and if I had to measure our own response collectively ( by actual historical accounts ) to such trials it wouldn't measure up to theirs. imo.

We have alot to learn yet.

 

[CMike]

You must think very little of G-D or not believe in him if you think the Torah was given to enslave the jews.

I agree with you, Mike. Although I have to tell you that some Christians believe this kind of nonsense because it is coming from the pulpit in their church! There is alot of false teaching out there these days and it saddens me to see people falling for it. On behalf of some ignorant ideas being taught out here please accept my sincere apology.

-Jeri

I apologize to you.

I feel that I can be rather harsh responding to people that could and probably do insult your christian beliefs.

I am sorry.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You must think very little of G-D or not believe in him if you think the Torah was given to enslave the jews.

I agree with you, Mike. Although I have to tell you that some Christians believe this kind of nonsense because it is coming from the pulpit in their church! There is alot of false teaching out there these days and it saddens me to see people falling for it. On behalf of some ignorant ideas being taught out here please accept my sincere apology.

-Jeri

I apologize to you.

I feel that I can be rather harsh responding to people that could and probably do insult your christian beliefs.

I am sorry.

its ok, Mike. I know I have some rough edges when I read what I write to muslims and atheists at times. I am sorry muslims and atheists. G-d is working on me.

 

[CMike]

You must think very little of G-D or not believe in him if you think the Torah was given to enslave the jews.

I agree with you, Mike. Although I have to tell you that some Christians believe this kind of nonsense because it is coming from the pulpit in their church! There is alot of false teaching out there these days and it saddens me to see people falling for it. On behalf of some ignorant ideas being taught out here please accept my sincere apology.

-Jeri

So many seem to know so much about so little.

 

[emilynghiem]

European Courts are Not the civil authority over muslims or Islam in their countries.

It's is just another example of the Western nations trying to force their colonial mindset and norms on sovereign and independent people. ..

Not in foreign countries,
but in Great Britain then those courts and the people's consent under natural laws
should have jurisdiction
And in the US
the Constitutional laws and the people's consent should have authority

So I agree with you that the LOCAL civil authorities
should have jurisdiction in their respective countries.

NOTE: in case of conflicts, if a country cannot resolve its issues by consensus,
but abuse of force is used to oppress dissent, that is where the natural laws
about the people's right to petition may SPILL OUT into the public media
and invoke the assistance of others to come in and mediate to resolve the conflict by consent.

So Sunni if you are truly against war and terrorism, and do NOT want interference
by outside authorities into the local affairs and practice of people within a nation,
then CONFLICTS must be resolved PEACEABLY by consent of those people
so they protect their own sovereignty. So this is another reason you would support
resolving conflicts by due process democratically and reaching an agreement to resolve
any dispute, either using Mohammad's teachings on democratic principles, or Constitutional
or Christian laws. You would not go around projecting blame and responsibility "on others" in ways that perpetuate conflict, since this weakens the power of people to exercise autonomy and self-government. If you project more blame on the US foreign policy, or you project more blame personally on "other people" such as "other Christians", this is the type of attitude that weakens sovereignty and autonomy and divides people so it is easier to oppress and conquer.
The more you unite with all sides and views around you to SOLVE PROBLEMS TOGETHER, that is where the true power is to free people from division and oppression and ends attacks.

I hope you see this more and more, this mutual self-empowerment from uniting with others.
When you see that "united we stand, divided we fall" includes all people equally as yourself, you will get what the real battle the real "spiritual jihad" or struggle for peace is really about.

 

[Gracie]

Jeremiah and Cmike.....you both have done a wonderful job in talking back and forth and being so polite and understanding of each other. Kudos to you both.

 

[emilynghiem]

Oh yea! I offer my posts about the quran to the forum for their conclusions.

Here is some more logic. The quran says if it were not from God you would find in it, contradictions.
The quran goes on to say God is merciful. Then it gives lots of verses that say God will burn unbelievers in eternal hellfire. What is merciful about that? A clear and absolute contradiction.

Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six, Leo Tolstoy.

Dear Dajjal: You are right for God to be merciful, God would prevent people from burning in hell. If you can equate war with hell on earth, then you can see there HAS been war and people were NOT saved in time from suffering from it. So hell does happen this way.

What saves us from hell is forgiveness, so we can correct things and not react by retribution, judgment and punishment to escalate wrongs further.

God does give us this choice, to live by mercy and be granted mercy.
To choose to fight or kill by the sword and die by the sword as a consequence.

We do have the choice to go to war, which leads to hell.
We do have the choice to fight for peace, which is a personal struggle to make peace
in our relationshps and in our minds so our words also come out as making peace.

This is the battle we are fighting now, and it is completely civil if we so choose.
Thank you for fighting civilly, I appreciate your citations and ocmments
and do believe with your help we can make peace and reach a solid understanding here.

I see everyone here as fighting on the side of truth, so as we are all fighting for
the same thing, of course we will win. We will conquer whatever misconceptions or misteachings are in the way of establishing the common truth we all are driving toward.
Sunni, Irish, you and me, I see all of us are committed to establishing and defending truth.
So God will prevail, as we are all asking for God's truth to be revealed and anything
false to be removed from the equation. Thank you again and I pray all the wisdom
you have to share will be duly received and appreciated!

Yours truly,
Emily