Oklahoma banned students could sue the college and win big

[Freewill]

The idea that when you're a student you have the right to say anything you want, any time, under any circumstances,

and be protected from any consequences is so absurd that it's hard to believe anyone could even think that.

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

Maybe you should have bothered to read the OP:

"Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say..."

The issue is whether OU had the right to expell them. SAE was perfectly justified in shutting down the chapter, but the actions of OU are a totally different issue.

Is there anything any group could say that you would think that the school should act upon? What if this bus were returning from a KKK midnight cross burning, would the school be able to then act upon that situation? You and I both know there are limits to what a person can say, I don't need to bring up yelling fire in a movie theater.

Do you agree that a school, or anyone else, has the right to refuse services? Ever?

A government institution which is what a University is classified as CANNOT prohibit free speech. Period.

What is going on you moron is that you want to this PUBLIC university to be a PRIVATE university SO BAD so you can have a POINT, but it's NOT going to happen. STOP TROLLING.

NO, what I said was that as soon as they threaten people they have crossed the line. What is it you don't understand? The University is trying to protect its image. If they allowed racist THREATS to stand then that would indicate they support those racist THREATS, no matter how benign the threats. The separation is action verses thought. In other words, I can condemn a movie theater all I want, every day if want. But to go into that theater and shout fire could result in harm. Thus that speech is limited. And in reality the first amendment was intended for speech against the government, not to protect speech that hurt or incited violence.

Do you agree or disagree that a company, university or individual has the right to express their standards and beliefs and enforce those standards and beliefs as long as they are enforced equally? I am really not sure I see the difference you are trying to make between public and private.

 

[Carla_Danger]

OU basically just shut down free speech.

They practiced their free speech, and now they are paying the consequences of their free speech.

Got you down as another for limitations on speech. Thanks.

No one is limiting free speech, you doofus. Do you not understand the First Amendment? First Amendment rights means the Government shall not infringe upon citizens right to say and write what they want. It does NOT protect citizens against penalties for harming reputations, or from being punished for insulting others. The First Amendment will not save your job, or save you from getting kicked out of school over racial slurs.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Truth of the matter is every student could be ejected if filmed enough.

No they can't. Not for talking. If they are they can sue and WIN BIG. This university can literally go bankrupt with what they have done if enough students sue them and they opened a wide open door for them to do just that.

Using same nebulous reason the others were yes they could.

 

[Freewill]

The idea that when you're a student you have the right to say anything you want, any time, under any circumstances,

and be protected from any consequences is so absurd that it's hard to believe anyone could even think that.

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

My position is that the government and its agents cannot restrict or punish speech based solely on content. SAE was perfectly justified in shutting down the chapter, but the University would not have been.

and thats the point, either we have free speech or we don't. If what you say offends someone, tough shit. Lots of stuff said by the left offends me, but I would fight for their right to say it.

who got kicked out of school for rioting in Ferguson and screaming "kill the cops" " kill whitey" ? No one.

of course most of the rioters were not in any school to get kicked out of.

In my opinion it is the school's choice to refuse service. The students have the right to say what they want but there may be a price to pay for that right.

What I look for is equality in enforcement, which I do not see.

exactly, would the media blitz be the same if it was a black fraternity, chanting about not having any white members?

Maybe, I don't know, but I do believe the reaction of the school and the left wing would be quite different.

 

[Redfish]

If there wasn't a code or rule being violated, then the college just censored free speech and on top of it slandered these students reputation by publicizing this situation in the way that they did, and potentially did financial harm to them.

It's a "public" university. Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say under article 1 of the constitution.

on what do you base the fallacious assessment above?

there are always character and morals requirements at school.

but good luck with that argument.

no there are not. show us something from any state university that contains character and morals as a basis for expelling.

 

[hangover]

Hate speech is like yelling "fire!" in a movie theater when there isn't one....It's illegal.
Do you think colleges should allow the KKK and neo-nazis to have fraternities?

This not about fraternities which they were within legal bounds to close down. Expelling them for having a voice no matter what was said is against federal law because it's against the constitution. Private universities can do this. Public ones are bound by the free speech laws of the Constitution.

Disrupting the studies of students with hate speech is a tactic of ISIS. you really want to try to win that one in court?

 

[Redfish]

The idea that when you're a student you have the right to say anything you want, any time, under any circumstances,

and be protected from any consequences is so absurd that it's hard to believe anyone could even think that.

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

My position is that the government and its agents cannot restrict or punish speech based solely on content. SAE was perfectly justified in shutting down the chapter, but the University would not have been.

and thats the point, either we have free speech or we don't. If what you say offends someone, tough shit. Lots of stuff said by the left offends me, but I would fight for their right to say it.

who got kicked out of school for rioting in Ferguson and screaming "kill the cops" " kill whitey" ? No one.

of course most of the rioters were not in any school to get kicked out of.

In my opinion it is the school's choice to refuse service. The students have the right to say what they want but there may be a price to pay for that right.

What I look for is equality in enforcement, which I do not see.

exactly, would the media blitz be the same if it was a black fraternity, chanting about not having any white members?

Maybe, I don't know, but I do believe the reaction of the school and the left wing would be quite different.

it would not have even made the news. there are black fraternities, jewish fraternities, etc. Should they be forced to have white and Christian members?

 

[hangover]

Hate speech is like yelling "fire!" in a movie theater when there isn't one....It's illegal.
Do you think colleges should allow the KKK and neo-nazis to have fraternities?

They allow black organizations.

They allow young republican organizations too.....until they do what SAE did.

 

[Redfish]

The idea that when you're a student you have the right to say anything you want, any time, under any circumstances,

and be protected from any consequences is so absurd that it's hard to believe anyone could even think that.

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

Maybe you should have bothered to read the OP:

"Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say..."

Saying that free speech is a right granted to every citizen no mattter what they say is not the same as saying that you have the right to say anything you want any time under any circumstances.

this is not the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

 

[Redfish]

Hate speech is like yelling "fire!" in a movie theater when there isn't one....It's illegal.
Do you think colleges should allow the KKK and neo-nazis to have fraternities?

They allow black organizations.

They allow young republican organizations too.

should the young republicans be forced to accept democrats?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

OU basically just shut down free speech.

They practiced their free speech, and now they are paying the consequences of their free speech.

Got you down as another for limitations on speech. Thanks.

No one is limiting free speech, you doofus. Do you not understand the First Amendment? First Amendment rights means the Government shall not infringe upon citizens right to say and write what they want. It does NOT protect citizens against penalties for harming reputations, or from being punished for insulting others. The First Amendment will not save your job, or save you from getting kicked out of school over racial slurs.

Ahhh, but you're down with the govt squashing the rights of a baker in colorado. Scurry along. You've just outed yourself.

 

[Roudy]

This whole thing is ridiculous. Yes, the boys were bigotted, and yes their chant was disgusting, but if every time a bunch of college students got drink or high and said or did stupid things they were expelled, there wouldnt be many kids left in college. College is the time for young people to experiment and do stupid things.

 

[Judicial review]

If there wasn't a code or rule being violated, then the college just censored free speech and on top of it slandered these students reputation by publicizing this situation in the way that they did, and potentially did financial harm to them.

It's a "public" university. Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say under article 1 of the constitution.

They were expelled, according to David Boren, the OU President, for violating school rules, which forbid students from creating a hostile environment for other students.

That will in no way hold up in court with the video that went public that was cited by the university itself. That is way to broad of a brush and a judge will throw that right out and side with the defendants for violation of free speech. It's not about what was said it's about the fact that the University is saying you cannot say what we deem wrong, so you will be held accountable and be expelled.

2 points,

1.) A university cannot have a rule that censors ANY student from saying what he or she want to say no matter what it is, and that is backed up by the constitution free speech.

2.) A student cannot be silenced by a PUBLIC University for saying what is on his or her mind no matter what was said. Period.

 

[Redfish]

Exactly.

Nobody arrested them

They didn't stomp on anybody's rights, so they broke no laws. They are innocent. What reason did the university have to expel them?

Violation of the schools code of conduct

Gee, weren't they off-campus and in a closed, private bus?
How far does a code-of-conduct reach?

It was an SAE event

SAE is a fraternal organization resident at OU and sanctioned by the parent organization and the university
What has been shown is that this racist chant was taught to new members and had been performed many times. As can be seen on the tape, this was a very popular song....lynching negroes and all

Both the SAE parent organization and university acknowleged this is not the type of organization they want on campus

Ok, so kick the fraternity off campus, but expelling students is another matter.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

So should a rap song with the lyrics "kill whitey" be banned on campus?

 

[Redfish]

The idea that when you're a student you have the right to say anything you want, any time, under any circumstances,

and be protected from any consequences is so absurd that it's hard to believe anyone could even think that.

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

Maybe you should have bothered to read the OP:

"Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say..."

The issue is whether OU had the right to expell them. SAE was perfectly justified in shutting down the chapter, but the actions of OU are a totally different issue.

Is there anything any group could say that you would think that the school should act upon? What if this bus were returning from a KKK midnight cross burning, would the school be able to then act upon that situation? You and I both know there are limits to what a person can say, I don't need to bring up yelling fire in a movie theater.

Do you agree that a school, or anyone else, has the right to refuse services? Ever?

Well, before I answer that one, does a florist have the right to refuse service? ever?

 

[Judicial review]

Gee imagine my shock at seeing that JR doesn't understand the issue here.

Free Speech only applies to the government passing laws limiting speech, it has NOTHING to do with college rules and regulations.

Public universities are bound by freedom of speech as is stated in the US Constitution. It's is under the umbrella of what is a Governent institution.

 

[hangover]

The bigots on this thread are like the SAE member that was expelled for singing the "N" word, and then claiming he isn't a racist.

 

[pinqy]

I don't think anyone is entertaining that idea.

Maybe you should have bothered to read the OP:

"Free speech could have been violated a right granted to every citizen no matter what they say..."

The issue is whether OU had the right to expell them. SAE was perfectly justified in shutting down the chapter, but the actions of OU are a totally different issue.

Is there anything any group could say that you would think that the school should act upon? What if this bus were returning from a KKK midnight cross burning, would the school be able to then act upon that situation? You and I both know there are limits to what a person can say, I don't need to bring up yelling fire in a movie theater.

Do you agree that a school, or anyone else, has the right to refuse services? Ever?

A government institution which is what a University is classified as CANNOT prohibit free speech. Period.

What is going on you moron is that you want to this PUBLIC university to be a PRIVATE university SO BAD so you can have a POINT, but it's NOT going to happen. STOP TROLLING.

NO, what I said was that as soon as they threaten people they have crossed the line. What is it you don't understand? The University is trying to protect its image. If they allowed racist THREATS to stand then that would indicate they support those racist THREATS, no matter how benign the threats. The separation is action verses thought. In other words, I can condemn a movie theater all I want, every day if want. But to go into that theater and shout fire could result in harm. Thus that speech is limited. And in reality the first amendment was intended for speech against the government, not to protect speech that hurt or incited violence.

Do you agree or disagree that a company, university or individual has the right to express their standards and beliefs and enforce those standards and beliefs as long as they are enforced equally? I am really not sure I see the difference you are trying to make between public and private.

Does the song constitute a credible threat? I doubt it. The song was not sung at or towards Black students nor does it seem that the frat members would actualy linch a student.

 

[Freewill]

Hate speech is like yelling "fire!" in a movie theater when there isn't one....It's illegal.
Do you think colleges should allow the KKK and neo-nazis to have fraternities?

They allow black organizations.

They allow young republican organizations too.....until they do what SAE did.

Being black and being Republican are way different things why is it that the left always want to conjoin the two?