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Not what I said at all.
I've not claimed that Obama's birth certificate was ever verified by a government official as part of the election process. No law in any of the 50 states at the time required Obama submit his birth record to any Secretary of State. In my mind his status is "unknown" as it pertains to the election process. Outside of that process officials from the State of Hawaii have verified that the information released in an unofficial manner is true, but that's beside the point.
The point is that all candidates for elective office should submit proof they meet the qualifications for such office so that election officials can verify them against established criteria. The system failed during the 2008 election because the system DID NOT REQUIRE the submission of such documents.
>>>>
Simple question for you to answer? Who verified the document? Was it a government offical? Hasn't it been proven they can and have issued fraudulent docuemnts?
The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Not what I said at all.
That was your intet to say that because it has a state sealk and certified by the state it cannot be a fraudulent document.
As I have already proven government officals can and have issued fradulent documents in the past.
Not what I said. Just because a document has a seal, does not mean it is not fraudulent. If it is issued under the proper laws and procedures then it is not fraudulent, it is evidence as to the fact presented.
If I create a fraudulent document to look like an official one, then it is not issued under proper authority and it is fraudulent.
If I present a fraudulent birth certificate to the State of Virginia and obtain a drivers license, yes it is a valid drivers license. I officially have permission to drive from the State of Virginia. Another State does not have the authority to say - no you don't have authority from Virginia to drive. Now if the fact that I presented fraudulent documents to Virginia is discovered, then Virginia can revoke that drivers license and very likely prosecute me under the law for identity theft or forgery.
>>>>
It has been mention before that two staff members from fact chek have verified the document in 2008. The director of the hawaii health depertment has verified the document.The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Simple question for you to answer? Who verified the document? Was it a government offical? Hasn't it been proven they can and have issued fraudulent docuemnts?
The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Not what I said. Just because a document has a seal, does not mean it is not fraudulent. If it is issued under the proper laws and procedures then it is not fraudulent, it is evidence as to the fact presented.
If I create a fraudulent document to look like an official one, then it is not issued under proper authority and it is fraudulent.
If I present a fraudulent birth certificate to the State of Virginia and obtain a drivers license, yes it is a valid drivers license. I officially have permission to drive from the State of Virginia. Another State does not have the authority to say - no you don't have authority from Virginia to drive. Now if the fact that I presented fraudulent documents to Virginia is discovered, then Virginia can revoke that drivers license and very likely prosecute me under the law for identity theft or forgery.
>>>>
It has been mention before that two staff members from fact chek have verified the document in 2008. The director of the hawaii health depertment has verified the document.The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Nope the government would never issue a fraudulent document
Fraud by U.S. Department of State Fraud Prevention Investigators
at U.S. Embassies and Consulates, and Forensics Document Laboratory (FDL) Forensics Document Examiners
Both this agency and country-specific experts have uncovered fraud attributable to Department of State Desk Officers in Washington, D.C. and Fraud Prevention Investigators, both employed by and operating out of the U.S. Consulate in Guangzhou, People's Republic of China (PRC), and U.S. Embassies located in Tirana, Albania; Kathmandu, Nepal; Minsk, Belarus; Moscow, Russia; Baku, Azerbaijan; Yaoundé, Cameroon; Lome, Togo; and Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Individuals with extensive and intimate knowledge of issuing entity-specific, foreign government issued documents continue to express concern regarding what some dismiss as, either faulty, or sloppy, and others condemn as outright fraudulent, the analysis and unfounded conclusions presented to and accepted as authoritative by Immigration Judges by Fraud Prevention Investigators, their surrogates (ie. Winston Mann, Team Leader, Office of Multilateral and Global Affairs) at the Department of State, and forensics document analysts affiliated with the Virginia based Forensics Document Laboratory (FDL).
Fraud by U.S. Department of State
The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Not what I said. Just because a document has a seal, does not mean it is not fraudulent. If it is issued under the proper laws and procedures then it is not fraudulent, it is evidence as to the fact presented.
If I create a fraudulent document to look like an official one, then it is not issued under proper authority and it is fraudulent.
If I present a fraudulent birth certificate to the State of Virginia and obtain a drivers license, yes it is a valid drivers license. I officially have permission to drive from the State of Virginia. Another State does not have the authority to say - no you don't have authority from Virginia to drive. Now if the fact that I presented fraudulent documents to Virginia is discovered, then Virginia can revoke that drivers license and very likely prosecute me under the law for identity theft or forgery.
>>>>
It has been mention before that two staff members from fact chek have verified the document in 2008. The director of the hawaii health depertment has verified the document.The "documents" has only been posted online, no one has verified it as it was not required to submitted to any Secretary of State for verification. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Nope the government would never issue a fraudulent document
Fraud by U.S. Department of State Fraud Prevention Investigators
at U.S. Embassies and Consulates, and Forensics Document Laboratory (FDL) Forensics Document Examiners
Both this agency and country-specific experts have uncovered fraud attributable to Department of State Desk Officers in Washington, D.C. and Fraud Prevention Investigators, both employed by and operating out of the U.S. Consulate in Guangzhou, People's Republic of China (PRC), and U.S. Embassies located in Tirana, Albania; Kathmandu, Nepal; Minsk, Belarus; Moscow, Russia; Baku, Azerbaijan; Yaoundé, Cameroon; Lome, Togo; and Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Individuals with extensive and intimate knowledge of issuing entity-specific, foreign government issued documents continue to express concern regarding what some dismiss as, either faulty, or sloppy, and others condemn as outright fraudulent, the analysis and unfounded conclusions presented to and accepted as authoritative by Immigration Judges by Fraud Prevention Investigators, their surrogates (ie. Winston Mann, Team Leader, Office of Multilateral and Global Affairs) at the Department of State, and forensics document analysts affiliated with the Virginia based Forensics Document Laboratory (FDL).
Fraud by U.S. Department of State
So your point is that because fraud has occurred, that no document issued by any government entity is acceptable?
Sorry, the real world doesn't work that way.
>>>>
Yes...why won't that darn darkie grovel and do what you tell him to do?I'll say what I have said all along... why not just put the damned thing out there and shut everybody up?
Something is obviously amiss. After all, it is only a birth certificate... what's the big secret? I needed one to get a drivers license.
Yes...why won't that darn darkie grovel and do what you tell him to do?I'll say what I have said all along... why not just put the damned thing out there and shut everybody up?
Something is obviously amiss. After all, it is only a birth certificate... what's the big secret? I needed one to get a drivers license.
all i had to do was find one copy of a long form birth certificate from hawaii, 1961. i did not find one.
long form birth certificate hawaii 1961 - Google Search
now that we know it can be copied...
So your position now is that pictures on the interwebs are not OK?
BTW - what Hawaii may have issued in the past does not mean they are what they issue now. Ya know with computer's and electronic creation of documents and all.
i was being facetious. same with the "this is real crack" it's like a coin that has 55 "bc" as the date. what i was saying is the non birthers, say it can't be released, so i figured if even one copied is on the web, that's no excuse.
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ? why do you think he's stalling ?
all i had to do was find one copy of a long form birth certificate from hawaii, 1961. i did not find one.
long form birth certificate hawaii 1961 - Google Search
now that we know it can be copied...
So your position now is that pictures on the interwebs are not OK?
BTW - what Hawaii may have issued in the past does not mean they are what they issue now. Ya know with computer's and electronic creation of documents and all.
i was being facetious. same with the "this is real crack" it's like a coin that has 55 "bc" as the date. what i was saying is the non birthers, say it can't be released, so i figured if even one copied is on the web, that's no excuse.
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ? why do you think he's stalling ?
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ? why do you think he's stalling
Yet he can't or refuses to give a logical explaination for why obamas BC is the only BC that shows it was not accepted by the state registrar of 1961
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ?
why do you think he's stalling ?
Yet he can't or refuses to give a logical explaination for why obamas BC is the only BC that shows it was not accepted by the state registrar of 1961
Yet he can't or refuses to give a logical explaination for why obamas BC is the only BC that shows it was not accepted by the state registrar of 1961
That's a lie BR, you were given the reasons last night and this morning. -->> http://www.usmessageboard.com/3567582-post64.html
The reason is that is the information the Federal Government now requires on COLB's.
"A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes."
United State Department of State, Passport Application Requirements
>>>>
According to tim adams former Senior Elections Clerk for Honolulu, Says Barack Obama was Not Born in Hawaii
The Weekly has obtained a copy of an email sent to fellow conservatives this week by Marilyn Davenport, a Southern California Tea Party activist and member of the central committee of the Orange County Republican Party.
Under the words, "Now you know why no birth certificate," there's an Obama family portrait showing them as apes.
(Donald Trump must be elated to finally have an explanation about Obama's true birth circumstances.)
[UPDATED: Baugh is Powerless] Racist Orange County Republican Email: President Obama and His Parents Are Apes - Orange County News - Navel Gazing
According to tim adams former Senior Elections Clerk for Honolulu, Says Barack Obama was Not Born in Hawaii
Tim Adams was a temp employee hired to work the election season for ballot purposes. He was not part of Hawaii's Department of Health, nor was he a "Senior Elections Clerk" he was a temp.
>>>>
According to tim adams former Senior Elections Clerk for Honolulu, Says Barack Obama was Not Born in Hawaii
Tim Adams was a temp employee hired to work the election season for ballot purposes. He was not part of Hawaii's Department of Health, nor was he a "Senior Elections Clerk" he was a temp.
>>>>
That can be easly proved, prove he was just a temp. helper who was not the Senior Elections Clerk. After all he did say there were some who did not like what he said, even though he said obama had a short from BC.
Tim Adams was a temp employee hired to work the election season for ballot purposes. He was not part of Hawaii's Department of Health, nor was he a "Senior Elections Clerk" he was a temp.
>>>>
That can be easly proved, prove he was just a temp. helper who was not the Senior Elections Clerk. After all he did say there were some who did not like what he said, even though he said obama had a short from BC.
I stand correcte, that's what I get for going from memory, his title was "Senior Elections Clerk", however he was a temp.
WND confirmed with Hawaiian officials that Adams was indeed working in their election offices during the last presidential election.
"His title was senior elections clerk in 2008," said Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the city and county of Honolulu.
Takahashi also confirmed Adams' time frame at the office from spring until the month of August.
"We hire temporary workers, because we're seasonal," he said.
However, when WND asked Takahashi if the elections office could check on birth records, he said, "We don't have access to that kind of records. [There's] no access to birth records."
Read more: Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here Hawaii elections clerk: Obama not born here
>>>>
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ?
No, I was in Electronic Intelligence.
Probably because of years of gathering and evaluating information, I tend to go into non-emotional mode and look for answers to questions. I tend to stay out of threads that are nothing more than shit storms and I like those that have a factor that requires research and evaluation of the law. I'm Republican and don't like the man or his policies, but that doesn't mean I will compromise my understanding of the law (which I'm sometimes wrong with BTW) in the name of partisan hackery.
why do you think he's stalling ?
Political reasons. He is my answer when you asked last night what my gut was telling me. You may not have seen it.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/3566827-post44.html
>>>>
so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ?
No, I was in Electronic Intelligence.
Probably because of years of gathering and evaluating information, I tend to go into non-emotional mode and look for answers to questions. I tend to stay out of threads that are nothing more than shit storms and I like those that have a factor that requires research and evaluation of the law. I'm Republican and don't like the man or his policies, but that doesn't mean I will compromise my understanding of the law (which I'm sometimes wrong with BTW) in the name of partisan hackery.
why do you think he's stalling ?
Political reasons. He is my answer when you asked last night what my gut was telling me. You may not have seen it.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/3566827-post44.html
>>>>
i went back and read (and reread) everything yuo wrote. there is no doubt in my mind that you are the most informed, rational and knowledgable "resident authority" on this board, on this issue.
with repect to obama's political strategy, won't people resent him using this as political capital/footbal, when he could just be transparent? if it's an october surprise, wouldn't people challenge him in saying he could have prevented wasted time, rallies etc. ? thanks for going to the trouble to write that, it's pretty awesome.
i guess my contention remains, is it a reflection of his character, is this a pattern (past associations, college transcripts, law review submissions etc...) ?? is it unreasonable to continue to ask him to show it ??
with respect to moving on, is it unreasonable to assume that if he is re-elected, that he was just given a by, wouldn't that precurse the "letter of the law"?
No, I was in Electronic Intelligence.
Probably because of years of gathering and evaluating information, I tend to go into non-emotional mode and look for answers to questions. I tend to stay out of threads that are nothing more than shit storms and I like those that have a factor that requires research and evaluation of the law. I'm Republican and don't like the man or his policies, but that doesn't mean I will compromise my understanding of the law (which I'm sometimes wrong with BTW) in the name of partisan hackery.
Political reasons. He is my answer when you asked last night what my gut was telling me. You may not have seen it.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/3566827-post44.html
>>>>
i went back and read (and reread) everything yuo wrote. there is no doubt in my mind that you are the most informed, rational and knowledgable "resident authority" on this board, on this issue.
with repect to obama's political strategy, won't people resent him using this as political capital/footbal, when he could just be transparent? if it's an october surprise, wouldn't people challenge him in saying he could have prevented wasted time, rallies etc. ? thanks for going to the trouble to write that, it's pretty awesome.
i guess my contention remains, is it a reflection of his character, is this a pattern (past associations, college transcripts, law review submissions etc...) ?? is it unreasonable to continue to ask him to show it ??
with respect to moving on, is it unreasonable to assume that if he is re-elected, that he was just given a by, wouldn't that precurse the "letter of the law"?
First of all thank you.
"won't people resent him using this as political capital/footbal, when he could just be transparent? if it's an october surprise, wouldn't people challenge him in saying he could have prevented wasted time, rallies etc. ?"
There are a lot of sheeple out there, personally I think it would have very little impact on the Left 40% and the Right 40%. The main stream media would have a big impact on how it is viewed by the middle 20% and I would bet $100 that the media would assist him in playing the victim card and help him garner the sympathy vote.
"i guess my contention remains, is it a reflection of his character, is this a pattern (past associations, college transcripts, law review submissions etc...) ??"
Of course it is, to you and I. But there are millions of voters out there that don't really care and have written the issue off as right-wing extremism.
" is it unreasonable to continue to ask him to show it ??"
I don't think so, it's a win/win for him (IMHO) and a lose/lose for Republicans.
What should be done is for every State in the union to pass well crafted laws that require ALL elected officials provide documented, verifiable evidence that they meet to qualification requirements for the office they seek. That for any office requiring citizenship, such documentation be included with legislation (or release) that lets the Secretary of State verify the authenticity of the document with the originating government entity.
Don't make it about attacking the man, make it about improving the process.
"with respect to moving on, is it unreasonable to assume that if he is re-elected, that he was just given a by, wouldn't that precurse the "letter of the law"?"
It appears he followed the laws in existance at the time. No law required the submission of documented evidence to hold office. The problem was with the system, and now he's using it to his advantage. We need to fix the system.
But what do I know, I'm just a retired enlisted puke.
>>>>
It appears he followed the laws in existance at the time. No law required the submission of documented evidence to hold office. The problem was with the system, and now he's using it to his advantage. We need to fix the system
So your contention is that Obama should release his long form birth control so stupid people don't have rallies?so far ww you seem to be the most knowlegable on the facts of the case on this board. were you jag corp in the navy ?
No, I was in Electronic Intelligence.
Probably because of years of gathering and evaluating information, I tend to go into non-emotional mode and look for answers to questions. I tend to stay out of threads that are nothing more than shit storms and I like those that have a factor that requires research and evaluation of the law. I'm Republican and don't like the man or his policies, but that doesn't mean I will compromise my understanding of the law (which I'm sometimes wrong with BTW) in the name of partisan hackery.
why do you think he's stalling ?
Political reasons. He is my answer when you asked last night what my gut was telling me. You may not have seen it.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/3566827-post44.html
>>>>
i went back and read (and reread) everything yuo wrote. there is no doubt in my mind that you are the most informed, rational and knowledgable "resident authority" on this board, on this issue.
with repect to obama's political strategy, won't people resent him using this as political capital/footbal, when he could just be transparent? if it's an october surprise, wouldn't people challenge him in saying he could have prevented wasted time, rallies etc. ? thanks for going to the trouble to write that, it's pretty awesome.
i guess my contention remains, is it a reflection of his character, is this a pattern (past associations, college transcripts, law review submissions etc...) ?? is it unreasonable to continue to ask him to show it ??
with respect to moving on, is it unreasonable to assume that if he is re-elected, that he was just given a by, wouldn't that precurse the "letter of the law"?
