Origins of Palestinians and Jews in Palestine/Israel

[Coyote]

Why should we believe a "Catholic Encyclopaedia"? The city of Jeruselum was the only region that had a Jewish majority population.

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

Wrong it was the sanjak of Jerusalem that took in part or what is now Jordan, the upper part of what is Israel extending down to gaza. Just leaving the Negev as not counted in any census. It is an informed historical report drawn up by the Ottomans and the LoN that every member of team Palestine wants to debunk and cant without re-writing history.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim or Jewish "relative majority"

Between 1838 and 1876, conflicting estimates exist regarding whether Muslims or Jews constituted a "relative majority" (or plurality) in the city.


Writing in 1841, the biblical scholar Edward Robinson noted the conflicting demographic estimates regarding Jerusalem during the period, stating in reference to an 1839 estimate by Moses Montefiore: "As to the Jews, the enumeration in question was made out by themselves, in the expectation of receiving a certain amount of alms for every name returned. It is therefore obvious that they here had as strong a motive to exaggerate their number, as they often have in other circumstances to underrate it."[17] In 1843, Reverend F.C. Ewald, a Christian traveler visiting Jerusalem, reported an influx of 150 Jews from Algiers. He wrote that there were now a large number of Jews from the coast of Africa who were forming a separate congregation.[18]


Between 1856 and 1880, Jewish immigration to Palestine more than doubled, with the majority settling in Jerusalem.[19] The majority of these immigrants were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe, who subsisted on Halukka.[19]


In 1881–82, a group of Jews arrived from Yemen as a result of messianic fervor.[20][21] After living in the Old City for several years, they moved to the hills facing the City of David, where they lived in caves.[22] In 1884, the community, numbering 200, moved to new stone houses built for them by a Jewish charity.[23]​

This same Wikipedia source shows the fluxuating relative populations over several hundred years with the caution that boundaries for Jeruselum fluxuated over time.

According to this book: Israel Or Palestine? Is the Two-state Solution Already Dead? the population of Palestine, by the middle of the 19th century was 84% Muslim Arab, 10% Christian Arab, 1% Druze and 5% Jewish.

You're source seems to be the only one making this population claim - so either it's wrong, or it refers to only a portion of the Jeruselum sanjak - I don't know, I can't find original sources.

Did you see this in your link that shows the Jews were the majority


Jews as absolute or relative majority[edit]
Year Jews Muslims Christians Total Original Source As quoted in
1882 9,000 7,000 5,000 21,000 Wilson Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1885 15,000 6,000 14,000 35,000 Goldmann Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1893 >50% ? ? ~40,000 Albert Shaw, Writer Shaw, 1894 [38]
1896 28,112 8,560 8,748 45,420 Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656 Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1905 13,300 11,000 8,100 32,400 1905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens) U.O.Schmelz[39]
1922 33,971 13,413 14,669 62,578 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1931 51,200 19,900 19,300 90,053 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1944 97,000 30,600 29,400 157,000 ? Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1967 195,700 54,963 12,646 263,307 Harrel, 1974




Shows that the Jews were the absolute majority apart from the period 1948-1967 when they were forcibly evicted and their property destroyed. ( timeline at the bottom of the wiki entry )

No, I think YOU missed something. They were a majority (in Jeruselem) from 1844-46, when Zionist immigration began to surge (there is no data on non-jewish populations for 1849-50); they were again a majority in 1853, 1862-66, and then again in 1869, and then from 1882 on. From 1130 to 1844, over 700 years - they were a minority in what census data is available.

Try again as the above shows that the Jews according to Ottoman official census data were the Majority in the sanjak oc Jerusalem from 1882 until they were expelled by the Palestinians in 1949. Yiu just cant stand seeing the evidence from an Islamic source proving you wrong can you

Phoenal - you are moving the goal posts all over the place.

What you are NOW saying is exactly what I just said in the post above - the Jews weren't a majority until Zionist immigration from Europe began to increase their numbers.

That is not what you originally claimed now is it? Your prior claims and goalposts in this thread:

Did they ever become Palestinians, or did they just take on the name for clarity. The facts remain that from the time of the Roman conquest right up until 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews. The muslims were Syrians and the Christians were Christians by their own words.

That is a completely false claim, according to the figures here: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not according to History that says in 1099 the arab muslims were run off the land, and only started to return in the mid 1800's. Then in 1890 they invaded in vast numbers on the promise of cultivated land and easy money

Also false, according to the available demographics.

NO they are recent arrivals from wholly Islamic nations in the vicinity of Palestine.

Completely false according to the available demographics.

 

[Phoenall]

Wrong it was the sanjak of Jerusalem that took in part or what is now Jordan, the upper part of what is Israel extending down to gaza. Just leaving the Negev as not counted in any census. It is an informed historical report drawn up by the Ottomans and the LoN that every member of team Palestine wants to debunk and cant without re-writing history.

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim or Jewish "relative majority"

Between 1838 and 1876, conflicting estimates exist regarding whether Muslims or Jews constituted a "relative majority" (or plurality) in the city.


Writing in 1841, the biblical scholar Edward Robinson noted the conflicting demographic estimates regarding Jerusalem during the period, stating in reference to an 1839 estimate by Moses Montefiore: "As to the Jews, the enumeration in question was made out by themselves, in the expectation of receiving a certain amount of alms for every name returned. It is therefore obvious that they here had as strong a motive to exaggerate their number, as they often have in other circumstances to underrate it."[17] In 1843, Reverend F.C. Ewald, a Christian traveler visiting Jerusalem, reported an influx of 150 Jews from Algiers. He wrote that there were now a large number of Jews from the coast of Africa who were forming a separate congregation.[18]


Between 1856 and 1880, Jewish immigration to Palestine more than doubled, with the majority settling in Jerusalem.[19] The majority of these immigrants were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe, who subsisted on Halukka.[19]


In 1881–82, a group of Jews arrived from Yemen as a result of messianic fervor.[20][21] After living in the Old City for several years, they moved to the hills facing the City of David, where they lived in caves.[22] In 1884, the community, numbering 200, moved to new stone houses built for them by a Jewish charity.[23]​

This same Wikipedia source shows the fluxuating relative populations over several hundred years with the caution that boundaries for Jeruselum fluxuated over time.

According to this book: Israel Or Palestine? Is the Two-state Solution Already Dead? the population of Palestine, by the middle of the 19th century was 84% Muslim Arab, 10% Christian Arab, 1% Druze and 5% Jewish.

You're source seems to be the only one making this population claim - so either it's wrong, or it refers to only a portion of the Jeruselum sanjak - I don't know, I can't find original sources.

Did you see this in your link that shows the Jews were the majority


Jews as absolute or relative majority[edit]
Year Jews Muslims Christians Total Original Source As quoted in
1882 9,000 7,000 5,000 21,000 Wilson Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1885 15,000 6,000 14,000 35,000 Goldmann Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1893 >50% ? ? ~40,000 Albert Shaw, Writer Shaw, 1894 [38]
1896 28,112 8,560 8,748 45,420 Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656 Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1905 13,300 11,000 8,100 32,400 1905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens) U.O.Schmelz[39]
1922 33,971 13,413 14,669 62,578 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1931 51,200 19,900 19,300 90,053 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1944 97,000 30,600 29,400 157,000 ? Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1967 195,700 54,963 12,646 263,307 Harrel, 1974




Shows that the Jews were the absolute majority apart from the period 1948-1967 when they were forcibly evicted and their property destroyed. ( timeline at the bottom of the wiki entry )

No, I think YOU missed something. They were a majority (in Jeruselem) from 1844-46, when Zionist immigration began to surge (there is no data on non-jewish populations for 1849-50); they were again a majority in 1853, 1862-66, and then again in 1869, and then from 1882 on. From 1130 to 1844, over 700 years - they were a minority in what census data is available.

Try again as the above shows that the Jews according to Ottoman official census data were the Majority in the sanjak oc Jerusalem from 1882 until they were expelled by the Palestinians in 1949. Yiu just cant stand seeing the evidence from an Islamic source proving you wrong can you

Phoenal - you are moving the goal posts all over the place.

What you are NOW saying is exactly what I just said in the post above - the Jews weren't a majority until Zionist immigration from Europe began to increase their numbers.

That is not what you originally claimed now is it? Your prior claims and goalposts in this thread:

Did they ever become Palestinians, or did they just take on the name for clarity. The facts remain that from the time of the Roman conquest right up until 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews. The muslims were Syrians and the Christians were Christians by their own words.

That is a completely false claim, according to the figures here: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not according to History that says in 1099 the arab muslims were run off the land, and only started to return in the mid 1800's. Then in 1890 they invaded in vast numbers on the promise of cultivated land and easy money

Also false, according to the available demographics.

NO they are recent arrivals from wholly Islamic nations in the vicinity of Palestine.

Completely false according to the available demographics.

My claim is the only recorded figures show that from 1882 to 1949 the Jews were in the majority.


The only people referred to as Palestinians were the Jews right throughout History beginning with the Roman conquest.

Read monte's links in regards to this and you will see that it is correct the arab muslims never held sovereignty over any part of Palestine from 1099 to 1988, so how did they suddenly get sovereignty in your eyes before 1988 ?

 

[Coyote]

Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim or Jewish "relative majority"

Between 1838 and 1876, conflicting estimates exist regarding whether Muslims or Jews constituted a "relative majority" (or plurality) in the city.


Writing in 1841, the biblical scholar Edward Robinson noted the conflicting demographic estimates regarding Jerusalem during the period, stating in reference to an 1839 estimate by Moses Montefiore: "As to the Jews, the enumeration in question was made out by themselves, in the expectation of receiving a certain amount of alms for every name returned. It is therefore obvious that they here had as strong a motive to exaggerate their number, as they often have in other circumstances to underrate it."[17] In 1843, Reverend F.C. Ewald, a Christian traveler visiting Jerusalem, reported an influx of 150 Jews from Algiers. He wrote that there were now a large number of Jews from the coast of Africa who were forming a separate congregation.[18]


Between 1856 and 1880, Jewish immigration to Palestine more than doubled, with the majority settling in Jerusalem.[19] The majority of these immigrants were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe, who subsisted on Halukka.[19]


In 1881–82, a group of Jews arrived from Yemen as a result of messianic fervor.[20][21] After living in the Old City for several years, they moved to the hills facing the City of David, where they lived in caves.[22] In 1884, the community, numbering 200, moved to new stone houses built for them by a Jewish charity.[23]​

This same Wikipedia source shows the fluxuating relative populations over several hundred years with the caution that boundaries for Jeruselum fluxuated over time.

According to this book: Israel Or Palestine? Is the Two-state Solution Already Dead? the population of Palestine, by the middle of the 19th century was 84% Muslim Arab, 10% Christian Arab, 1% Druze and 5% Jewish.

You're source seems to be the only one making this population claim - so either it's wrong, or it refers to only a portion of the Jeruselum sanjak - I don't know, I can't find original sources.

Did you see this in your link that shows the Jews were the majority


Jews as absolute or relative majority[edit]
Year Jews Muslims Christians Total Original Source As quoted in
1882 9,000 7,000 5,000 21,000 Wilson Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1885 15,000 6,000 14,000 35,000 Goldmann Kark and Oren-Nordheim, 2001[14]
1893 >50% ? ? ~40,000 Albert Shaw, Writer Shaw, 1894 [38]
1896 28,112 8,560 8,748 45,420 Calendar of Palestine for the year 5656 Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1905 13,300 11,000 8,100 32,400 1905 Ottoman census (only Ottoman citizens) U.O.Schmelz[39]
1922 33,971 13,413 14,669 62,578 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1931 51,200 19,900 19,300 90,053 Census of Palestine (British) Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1944 97,000 30,600 29,400 157,000 ? Harrel and Stendel, 1974
1967 195,700 54,963 12,646 263,307 Harrel, 1974




Shows that the Jews were the absolute majority apart from the period 1948-1967 when they were forcibly evicted and their property destroyed. ( timeline at the bottom of the wiki entry )

No, I think YOU missed something. They were a majority (in Jeruselem) from 1844-46, when Zionist immigration began to surge (there is no data on non-jewish populations for 1849-50); they were again a majority in 1853, 1862-66, and then again in 1869, and then from 1882 on. From 1130 to 1844, over 700 years - they were a minority in what census data is available.

Try again as the above shows that the Jews according to Ottoman official census data were the Majority in the sanjak oc Jerusalem from 1882 until they were expelled by the Palestinians in 1949. Yiu just cant stand seeing the evidence from an Islamic source proving you wrong can you

Phoenal - you are moving the goal posts all over the place.

What you are NOW saying is exactly what I just said in the post above - the Jews weren't a majority until Zionist immigration from Europe began to increase their numbers.

That is not what you originally claimed now is it? Your prior claims and goalposts in this thread:

Did they ever become Palestinians, or did they just take on the name for clarity. The facts remain that from the time of the Roman conquest right up until 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews. The muslims were Syrians and the Christians were Christians by their own words.

That is a completely false claim, according to the figures here: Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not according to History that says in 1099 the arab muslims were run off the land, and only started to return in the mid 1800's. Then in 1890 they invaded in vast numbers on the promise of cultivated land and easy money

Also false, according to the available demographics.

NO they are recent arrivals from wholly Islamic nations in the vicinity of Palestine.

Completely false according to the available demographics.

My claim is the only recorded figures show that from 1882 to 1949 the Jews were in the majority.

NOW that is your claim. That is not what you were saying earlier.

The only people referred to as Palestinians were the Jews right throughout History beginning with the Roman conquest.

Throughout history? I don't think so.

Read monte's links in regards to this and you will see that it is correct the arab muslims never held sovereignty over any part of Palestine from 1099 to 1988, so how did they suddenly get sovereignty in your eyes before 1988 ?

Uh oh...you are moving the goalposts again. Now it's "sovereignty" - not population.

 

[Coyote]

Like everyone knows that the European Jews have a close genetic match to the Jews who never left the land than they have to any Europeans. Or like the fact that most of the palestinians come from Egypt and Syria, and not from the land known as Palestine.

There was nobody living in Palestine until when?

The Romans named it Palestine of course, and they were the Jews who lived there. No arab muslims were in Palestine until 800 years after the Romans called it Palestine, and then they were kicked out and had no sovereignty over Palestine ever again.

That did not answer the question.

Yes it did, just not the answer you wanted to see

Nice deflection.