Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In 2002, the State of Israel withdrew fas signatories of the Rome Statures and the International Criminal Court (ICC). So "NO"

Has Israel filed a complaint with the ICC?

(COMMENT)

The dedicated political and human rights position held by the UN had, by the turn of the century, shown itself to be counterproductive to the continued security and protection of the Israel. No longer servicing a purpose, Israel

The UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) took the position that the PLO no longer needed to conform to the agreements of the Oslo Accords; specifically the Area "C" → full civil and security control → afforded the Israelis. The UNHRC needed to abrogate the Oslo Accords before it could justify the charges that Israel violated of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. When the UN chose the one-sided approach and the selective enforcement of the International Agreements, the Rome Statutes were of no further value to the development of a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

The ICC has interpreted Article 49 → "Deportation or forcible transfer of population" means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law. Israel did not take "forcible" action.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is a foreign country; as well.

Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.

(COMMENT)

So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is a foreign country; as well.

Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.

(COMMENT)

So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R

The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is a foreign country; as well.

Egypt is a foreign country.They are not at war with Egypt.

(COMMENT)

So, are you saying that the State of Palestine is officially at "war" with Israel?

Most Respectfully,
R

The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.

There is no cage around Gaza. Another rather frantic appeal to a nonsensical claim.

 

[Hollie]

The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members




You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.

Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore

Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
days? This may help you to understand what the government is looking
at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.

Hard to disappear in a crowd. Pick on a small part of the
crowd click a couple of times — wait — click a few more times and
see how clear each individual face will become each time. Or use
the wheel on your mouse.

This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
(2100 Mega Pixels.) These cameras are not sold to the public and
are being installed in strategic locations.

The camera can identify a face among a multitude of people.

Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
double-click a couple times.

Scary sharp!! Not so easy to hide in a crowd anymore

Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1

 

[P F Tinmore]

The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members




You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.

Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore

Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
days? This may help you to understand what the government is looking
at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.

Hard to disappear in a crowd. Pick on a small part of the
crowd click a couple of times — wait — click a few more times and
see how clear each individual face will become each time. Or use
the wheel on your mouse.

This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
(2100 Mega Pixels.) These cameras are not sold to the public and
are being installed in strategic locations.

The camera can identify a face among a multitude of people.

Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
double-click a couple times.

Scary sharp!! Not so easy to hide in a crowd anymore

Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1

Which is funny because the propaganda photos out of Israel are all fuzzy.

 

[Hollie]

The islamic terrorists at the border gee-had have no idea as to the sophistication of kuffar technology.

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members

Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members




You can run, Muhammad, but you can't hide.

Think you can hide in a large crowd? Not anymore

Ever wonder how they found the Boston bombers in just a few
days? This may help you to understand what the government is looking
at. This photo was taken in Canada and shows about 700,000 people.

Hard to disappear in a crowd. Pick on a small part of the
crowd click a couple of times — wait — click a few more times and
see how clear each individual face will become each time. Or use
the wheel on your mouse.

This picture was taken with a 70,000 x 30,000 pixel camera
(2100 Mega Pixels.) These cameras are not sold to the public and
are being installed in strategic locations.

The camera can identify a face among a multitude of people.

Place your computer’s cursor in the mass of people and
double-click a couple times.

Scary sharp!! Not so easy to hide in a crowd anymore

Gigapixel.com - 2011 Stanley Cup - Game 7 Canucks Fan Zone v1

Which is funny because the propaganda photos out of Israel are all fuzzy.

That's funny because Hamas had to admit to their flunkies being picked off by IDF snipers. The peaceful Islamic terrorist border gee-had has resulted in the IDF carefully and skillfully culling the Islamist terrorist herd.

Allah has a sense of humor, no?

 

[RoccoR]

•RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, in my opinion, → that would not be correct.

The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.

(REFERENCE)

• AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA •​

• TREATY OF PEACE1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL •​

(COMMENT)

But that is one of the three possible political conditions that may be considered.

• The Gaza Strip is incorporated by treaty into Israel. That would be consistent with Article II - Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) (without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip). That would mean that, geo-politically, the land would be the same on both sides of the demarcation line.

• That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line.

○ One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the Sovereign State of Israel.

○ One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the quasi-State of Palestine.

○ Geo-politically fragmented - Sovereign Israel - Sovereign Gaza Strip - Area "A"​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

•RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, in my opinion, → that would not be correct.

The cage around Gaza is not a border. It is the same place on both sides.

(REFERENCE)

• AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA •​

• TREATY OF PEACE1 BETWEEN THE ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYPT AND THE STATE OF ISRAEL •​

(COMMENT)

But that is one of the three possible political conditions that may be considered.

• The Gaza Strip is incorporated by treaty into Israel. That would be consistent with Article II - Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) (without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip). That would mean that, geo-politically, the land would be the same on both sides of the demarcation line.

• That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line.

○ One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the Sovereign State of Israel.

○ One side (of the demarcation line) being → geo-politically → the quasi-State of Palestine.

○ Geo-politically fragmented - Sovereign Israel - Sovereign Gaza Strip - Area "A"​

Most Respectfully,
R

That the demarcation as marked by the patrolled barrier is distinctly geo-politically different on both sides of the demarcation line

That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.

 

[Shusha]

That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.

The first half is correct, but the second is lacking. It is NOT the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.

The territory on the Israeli side is certainly sovereign Israel. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, and even though Israel has not declared her formal renunciation of that territory, it can be argued that this was both her intent and the result of her actions. Therefore, the territory on the Gaza side of the armistice line can not be considered Israeli territory.

That leaves us with two choices: Gaza is under the sovereignty of another State. Or it is terra nullius.

Me, I'd argue for terra nullius. I don't think the State of Palestine has fulfilled the requirements for sovereignty and can't be (yet) considered a sovereign State. But I suppose one could make an argument for a State of Palestine occupied by Hamas. That's a pretty tough sell though.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, you are so wrong. If you check the Posting again, you will carefully notice that I made absolutely no reference to an "Armistice Line or an Armistice Agreement. There is a very good reason for that and that reason explains why your logic is neither sound nor valid.
(See my Insert: A/RES/25/2625)

​

That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have no connection with any Armistice Arrangement, as they were never a party to the conflict. Relative to the battlespace (Gaza Strip and West Bank) of the 1949 War for Independence, the State of Israel entered into TWO separate Armistice Agreements:

◈ S/1264/Corr.1 • 23 February 1949 • EGYPTIAN - ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covereing the Gaza Strip •

◈ S/1302/Rev.1 • 3 April 1949 • HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covering the West Bank and Jerusalem​

All Armistice Lines and International Boundaries are separate and distinct subordinate forms in the family of Demarcation Lines. But not all Demarcation Lines are International Boundaries or Armistice Lines.

Both Armistice Lines were to remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved. The Armistice Lines do not exist anymore, having been replaced by:

◈ Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 •

◈ Thel Peace Treaty between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel, October 26, 1994 •​

There is no international documentation (per se) for the International Recognition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip boundaries, except as may be construed by the Oslo Accords. Some outside observers call this the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). But even that is questionable.

(EPILOG)

Not even a Blind Man misconstrue the physical boundaries as marked-out by the Israelis. The State of Israel takes the territorial integrity of their sovereignty very seriously.

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians agree among themselves what the borders of their country are, if indeed, there is a country. But as for sovereignty, only Area "A" meets the definition of Arab Palestinian sovereign territory.

In Area A, the main Arab urban areas, Israel has fully withdrawn. The PA has complete control over all civilian administration, and its paramilitary police force is in charge of security.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

I feel a "how does that refute my post" coming on.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, you are so wrong. If you check the Posting again, you will carefully notice that I made absolutely no reference to an "Armistice Line or an Armistice Agreement. There is a very good reason for that and that reason explains why your logic is neither sound nor valid.
(See my Insert: A/RES/25/2625)

View attachment 248891
​

That is an armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial boundary. It is the same place on both sides as it was in 1949.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have no connection with any Armistice Arrangement, as they were never a party to the conflict. Relative to the battlespace (Gaza Strip and West Bank) of the 1949 War for Independence, the State of Israel entered into TWO separate Armistice Agreements:

◈ S/1264/Corr.1 • 23 February 1949 • EGYPTIAN - ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covereing the Gaza Strip •

◈ S/1302/Rev.1 • 3 April 1949 • HASHEMITE JORDAN KINGDOM - ISRAEL: GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT • Covering the West Bank and Jerusalem​

All Armistice Lines and International Boundaries are separate and distinct subordinate forms in the family of Demarcation Lines. But not all Demarcation Lines are International Boundaries or Armistice Lines.

Both Armistice Lines were to remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties was achieved. The Armistice Lines do not exist anymore, having been replaced by:

◈ Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 •

◈ Thel Peace Treaty between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel, October 26, 1994 •​

There is no international documentation (per se) for the International Recognition of the West Bank and Gaza Strip boundaries, except as may be construed by the Oslo Accords. Some outside observers call this the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt). But even that is questionable.

(EPILOG)

Not even a Blind Man misconstrue the physical boundaries as marked-out by the Israelis. The State of Israel takes the territorial integrity of their sovereignty very seriously.

I do not believe that the Arab Palestinians agree among themselves what the borders of their country are, if indeed, there is a country. But as for sovereignty, only Area "A" meets the definition of Arab Palestinian sovereign territory.

In Area A, the main Arab urban areas, Israel has fully withdrawn. The PA has complete control over all civilian administration, and its paramilitary police force is in charge of security.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.

The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.

 

[Shusha]

Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.

On the contrary, I believe Rocco is working from the "assumption" (actual international law), that a State which holds sovereign territory can, in fact, unilaterally abandon that territory.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What do you think the establishment (through self-determination) of territorial integrity and sovereignty means?

By the right of self-determination the Jewish People, under the sanction of the United Nations, established the Stae of Israel as the Jewish National Home.

First, the Jewish People were threatened by the Arab Palestinians by violence. Then the Arab Palestinians took a two-pronged approach. One prong was the incitement of the Arab League to militarily intervene. The second prong was the political movement that has an armed component (Jihadist).

Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.

The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.

(COMMENT)

The reality is, that the boundaries are there, in place and defended. That is the reality, and no politically motivated manipulation of the law is going to change that simple fact.

The short version to the story is this:

◈ The Allied Powers wanted to allow the Jewish People an oppotunity to develop.

◈ The Arab Palestinians and antisemetic Arab League did not want that.

◈ The Allied Powers made a Plan and put it into effect.

◈ The Jewish People Accepted the Plan.

◈ The Arab Palestinians rejected the Plan.

◈ The Jewish People moved forward politically, economically, commercially, and in the many windows they excelled.

◈ The Arab Palestinians did not establish a foothold or platform supporting any measure of success.

◈ The Arab Palestinians choose to adopt armed stuggle and Islamic Fanatisism.

◈ In the seven decades since, Israel which was opposed and shunned by all its Arab Neighbors in the Middle East and North Africa → Israel excelled beyond every single Arab League member nation in the ranges measured by the Human Develoment scales. In that same period, through three significant conflicts supported by the Arab League members, not one Arab state was able to immulate any of the successes Israel has shown.​

This is a strange set of observations. Logic would suggest that it is more profitable to follow Israel's lead. But instead, the Arab Community is actively combative, most of whom are not very protective. The Muslim world is ≈ 110+ time larger than the of the Jews. However, the Muslim World has only managed to produce 10 Nobel Laureates while Israel has produced ≈ 190+.

One can only wonder why the Muslim antisemitic people, especially the Arab Palestinian, might take the hostile approach towards Israel → as opposed to promoting a collaborative effort. The stock answer I get is that the Israelis hold the Arab Palestinians down.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What do you think the establishment (through self-determination) of territorial integrity and sovereignty means?

By the right of self-determination the Jewish People, under the sanction of the United Nations, established the Stae of Israel as the Jewish National Home.

First, the Jewish People were threatened by the Arab Palestinians by violence. Then the Arab Palestinians took a two-pronged approach. One prong was the incitement of the Arab League to militarily intervene. The second prong was the political movement that has an armed component (Jihadist).

Rocco, you work on the assumption that Israel can unilaterally claim land and set borders by military force. Of the tons of documents you have posted, none have claimed this to be legitimate.

The armistice lines run around and through Palestine without making any claim to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not change Palestine's international borders.

(COMMENT)

The reality is, that the boundaries are there, in place and defended. That is the reality, and no politically motivated manipulation of the law is going to change that simple fact.

The short version to the story is this:

◈ The Allied Powers wanted to allow the Jewish People an oppotunity to develop.

◈ The Arab Palestinians and antisemetic Arab League did not want that.

◈ The Allied Powers made a Plan and put it into effect.

◈ The Jewish People Accepted the Plan.

◈ The Arab Palestinians rejected the Plan.

◈ The Jewish People moved forward politically, economically, commercially, and in the many windows they excelled.

◈ The Arab Palestinians did not establish a foothold or platform supporting any measure of success.

◈ The Arab Palestinians choose to adopt armed stuggle and Islamic Fanatisism.

◈ In the seven decades since, Israel which was opposed and shunned by all its Arab Neighbors in the Middle East and North Africa → Israel excelled beyond every single Arab League member nation in the ranges measured by the Human Develoment scales. In that same period, through three significant conflicts supported by the Arab League members, not one Arab state was able to immulate any of the successes Israel has shown.​

This is a strange set of observations. Logic would suggest that it is more profitable to follow Israel's lead. But instead, the Arab Community is actively combative, most of whom are not very protective. The Muslim world is ≈ 110+ time larger than the of the Jews. However, the Muslim World has only managed to produce 10 Nobel Laureates while Israel has produced ≈ 190+.

One can only wonder why the Muslim antisemitic people, especially the Arab Palestinian, might take the hostile approach towards Israel → as opposed to promoting a collaborative effort. The stock answer I get is that the Israelis hold the Arab Palestinians down.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are ducking my post.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I'm not.

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.

The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.

With the exception of the few Agreements [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)] of the No "negotiated document" (with any state) can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority (not for the last thousand years).

I honestly try not to duck your posts. But I often have apprehension as to your questions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I'm not.

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.

The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.

With the exception of the few Agreements [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)] of the No "negotiated document" (with any state) can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority (not for the last thousand years).

I honestly try not to duck your posts. But I often have apprehension as to your questions.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I'm not.

You are ducking my post.

(COMMENT)

No matter what you think the Armistice Lines do, they are no more, having been replaced by negotiated Treaty Borders.

The Armistice Lines never applied to the Arab Palestinians, as the Arab Palestinians were never a party to the Armistice.

With the exception of the few Agreements [AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (1994) and the Oslo Accords (1993 & 1995)] of the No "negotiated document" (with any state) can you raise, that outlines any Arab Palestinian Territory where the Arab Palestinian is the Sovereign Authority (not for the last thousand years).

I honestly try not to duck your posts. But I often have apprehension as to your questions.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have never entered into a treaty ceding a defined territory or setting any international borders.

They were never in any position to do that.

 

[Hollie]

I feel a "how does that refute my post" coming on.

He saw your comment and used another of his usual cut and paste slogans:

You are ducking my post