People Need to Forgive Bush

[JustAnotherNut]

Personally I thought Bush put us in Iraq with or without UN or intell reports. To me, he seemed as if he wanted to prove himself a stronger man/President than dear old dad because Bush SR didn't follow thru on his ME adventure. The UN is about as corrupt as they come and Hussein was a madman. Why do you think he kept stalling all those inspections? Trying to divert attention elsewhere, drag his feet, etc was to stall for time to hide the weapons he didn't want found. I don't think anyone knew exactly WHERE the weapons were at any one time, except Hussein

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Mindful 14327498

Now I recall, the UN guys were telling me about planes buried in the desert.

But you don't recall Bush saying there was no doubt that WMD were being hidden from the inspectors inside Iraq. How did
Bush conclude there was no doubt if in fact as you and Hoss are saying, that all the WMD were moved to Syria.

So you both believe that Bush knew WMD were there but he had no clue that they were being moved right under his intelligence sources' noses.

Bush is a liar under your 'buried in Syria' scenario. He can't say he knows they are there if he does not know where and what they are.

Nothing new that Bush is a liar but it's great to watch two Bush admirers make an argument that proves it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

JustAnotherNut 14328178

Personally I thought Bush put us in Iraq with or without UN or intell reports

Then Bush is a liar and Hossfly likes you telling it like it is. Bush told the world that he had intelligence that left no doubt that Iraq was hiding the most lethal weapons ever devised from UN inspectors. How could he say that if he had no idea where all those most lethal weapons were located?

Also Bush violated the AUMF if he was not 'enforcing all UNSC resolutions regarding Iraq' when he used military force against Iraq.

 

[Noitartst]

Noitartst 14312530

As is, read my new blog post, here: http://noitartst.com/anger-bush-prev...going-forward/

In it, I call for putting Iraq past us, in response to how Obama has waffled on Syria;

Tell me whatcha think.

Obama has not waffled on Syria. That's opinion - not a fact. We as a nation and Obama as its leader have moved on quite well while hating Bush for what he did to Iraq. The man is lying to this day that he wanted peaceful disarming of Iraq through the UN. Then he forced th UN out to start a war.

Never forgive a liar that keeps lying.

ISIS is clearly in retreat over the past 15 months both in Iraq and Syria. Obama actually managed to use the threat of military force to disarm Syria of its actual physically real WMD. That is what Bush said he would do regarding 'alleged' WMD in Iraq. But Bush used military force as a first resort not as a last resort as he promised all of us in October 2002.

The coalition war against ISIS led by Obama is steadily defeating ISIS while keeping US casualties to less than four.

You want a return to Bush's (as you suggest) non-WAFFLING way and the 4484 dead American soldiers that came with it?

That is not moving that is going back to Bush and Cheney's needless tell.

No forgiveness has been earned by Bush and all those that excuse what he did. So no you are requesting forgiveness that would do more harm than good. Support the current President if you yourself want to do something good. Obama has proven his critics wrong with every ISIS terrorist killed and every square mile of territory cleansed of ISIS terrorist scum.

Well, you claim Bush lied us into Iraq; here is a counter-claim. A lot of people including myself believed that Iraq would be better than it was, but were wrong; the smart thing is regroup, learn from it, and go on; Obama, as I think is becoming increasingly clear, has learned the wrong lessons, and it is dangerous.

Are you a liberal/pacifist? I thought liberals and pacifists believed in forgiveness, and the like, but this is certainly not that. If you're just a pragmatist, though, who doesn't wanna get fooled again, then your stance is more understandable--and relatable.

As to Syria, I didn't think intervening needed bots on the ground; now, I'm a bit less sure, but my reasoning has been to focus on leveraging our greatest strength, which is air power. I discussed it in one of my recent posts, and will do more, if needed. Thing is, we haven't been the smartest about using our strengths, but I don't think we ought give up on that account.

In any case, friend, unforgiveness is simply bad for the soul.

 

[Noitartst]

Noitartst 14312530

Iraq has understandably angered folks, but people need to move on, for trauma simply isn't a good way to make decisions, as Obama's foreign policy advisors have learned. They've found his thinking preoccupied with Iraq, apparently, like Frederic Hof, and Leon Panetta, and being focused on one data point ain't good.

Are you suggesting that Obama is traumatized by Iraq?

Do you believe ISIS is winning and advancing in Iraq and Syria right now?

Are they winning because Obama is traumatized?

Well, what do his former advisers think? Hof thought that Obama's only reference point was Iraq, and so did Panetta.

Read my whole Pinterest board on Syria, to get a better idea: Syrian Struggle
The general gist of which I've compiled since September, is unmistakable, really, and it paints someone resistant to reality, unable to adapt to circumstances--not unlike Bush. Also, notice the diversity of places I've gathered these pieces from. Some of the best pieces are from outside the US, and it seems the harshest critics of these are Arab commentators.

If you push me more, we can even did deeper on this topic, of just what I think Obama's logic truly is. A Pinterest board is a pretty, but its not the most organized.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

JustAnotherNut 14328178

Personally I thought Bush put us in Iraq with or without UN or intell reports

Then Bush is a liar and Hossfly likes you telling it like it is. Bush told the world that he had intelligence that left no doubt that Iraq was hiding the most lethal weapons ever devised from UN inspectors. How could he say that if he had no idea where all those most lethal weapons were located?

Also Bush violated the AUMF if he was not 'enforcing all UNSC resolutions regarding Iraq' when he used military force against Iraq.

Of course Bush is a liar. He would have done anything & everything to get us involved over there just to show some muscle. Since H.W. had stopped short of ousting Hussein & taking Baghdad, Bush Jr was compelled to show him up & take it further. And I think he would have done so even without any WMD's. I don't doubt there were/are plenty, but Hussein wasn't going to let Bush, the UN or anyone else take them away and so hid them. Whatever intelligence knew or thought they knew really mattered little, Bush Jr had a score to settle......to finish what HW didn't.

 

[Noitartst]

Iraq has understandably angered folks, but people need to move on, for trauma simply isn't a good way to make decisions, as Obama's foreign policy advisors have learned. They've found his thinking preoccupied with Iraq, apparently, like Frederic Hof, and Leon Panetta, and being focused on one data point ain't good.

People that want an apology have a point; too many war proponents deny anything went wrong, but the trauma of Iraq has carried over into the situation in Syria, making it a bigger mess, dare I say. Obama's harshest critics are his former employees and given they ain't Republicans, that's saying something.

As is, read my new blog post, here: http://noitartst.com/anger-bush-prev...going-forward/

In it, I call for putting Iraq past us, in response to how Obama has waffled on Syria; I've read a bunch of articles, and too many of them begin by comparing Bush to Obama, which ought, I dare say, to be irrelevant, but isn't.

Apparently.

Given no one I know of has passionately criticized this behavior in tepid defense of Obama, I have countered with some sturm und drang.

Tell me whatcha think.

Interesting blog. IMO Bush doesn't need forgiveness. He did the best he could with what he had and he had my approval.

Exactly; that's the grown-up approach, if you ask me.

As is, Hof thinks Obama's handling Syria will in the future serve as a
way not to handle these crises, and for that, I can be grateful, if that bears out.

 

[Hossfly]

Personally I thought Bush put us in Iraq with or without UN or intell reports. To me, he seemed as if he wanted to prove himself a stronger man/President than dear old dad because Bush SR didn't follow thru on his ME adventure. The UN is about as corrupt as they come and Hussein was a madman. Why do you think he kept stalling all those inspections? Trying to divert attention elsewhere, drag his feet, etc was to stall for time to hide the weapons he didn't want found. I don't think anyone knew exactly WHERE the weapons were at any one time, except Hussein

The Bush haters forget that Congress voted on it..

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Personally I thought Bush put us in Iraq with or without UN or intell reports. To me, he seemed as if he wanted to prove himself a stronger man/President than dear old dad because Bush SR didn't follow thru on his ME adventure. The UN is about as corrupt as they come and Hussein was a madman. Why do you think he kept stalling all those inspections? Trying to divert attention elsewhere, drag his feet, etc was to stall for time to hide the weapons he didn't want found. I don't think anyone knew exactly WHERE the weapons were at any one time, except Hussein

The Bush haters forget that Congress voted on it..

Maybe so and after 911, they would have given approval to anything he asked for. I just didn't think it was thought thru well enough, but more of a knee jerk reaction to 911. HW wasn't too bad of a President, Jr not so much.......but that's just me

 

[NotfooledbyW]

14329085

Well, what do his former advisers think? Hof thought that Obama's only reference point was Iraq, and so did Panetta.

Obama has proven Panetta to be wrong. You are living in a world two years back when lots of excitement was generated when ISIS launched the bloody evil terror campaign in Iraq. So many knees were jerking as they predicted ISIS would take over Iraq and Syria unless Obama sent US troops to kill and be killed on the front lines. Those people were wrong. Obama is right.

Unless you see an ISIS victory coming soon in the future.

Do you have a problem with this?


Abadi announces starting military operations to liberate Fallujah By Abdelhak Mamoun - May 23, 2016

I wish them well.

 

[Mindful]

Mindful 14326995

. No.

That means you must agree with it, since you cannot come up with an answer at all. You really think something as serious as starting a war based on intelligence that was simple guesswork is ok. It doesn't matter that hiding something in the desert is easily done, because Bush and his sources claimed to know where it was - moving, buried or somewhere near Tikrit.

It doesn't mean anything of the sort. I merely answered your question.

You are making assumptions, and trying to make me agree with them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My point was dingleberry that Saddam had WMD's.

Now why they found none when they went in is a good question.

As for the rest, I have no interest in defending his decisions. I'm no partisan shill.

NOt the type Bush was talking about, and that point is in every history book used in high school and college.

 

[JakeStarkey]

hoss, the type of WMDs the which Bush was saying that SH possessed, in fact, he did not possess. That fact is taught in our history classes.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

It doesn't mean anything of the sort. I merely answered your question.

It is a simple question but you can't bring yourself to answer it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bush must never be forgiven.

 

[Noitartst]

14329085

Well, what do his former advisers think? Hof thought that Obama's only reference point was Iraq, and so did Panetta.

Obama has proven Panetta to be wrong. You are living in a world two years back when lots of excitement was generated when ISIS launched the bloody evil terror campaign in Iraq. So many knees were jerking as they predicted ISIS would take over Iraq and Syria unless Obama sent US troops to kill and be killed on the front lines. Those people were wrong. Obama is right.

Unless you see an ISIS victory coming soon in the future.

Do you have a problem with this?


Abadi announces starting military operations to liberate Fallujah By Abdelhak Mamoun - May 23, 2016

I wish them well.

Obama may have averted a takeover by ISIS, but is still a far bigger mess than it was when we left.

Also, you're ignoring what Panetta also said about the Red line, and that it was a mistake not to enforce it; after Putin, I find it hard to believe you can say Panetta's criticism wasn't valid. Obama defenders forget that last summer, Obama said he and Russia were getting closer on Syria, and then Putin goes bombing our allies, there. Obama defenders also say that he learned from Libya, but that's nonsense; he was still ramping up, in August, in Syria, and then got strong-armed by Putin, forcing him to change course.

A careful examination of Obama's track record shows a lack of conviction, and half-measures; he he directly armed the rebels, but not effectively, and recently, he added some 250 boots on the ground, something he claimed he wouldn't do.

 

[Noitartst]

Bush must never be forgiven.

Nice to know that; forgiveness is good for the soul, friend, and it keeps us from living in the past. Hope you're not another pacifist; that would be tragic.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Noitartust 14337838

Nice to know that; forgiveness is good for the soul, friend, and it keeps us from living in the past.

The slaughter that Bush ignited in Iraq is not good for the American soul. If we Americans that know the truth about Bush and his Iraq lies forgive Bush it will set the American soul morally backward We can't forgive the deaths and injuries and destruction in Iraq that Bush unleashed for no justifiable reason. It's a very bad idea that has nothing to do with moving forward.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bush must never be forgiven.

Nice to know that; forgiveness is good for the soul, friend, and it keeps us from living in the past. Hope you're not another pacifist; that would be tragic.

This soul is just fine knowing that Bush is responsible for what happened, and if we know that, we won't make the same mistakes again. You do understand pacificism, apparently,

 

[Noitartst]

Noitartust 14337838

Nice to know that; forgiveness is good for the soul, friend, and it keeps us from living in the past.

The slaughter that Bush ignited in Iraq is not good for the American soul. If we Americans that know the truth about Bush and his Iraq lies forgive Bush it will set the American soul morally backward We can't forgive the deaths and injuries and destruction in Iraq that Bush unleashed for no justifiable reason. It's a very bad idea that has nothing to do with moving forward.

You seem just fine with Obama's tolerating the deaths of hundreds of thousands. For my part, I'm tired of reporters tolerating Obama's halftruths, and sloppiness. the future moves ever forward, and so must we; as is, Obama made the same logic of weapons of mass destruction in 2013, same as Bush did, for the same exact reasons.

As for "no justifiable reason," I beg do differ; Bush thought it could remake the Middle East, Saddam really was a threat, weapons or no, and we were in a constant state of low-level conflict. Those reasons are justifiable, to me; as to weapons of mass destruction, even the French thought he had them. Bush may have been a tone-deaf idiot, and did much damage to his cause , but those were good reasons to me, and an awful lot of others.

Me, I have no time for bitterness with Bush; Syria suffers because of Obama, and un-forgiveness towards Bush--shame on you.

Bush must never be forgiven.

Nice to know that; forgiveness is good for the soul, friend, and it keeps us from living in the past. Hope you're not another pacifist; that would be tragic.

This soul is just fine knowing that Bush is responsible for what happened, and if we know that, we won't make the same mistakes again. You do understand pacificism, apparently,

Ah, but pacifists are making the same mistakes of Neville Chamberlain; doves and their ilk are getting plenty of blood on their wings, rightabout now. Me, as a hawk, I now I share a mite of culpability with Bush over Iraq; you, as a dove, seem to believe that you and Obam share zero culpability over Syria.

You realize your arrogance?