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Very true. And the majority of that type inhabit a category referred to by behaviorists as authoritarian submissive. The extreme expression of this personal orientation is assumption of the sexual sado/masochistic submissive role. They derive sexual pleasure from being tied up, handcuffed, "dominated," humiliated and abused.As usual you've got people taking a short clip of protesters being "assaulted" by the police without showing the confrontations that went on before pepper spray was used. The police were trying to keep protesters from blocking the street, forcing them back and then arresting them if they persisted. Things were getting more and more confrontational and one of the cops pulled his pepper spray and used it to disperse the crowd. Cry me a river....
Watch the longer video to get a better idea of the scene.
Occupy Wall Street: help us reconstruct the 'pepper spray' incident | World news | guardian.co.uk
As usual, some people support the police no matter what.
they were.....they were standing behind a fucking Barricade....your as about as brave as that fucking Cop....has anyone called you a Dick lately?.....
They were part of a crowd that was repeatedly darting out from behind the barricade and trying to block the street. The situation was getting more and more out of hand. The pepper spray got things back under control. Sorry, Harry...I just don't see this as cowardly...it's just somebody doing their job. I suppose the cops could have let things escalate to the point where they had to swing night sticks...would that have made you happier?
I don't see enough here to know what the full context was; I can't tell if the police had full control of these people or not. Maybe the use of pepper spray was justified, maybe not; but that's pretty far down the force continuum (far below swinging a riot baton), and before any of you say anything, yes, I know what pepper spray (and CS gas) feels like. It doesn't feel good, but I've yet to see it do any real damage to anyone. I can't say that for a baton, even when properly used.
Very true. And the majority of that type inhabit a category referred to by behaviorists as authoritarian submissive. The extreme expression of this personal orientation is assumption of the sexual sado/masochistic submissive role. They derive sexual pleasure from being tied up, handcuffed, "dominated," humiliated and abused.As usual you've got people taking a short clip of protesters being "assaulted" by the police without showing the confrontations that went on before pepper spray was used. The police were trying to keep protesters from blocking the street, forcing them back and then arresting them if they persisted. Things were getting more and more confrontational and one of the cops pulled his pepper spray and used it to disperse the crowd. Cry me a river....
Watch the longer video to get a better idea of the scene.
Occupy Wall Street: help us reconstruct the 'pepper spray' incident | World news | guardian.co.uk
As usual, some people support the police no matter what.
What's the big 'shock' here? They were probably told about a dozen times to move over so that barricade could be put in place. They didn't move and so were made to move through non-lethal means. Did these airheads imagine that they would 'occupy' part of the city (as pathetic as the attempt turned out to be) and receive hot chocolate and back rubs from the law enforcement officers there to protect ALL the people and maintain some degree of order? Just think, if that kid had stayed home she would have missed out on her dramatic crying in the streets moment. She'll be living off that story for years.
Those ladies were being DETAINED.
Did you not notice that they were being held in a holding area and surrounded by cops?
I am kind of curious as to the circumstances leading up to this. Obviouisly, the cops were trying to control a crowd. I am not sure what the red barricade was for or why the people were gathered behind it.
I would like to know more before making a judgment. My initial reaction is to not get too excited about this. It looks as though the crowd was not responding to what the police wanted them to do. If what the cops wanted them to do was reasonable, then maybe pepper spraying them when they refused to do it was not so unreasonable.
Sound reasonable?
Boo hoo hoo, protestors breaking the law got maced, maybe next time we should just shoot them.
they were.....they were standing behind a fucking Barricade....your as about as brave as that fucking Cop....has anyone called you a Dick lately?.....
They were part of a crowd that was repeatedly darting out from behind the barricade and trying to block the street. The situation was getting more and more out of hand. The pepper spray got things back under control. Sorry, Harry...I just don't see this as cowardly...it's just somebody doing their job. I suppose the cops could have let things escalate to the point where they had to swing night sticks...would that have made you happier?
Why do wingnuts hate the U.S. Constitution? What part of:They were probably walking by on their way to Church and were grabbed at random, eh?
No obviously not.
What's your point?.
The point is that if you go to 'occupy' part of the city and are not prepared for reality then you get what you deserve. Those empty-headed dopes thought they would play 'let's pretend it's the 60s!' and it would be fun and self-affirming and maybe they would be on TV! Those police officers were there to protect the entire city and had probably been dealing with those idiots all day. That officer won't be charged with anything and he shouldn't. That dopey broad won't be permanently damaged and will boast of this story for the rest of her life.
They were part of a crowd that was repeatedly darting out from behind the barricade and trying to block the street. The situation was getting more and more out of hand. The pepper spray got things back under control. Sorry, Harry...I just don't see this as cowardly...it's just somebody doing their job. I suppose the cops could have let things escalate to the point where they had to swing night sticks...would that have made you happier?
They were not part of any crowd that was doing that.
The officer that pepper sprayed them walked up from some distance away, and had the spray in his hand before he even got there. He then sprayed without any warning at all, and actually violated NYPD guidelines that say pepper spray should only be used to on a suspect who is resisting arrest. That last part means that, even if your absurd version of the events was true, he was wrong because they were not resisting arrest.
If you listen to the video clips you can quite clearly identify that group of women screaming at the police as they try to get past the barriers that have been erected after the crowd had already broken through previous barriers. The fat girl who was yelling that the police were fascists repeatedly tried to break through the next barrier and was in the process of being arrested and the three girls who got pepper sprayed were screaming at the police for that. Bottom line is this...if people remained behind the barriers they were left alone. If they tried to break through the police lines they were arrested. As for where the officer came from? They were moving up and down the line trying to keep it intact. The protesters were trying to break through. The officer obviously thought the situation with those women screaming bloody murder was getting out of hand and he used his pepper spray. Sorry but I don't blame the police for what happened. They were there to do a job. The protesters were there to shut down Wall Street. Does anyone here think that protest wouldn't have continued on and gotten worse if the police backed down? I find you rather naive if you do.
Call using the free phone in Gmail, which shows up as a California phone number.I may call him to get his opinion tomorrow, say at 0900 my time, 0300 his time
they were.....they were standing behind a fucking Barricade....your as about as brave as that fucking Cop....has anyone called you a Dick lately?.....
They were part of a crowd that was repeatedly darting out from behind the barricade and trying to block the street. The situation was getting more and more out of hand. The pepper spray got things back under control. Sorry, Harry...I just don't see this as cowardly...it's just somebody doing their job. I suppose the cops could have let things escalate to the point where they had to swing night sticks...would that have made you happier?
Old....the girls he Squirted did not seem to be doing anything but standing there.....if there were people down the line doing that he should have squirted them.......
I do not believe that Current TV will let go of this, on the U.S. broadcast side, nor The Young Turks, which is the biggest internet broadcast, nor British media, such as The Guardian.What comes of this issue depends entirely on the level and continuity of publicity. So far the only publicity I've seen was on MSNBC's The Last Word, with Lawrence O'Donnell. He devoted a full ten minutes to it with a lot of very explicit video. If it was covered elsewhere it must have been very brief and superficial because I tune across the news channels and I didn't see anything on that issue. But based on what I saw in the video some (not all) of the police were overly aggressive.
What stands out about the situation is police brass up to the level of Deputy Inspector (four promotional ranks up) appeared to initiate the excessively aggressive behavior, which is highly unusual. What it suggests to me is some Wall Streeter annoyed by the protest complained to NYC Mayor Bloomberg, a multi-billionaire and member of the financial aristocracy, who told the Police Commissioner to do something about it and we've seen who the police protect and serve when we protest against Wall Street.
The bottom line is if the Press doesn't keep the issue alive it will quickly die. And because the financial aristocracy includes the corporate CEOs of the broadcast industry I don't expect to see or hear much more about it.
They were not part of any crowd that was doing that.
The officer that pepper sprayed them walked up from some distance away, and had the spray in his hand before he even got there. He then sprayed without any warning at all, and actually violated NYPD guidelines that say pepper spray should only be used to on a suspect who is resisting arrest. That last part means that, even if your absurd version of the events was true, he was wrong because they were not resisting arrest.
If you listen to the video clips you can quite clearly identify that group of women screaming at the police as they try to get past the barriers that have been erected after the crowd had already broken through previous barriers. The fat girl who was yelling that the police were fascists repeatedly tried to break through the next barrier and was in the process of being arrested and the three girls who got pepper sprayed were screaming at the police for that. Bottom line is this...if people remained behind the barriers they were left alone. If they tried to break through the police lines they were arrested. As for where the officer came from? They were moving up and down the line trying to keep it intact. The protesters were trying to break through. The officer obviously thought the situation with those women screaming bloody murder was getting out of hand and he used his pepper spray. Sorry but I don't blame the police for what happened. They were there to do a job. The protesters were there to shut down Wall Street. Does anyone here think that protest wouldn't have continued on and gotten worse if the police backed down? I find you rather naive if you do.
I actually posted a video clip where you can clearly hear the woman asking the police officer who was talking to her where he wanted them to go just before she got sprayed in the face without warning.
If the deputy chief thought the the situation was getting out of had then he should have remembered that department policy does not allow pepper spray unless someone resisting arrest.
Why do wingnuts hate the U.S. Constitution? What part of:No obviously not.
What's your point?.
The point is that if you go to 'occupy' part of the city and are not prepared for reality then you get what you deserve. Those empty-headed dopes thought they would play 'let's pretend it's the 60s!' and it would be fun and self-affirming and maybe they would be on TV! Those police officers were there to protect the entire city and had probably been dealing with those idiots all day. That officer won't be charged with anything and he shouldn't. That dopey broad won't be permanently damaged and will boast of this story for the rest of her life.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
do you not understand?
Those ladies were being DETAINED.
Did you not notice that they were being held in a holding area and surrounded by cops?
I am kind of curious as to the circumstances leading up to this. Obviouisly, the cops were trying to control a crowd. I am not sure what the red barricade was for or why the people were gathered behind it.
I would like to know more before making a judgment. My initial reaction is to not get too excited about this. It looks as though the crowd was not responding to what the police wanted them to do. If what the cops wanted them to do was reasonable, then maybe pepper spraying them when they refused to do it was not so unreasonable.
Sound reasonable?
It sounds reasonable.
This is the official NYPD version of the story.
The Police Departments chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said the police had used the pepper spray appropriately.
Pepper spray was used once, he added, after individuals confronted officers and tried to prevent them from deploying a mesh barrier something that was edited out or otherwise not captured in the video.
Here are a few more videos of what happened.
Simultaneous perspectives on "Occupy Wall Street" kettling and pepper spray / mace incident - YouTube
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jJyUCK0OhE]Occupy Wall Street - Police Aggression - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD5z4x5tH1o]Occupy Wall Street September 24 - YouTube[/ame]
Doesn't seem so reasonable when you get a better view.
If you listen to the video clips you can quite clearly identify that group of women screaming at the police as they try to get past the barriers that have been erected after the crowd had already broken through previous barriers. The fat girl who was yelling that the police were fascists repeatedly tried to break through the next barrier and was in the process of being arrested and the three girls who got pepper sprayed were screaming at the police for that. Bottom line is this...if people remained behind the barriers they were left alone. If they tried to break through the police lines they were arrested. As for where the officer came from? They were moving up and down the line trying to keep it intact. The protesters were trying to break through. The officer obviously thought the situation with those women screaming bloody murder was getting out of hand and he used his pepper spray. Sorry but I don't blame the police for what happened. They were there to do a job. The protesters were there to shut down Wall Street. Does anyone here think that protest wouldn't have continued on and gotten worse if the police backed down? I find you rather naive if you do.
I actually posted a video clip where you can clearly hear the woman asking the police officer who was talking to her where he wanted them to go just before she got sprayed in the face without warning.
If the deputy chief thought the the situation was getting out of had then he should have remembered that department policy does not allow pepper spray unless someone resisting arrest.
I beg to differ, the woman who calmly asks the police where he wanted them to go was an older woman with short blonde hair who was not one of the women who got pepper sprayed. The women that did were standing about six feet to that woman's right.
As for your comment about department policy regarding pepper spray's use? They were in the process of arresting the fat girl in black and the three "screamers" were going ballistic over it. The supervisor obviously thought they were impeding the arrest and used his pepper spray. It's what the police do everyday in every city in this country when they are trying to arrest someone and an angry crowd starts screaming at them. Just look at that video and take note of the "wall" of cell phone cameras that were recording every second of this whole scene. The entire purpose of this demonstration was to attract media attention. It was only a few hundred people in a city of millions. If it had been a peaceful demonstration it wouldn't have garnered more than a brief mention in any media outlet. Those protesters went there with the express intention of getting arrested on camera. To be honest with you after watching the video several times I was more and more impressed by the restraint that the police showed.
I am kind of curious as to the circumstances leading up to this. Obviouisly, the cops were trying to control a crowd. I am not sure what the red barricade was for or why the people were gathered behind it.
I would like to know more before making a judgment. My initial reaction is to not get too excited about this. It looks as though the crowd was not responding to what the police wanted them to do. If what the cops wanted them to do was reasonable, then maybe pepper spraying them when they refused to do it was not so unreasonable.
Sound reasonable?
It sounds reasonable.
This is the official NYPD version of the story.
Here are a few more videos of what happened.The Police Departments chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said the police had used the pepper spray appropriately.
Pepper spray was used once, he added, after individuals confronted officers and tried to prevent them from deploying a mesh barrier something that was edited out or otherwise not captured in the video.
Simultaneous perspectives on "Occupy Wall Street" kettling and pepper spray / mace incident - YouTube
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jJyUCK0OhE"]Occupy Wall Street - Police Aggression - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD5z4x5tH1o"]Occupy Wall Street September 24 - YouTube[/ame]
Doesn't seem so reasonable when you get a better view.
I disagree. I watched the 9 minute video. It is pretty clear what went on. At first, the crowd is relatively orderly and restrained and the police are reacting accordingly, i.e., not doing too much - merely establishing a presence.
But as time passes, the crowd gets more unruly and more aggressive. It is obvious at this point, that several members of the crowd are now intent on provoking some kind of physical incident with the police. Now, the police begin to try and tighten things up a bit. The crowd reacts with predictable actions to resist police attempts to restrict them.
By the time the pepper spray was used, the police had a potentially bad situation on their hands. Now, whether they used the pepper spray against the members of the crowd who should have had it used against them is another matter. I didn't see the "sprayees" really doing anything that deserved being sprayed. But that's not the point, and police cannot be called upon to pick and choose when they have a potential riot on their hands.
You want to belly up to the front line of a confrontation like this, you should be ready to accept the consequences. I'm sorry - I call this one for the cops.
And that is really rare for me. Many of you know what I do for a living and how I feel about police in general.
It sounds reasonable.
This is the official NYPD version of the story.
Here are a few more videos of what happened.
Simultaneous perspectives on "Occupy Wall Street" kettling and pepper spray / mace incident - YouTube
Occupy Wall Street - Police Aggression - YouTube
Occupy Wall Street September 24 - YouTube
Doesn't seem so reasonable when you get a better view.
I disagree. I watched the 9 minute video. It is pretty clear what went on. At first, the crowd is relatively orderly and restrained and the police are reacting accordingly, i.e., not doing too much - merely establishing a presence.
But as time passes, the crowd gets more unruly and more aggressive. It is obvious at this point, that several members of the crowd are now intent on provoking some kind of physical incident with the police. Now, the police begin to try and tighten things up a bit. The crowd reacts with predictable actions to resist police attempts to restrict them.
By the time the pepper spray was used, the police had a potentially bad situation on their hands. Now, whether they used the pepper spray against the members of the crowd who should have had it used against them is another matter. I didn't see the "sprayees" really doing anything that deserved being sprayed. But that's not the point, and police cannot be called upon to pick and choose when they have a potential riot on their hands.
You want to belly up to the front line of a confrontation like this, you should be ready to accept the consequences. I'm sorry - I call this one for the cops.
And that is really rare for me. Many of you know what I do for a living and how I feel about police in general.
Excuse me? Why should anyone have to expect treatment like this just because they choose to exercise their rights? I honestly do not care if 99% of the protestors there were actually attacking the police, there was no reason for anyone to use pepper spray on peaceful protestors. There is no way I will accept that.
I actually posted a video clip where you can clearly hear the woman asking the police officer who was talking to her where he wanted them to go just before she got sprayed in the face without warning.
If the deputy chief thought the the situation was getting out of had then he should have remembered that department policy does not allow pepper spray unless someone resisting arrest.
I beg to differ, the woman who calmly asks the police where he wanted them to go was an older woman with short blonde hair who was not one of the women who got pepper sprayed. The women that did were standing about six feet to that woman's right.
As for your comment about department policy regarding pepper spray's use? They were in the process of arresting the fat girl in black and the three "screamers" were going ballistic over it. The supervisor obviously thought they were impeding the arrest and used his pepper spray. It's what the police do everyday in every city in this country when they are trying to arrest someone and an angry crowd starts screaming at them. Just look at that video and take note of the "wall" of cell phone cameras that were recording every second of this whole scene. The entire purpose of this demonstration was to attract media attention. It was only a few hundred people in a city of millions. If it had been a peaceful demonstration it wouldn't have garnered more than a brief mention in any media outlet. Those protesters went there with the express intention of getting arrested on camera. To be honest with you after watching the video several times I was more and more impressed by the restraint that the police showed.
I see now.
The cop is so stupid that he thought someone who was not even close to the arrest, was separated from it by a wall of police holding a mesh barrier. No wonder he is brass, he is so stupid they had to promote him off the streets.
I suggest you actually watch this entire video. It won't change your mind, but you will know people are aware of your idiocy.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgr3DiqWYCI"]MSNBC on NYPD Police Brutality during Occupy Wall Street Lawrence O'donnell with "The Last Word" - YouTube[/ame]
I disagree. I watched the 9 minute video. It is pretty clear what went on. At first, the crowd is relatively orderly and restrained and the police are reacting accordingly, i.e., not doing too much - merely establishing a presence.
But as time passes, the crowd gets more unruly and more aggressive. It is obvious at this point, that several members of the crowd are now intent on provoking some kind of physical incident with the police. Now, the police begin to try and tighten things up a bit. The crowd reacts with predictable actions to resist police attempts to restrict them.
By the time the pepper spray was used, the police had a potentially bad situation on their hands. Now, whether they used the pepper spray against the members of the crowd who should have had it used against them is another matter. I didn't see the "sprayees" really doing anything that deserved being sprayed. But that's not the point, and police cannot be called upon to pick and choose when they have a potential riot on their hands.
You want to belly up to the front line of a confrontation like this, you should be ready to accept the consequences. I'm sorry - I call this one for the cops.
And that is really rare for me. Many of you know what I do for a living and how I feel about police in general.
Excuse me? Why should anyone have to expect treatment like this just because they choose to exercise their rights? I honestly do not care if 99% of the protestors there were actually attacking the police, there was no reason for anyone to use pepper spray on peaceful protestors. There is no way I will accept that.
If you push yourself to the front of the line at a concert featuring that brain surgeon "Gallagher," you can expect to get hit with debris from smashed watermelons.
If you push yourself to the front of the line at an imbecile's "protest" where your fellow protestors are trying to earn their bones as anarchical assholes, you can expect the cops to use some form of force to quell a possible riot.
No disrespect to you QW, but I gotta give props to George C for his call.
I normally won't draw conclusions from isolated tape segments alone. But Lawrence O'Donnell's narration seemed factually convincing, especially around the fellow with the big video camera whose head was rammed into the grille of a parked car. The guy was holding his camera with both hands in a protective manner so what happened to him seemed entirely gratuitous. As did squirting a girl who was behind a barricade in the face with pepper spray.Gee, Mike...you watched the edited clips on MSNBC and thought you were getting an unbiased account of what actually happened? Are you REALLY that naive?
