Pete Rose

[Dadoalex]

Bonds and Clemens chemically enhanced their performance.

1. Neither were ever suspended or fined for that.
2. No one has ever demonstrated that hitting a baseball or throwing a changeup is impacted by any PE drugs. If they were, the MLB home run champion would be Randy Poffo.
3. You really think those were the only ones?
And, finally...
Gaylord Perry, Don Drysdale, Whitey Ford, George Brett...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1. Neither were ever suspended or fined for that.
2. No one has ever demonstrated that hitting a baseball or throwing a changeup is impacted by any PE drugs. If they were, the MLB home run champion would be Randy Poffo.
3. You really think those were the only ones?
And, finally...
Gaylord Perry, Don Drysdale, Whitey Ford, George Brett...

Whitey Ford used steroids?

 

[Dadoalex]

Whitey Ford used steroids?

Caught cheating in the middle of an actual game.

 

[candycorn]

I think he should be inducted but think this is one of those situations where they will do Posthumously. Would be great though if he could see the day it happens.

It would not only be great...it would be the right thing to do. In a few years, Jose Altuve will be up for consideration for the HOF. Baseball Reference has him as almost a shoo-in Hall of Famer if I am looking at their metrics correctly:

Should they make him wait 60 years to be in the HOF because he was part of the sign stealing scandal?

 

[Rocko]

I was listening to the Yankees broadcast the other day and they reported that it was Pete Rose's 81st birthday. The broadcasters, like I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. He bet on baseball and (according to one of the same announcers) gambling is now one of the biggest sponsors of MLB... It seems sort of ridiculous that he is still being punished for this. Whatever damage he's done, he's paid enough already.

Pete Rose probably bet against his own team. If he did fuck the guy. If he only bet on his team (I’m not buying that story) then maybe he should get a spot. But I believe gambling against your team is a more egregious thing to do than use steroids. I think a lot the steroid guys that have been left out of the hall have more of a claim to be in than Rose.

 

[Rocko]

I heard that Rose never placed bets on his own team?
If that's true, then I don't see the problem with him placing bets? ...

No. His claim was he only bet on his team to win, but he’s probably lying, because MLB never confirmed that to be true

 

[DGS49]

Jesus H. Christ, the people around here cannot even remember RECENT history.

It is not relevant whether Rose bet on or against his own team, although the worst imaginable thing would have been to bet against his team. He bet on other games, based on his inside knowledge of the players, injuries, tendencies and whatnot. Parenthetically, it does not appear that he was particularly successful at it, he just had a bit of a gambling addiction.

At the time (and probably to this day), all players and other staff were extensively briefed by the Commissioners office during Spring Training that NO SPORTS BETTING would be acceptable, and if caught betting on sports you would get, in effect, the baseball death penalty.

Pete Rose and Bart Giamatti (then-commissioner of baseball) AGREED, IN WRITING, that Rose would be permanently banned from anything associated with MLB. Specifically,

"Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List."

Baseball Almanac - Pete Rose / A. Bartlett Giamatti Agreement

Baseball Almanac presents the complete text and detailed information about the Pete Rose / A. Bartlett Giamatti Agreement on banishment.

www.baseball-almanac.com

It doesn't matter what would have happened if he had done the same thing today. It doesn't matter how good he was, or where his stats line up. He committed an unforgivable sin, and was punished according to the rules in effect at the time, and he agreed with the punishment at the time.

Case closed.

 

[candycorn]

Pete Rose probably bet against his own team. If he did fuck the guy. If he only bet on his team (I’m not buying that story) then maybe he should get a spot. But I believe gambling against your team is a more egregious thing to do than use steroids. I think a lot the steroid guys that have been left out of the hall have more of a claim to be in than Rose.

You make a very strong case.

However, I believe 30 years or whatever it has been is sufficient punishment.

Again, I think we need to codify the voting classes for the Hall of Fame; do so in a way that both acknowledges your contribution to the sport while at the same time acknowledges either your distinctive contributions or injury to the public. Its like a graduation ceremony. There is the cum laude graduates and then there are regular graduates. And then there are the guys and gals who finished up in Summer School who didn't get to march across the stage and get the diploma.

Clemente....cum laude
Greg Maddux....graduate
Pete Rose...just give him a plaque

 

[Rocko]

You make a very strong case.

However, I believe 30 years or whatever it has been is sufficient punishment.

Again, I think we need to codify the voting classes for the Hall of Fame; do so in a way that both acknowledges your contribution to the sport while at the same time acknowledges either your distinctive contributions or injury to the public. Its like a graduation ceremony. There is the cum laude graduates and then there are regular graduates. And then there are the guys and gals who finished up in Summer School who didn't get to march across the stage and get the diploma.

Clemente....cum laude
Greg Maddux....graduate
Pete Rose...just give him a plaque

You’re either a hall of fame player or you’re not, giving him a plaque in the hall and not recognize him as a hall of fammer would serve no purpose in my opinion. If he’s 81 years old he shouldn’t give a shit anyway. What he did on the field spoke for itself, I don’t know why he needs the validation. I don’t see Bonds or Clemons whining about how they didn’t make it.

 

[candycorn]

What he did on the field spoke for itself, I don’t know why he needs the validation.

I totally agree with you on that. That being said, the sport has all-star games, Halls of Fame, MVP awards,etc... It is the culture of the sport to have such acclaim.

You’re either a hall of fame player or you’re not, giving him a plaque in the hall and not recognize him as a hall of fammer would serve no purpose in my opinion.

Well, in other aspects of our culture, graduating is different than graduating with honors. A dishonorable discharge is different than other discharges from the military. Certainly the HOF can make such distinctions between honoring what was done on the field and not honoring the man himself.

If he’s 81 years old he shouldn’t give a shit anyway.

I'm not sure he does.

I don’t see Bonds or Clemons whining about how they didn’t make it.

I don't see Pete Rose whining either although I really don't pay much attention to him. They brought it up on the broadcast so I thought I'd add my two cents in.

Good discussion.