Physician assisted suicide

[koshergrl]

Right up Noomi's alley.

 

[koshergrl]

"A review of the Nazi experience with "euthanasia" demonstrates that our medical profession can fall victim to pervasive moral corruption when doctors place the needs of the state above the needs of individual patients. It is easy to read this history with a sense of moral superiority, but one wonders how our government and medical profession would respond to the burden of caring for the non-productive in a time of economic calamity and struggle for our national survival."

The Cost-Effectiveness of Killing: An Overview of Nazi "Euthanasia"

 

[koshergrl]

""Whatever proportions these crimes finally assumed, it became evident to all who investigated them, that they started from small beginnings. The beginnings at first were merely a subtle shift in emphasis in the basic attitudes of physicians.

"It started with the acceptance of the attitude, basic to the euthanasia movement, that there is such a thing as a life not worthy to be lived. This attitude in its early stages concerned itself merely with the severely and chronically sick.

"Gradually the sphere of those to be included in this category was enlarged to encompass the socially unproductive, the ideologically unwanted, the racially unwanted, and finally all non-Germans."

Euthanasia in Nazi Germany - The T4 Programme | The Life Resources Charitable Trust

 

[koshergrl]

"Propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, marshalled the resources of the state-controlled media to persuade Germans that euthanasia was a humane social policy, the foundation for building the Master Race. Graphic pictures portrayed mentally ill and disabled "subhumans" in a series of powerful and popular films, to reinforce the message.

In the popular film "I Accuse", an attractive woman suffering from multiple sclerosis was gently killed by her loving husband.

German school children studied maths problems and calculated how many services, how much bread, jam, and other necessities of life could be saved by killing people - the chronically sick and crippled - who were a "drain on society."

Euthanasia in Nazi Germany - The T4 Programme | The Life Resources Charitable Trust

 

[Aristotle]

LOL Koshergrl was spamming but hit it on the mark.

 

[Katzndogz]

Convincing people to accept suicide is one of the provisions in obamacare. If people do not ask for doctor's help in ending their lives, they must be counseled into doing so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Noomi]

Right up Noomi's alley.

Why must you always think the worst of someone? And please don't invoke Godwins Law. It means you have lost the argument.

 

[Aristotle]

If we are to end the life I think the following questions should be raised:

1) If there is no hope for the patient for recovery should euthanasia be acceptable on this reason alone?

2) If the patient requests to die yet is not in pain, how do we determine that the request of death is not symptomatic of their condition (e.g delirium or depression).

3) If we do allow euthanasia would this lead to a gateway of other bioethical issues such as people suffering from severe mental disorders?

4) If Euthanasia is allowed are loved ones able to see the doctor to perform? If they are allowed then what about the psychological trauma that may occur by watching the doctor perform the life ending procedure? After all, the last image would be the doctor ending their loved one's life versus the natural cause.

1) No. I wouldn't agree with Euthanasia in any circumstance. This thread isn't about someone else making the decision for a patient to die, but whether the patient themselves have the right to seek that help.

Now if the patient has a terminal, incurable, disease (particularly if it is degenerative in some fashion) and wants to seek a lethal dose of medication that they will administer themselves (thus the ASSISTED part of the equation) then yes.

2) If a patient doesn't have a disease that inflicts pain, is terminal, and/or degenerative, than no, a physician shouldn't assist them in their suicide attempt. If they don't wish to live for solely personal reasons then that is their business but they shouldn't involve other people in it.

3) Again no. As I said, I disagree with Euthanasia. Family, doctors, social workers etc. shouldn't be making that call. If we leave it in the hands of the patients to decide (within boundaries) then I don't think the "slippery slope" will be a problem.

4) As for having family present, this, like the choice to take the lethal dose of medication, should be left up to the patient. They could choose to have them there when they give themselves the dosage, or to do it prior and then let family come in to say their final goodbyes. There would be no end to the ways this could be handled and wouldn't, really, be any different then families already standing vigil over someone dear on their final death watch.

These answers, of course, are simply my own 0.02$ worth and YMMV.

So you are in favor of physician assisted suicide then?

 

[koshergrl]

Right up Noomi's alley.

Why must you always think the worst of someone? And please don't invoke Godwins Law. It means you have lost the argument.

I don't always think the worst of everyone. I think very badly of people who promote the killing of innocent people; I don't care what the excuse is, it's a vile and perverted practice and has never brought any good to anyone.

But those who are committed to it don't care.

 

[rightwinger]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Absolutely

You are now "allowed" to die by removing feeding tubes or a respirator and you can suffer for your last hours or days till you finally die. Barbaric

It shouldn't be done on a whim and there needs to be a formal process to end someones life but the patient should have the choice to say ...enough

 

[koshergrl]

Why don't you share the numbers of people being force fed?

The myth that there's this whole food-sucking population of brain dead money drains is a myth perpetuated by people who want the right to kill off undesirables.

 

[Katzndogz]

Why stop at the numbers being fed. Include the numbers of people who need swallowing therapy. Effective counseling can raise the numbers of people who have decided to accept suicide and save the state a fortune.

Why don't we start with the prisons? Counsel lifers and those serving 10 year plus sentences that death is preferable to a life locked up.

 

[rightwinger]

Why don't you share the numbers of people being force fed?

The myth that there's this whole food-sucking population of brain dead money drains is a myth perpetuated by people who want the right to kill off undesirables.

These cases need to be handled on a case by case basis

My father was deprived of oxygen and ended up brain dead and in a coma. His wishes had always been to not let him linger like that. He was very specific

We were required to let him stay in that state for 48 hours and finally remove his respirator. Even then it took two hours of him gasping before he finally passed.

The humane thing would be a lethal injection to allow him to quickly pass rather than force him to linger for days

 

[AmyNation]

Why don't you share the numbers of people being force fed?

The myth that there's this whole food-sucking population of brain dead money drains is a myth perpetuated by people who want the right to kill off undesirables.

These cases need to be handled on a case by case basis

My father was deprived of oxygen and ended up brain dead and in a coma. His wishes had always been to not let him linger like that. He was very specific

We were required to let him stay in that state for 48 hours and finally remove his respirator. Even then it took two hours of him gasping before he finally passed.

The humane thing would be a lethal injection to allow him to quickly pass rather than force him to linger for days

It took my grandmother more than a week to die. She had several mini strokes and eventually fell into a comatose state. She was given a host of pain meds as her body slowly starved and died.

 

[Aristotle]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Absolutely

You are now "allowed" to die by removing feeding tubes or a respirator and you can suffer for your last hours or days till you finally die. Barbaric

It shouldn't be done on a whim and there needs to be a formal process to end someones life but the patient should have the choice to say ...enough

But what if the terminally person ask to die because they're terminally ill?


I assume you've never worked in a hospital before. There are many dying patients. Some want to die because they know they're dying anyway. Others want to die because of excessive and severe pain.

But nobody here wants to discuss the criteria of death.

 

[Aristotle]

I dont want to sound rude but just because you guys share your own personal experiences with your loved ones who suffered, does mean you come up with a logical reason for euthanasia. Pain should not be the sole criteria for euthanasia nor should the patient asking for it. Euthanasia is a slippery slope. You allow euthanasia might as well allow it for people with clinical depression.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Physician Assissted Suicide? I like to call it "Western Medicine".

 

[AmyNation]

Do you feel terminally ill patients should have the right to ask doctors to help them die? Do we as a nation spend too much time trying to keep people alive that we have abandoned the notion of allowing people to have a dignified death?

Absolutely

You are now "allowed" to die by removing feeding tubes or a respirator and you can suffer for your last hours or days till you finally die. Barbaric

It shouldn't be done on a whim and there needs to be a formal process to end someones life but the patient should have the choice to say ...enough

But what if the terminally person ask to die because they're terminally ill?


I assume you've never worked in a hospital before. There are many dying patients. Some want to die because they know they're dying anyway. Others want to die because of excessive and severe pain.

But nobody here wants to discuss the criteria of death.

Hmmm...

Terminal illness
Chronic pain
Debilitating illness

The patient should be able to petition the hospital for physican assistance and then a panel of doctors should review the case to insure that the patient is of sound mind, understands what they are asking for and is under no coercion.

 

[Katzndogz]

Absolutely

You are now "allowed" to die by removing feeding tubes or a respirator and you can suffer for your last hours or days till you finally die. Barbaric

It shouldn't be done on a whim and there needs to be a formal process to end someones life but the patient should have the choice to say ...enough

But what if the terminally person ask to die because they're terminally ill?


I assume you've never worked in a hospital before. There are many dying patients. Some want to die because they know they're dying anyway. Others want to die because of excessive and severe pain.

But nobody here wants to discuss the criteria of death.

Hmmm...

Terminal illness
Chronic pain
Debilitating illness

The patient should be able to petition the hospital for physican assistance and then a panel of doctors should review the case to insure that the patient is of sound mind, understands what they are asking for and is under no coercion.

We all have a terminal illness. It's called living.

 

[AmyNation]

I dont want to sound rude but just because you guys share your own personal experiences with your loved ones who suffered, does mean you come up with a logical reason for euthanasia. Pain should not be the sole criteria for euthanasia nor should the patient asking for it. Euthanasia is a slippery slope. You allow euthanasia might as well allow it for people with clinical depression.

Euthanasia is not the same as physican assisted suicide. I would say, it would have to be written in a will by the person, death would have to be certain and verified by a panel of independent doctors and signed off on by at least 2 members of the family, the patients physican and the independent panel. And if any objection is raised by any family member, then it's an automatic no.