New Study: Gender surgery causes 12x increase in suicide

[Curried Goats]

First off, I told you I don’t expect anyone to entertain my beliefs, and I don’t need to entertain anyone else’s.

I'm just trying to establish what it is you believe. Do you believe yourself more capable than the medical professionals who went to school for this and now do it professionally?

Trump has a narcissism disorder, Johnny Cash has a delusional disorder and transgenders have gender identity disorder, they all believe something they are not.

Do they though? I don't imagine it's that simple. Disorder has a specific meaning, medically. Trump may display narcissistic characteristics but until they become so overwhelming that they cause disorder in his ability to live a structured life then it hasn't reached to the point of disorder. Obsession is another thing that can become a disorder if you start really believing you are the person you're obsessing over but also plenty of people live perfectly ordered lives as Elvis impersonators. Their obsession hasn't reached to the point that it is causing disorder in their ability to live a healthy life.

There is race identity disorder as well. If adults want to look like something they are not, more power to them. If they want surgery to help them feel better about themselves, I have no issue. Kids that don’t even know what they want to be when they grow up, that can’t decide who they really are, should wait and many in the medical community and most Americans agree with my stance.

What makes a trans identity false? How are they trying to be something they're not?

 

[ALightInTheDark]

You just showed those studies you Clown. Did you bother to read any of them? Your own studies cite abuse and discrimination as some of the leading causes of these other personality disorders like anxiety and depression. This is what I mean about context. You point to the studies when you want to show that trans people suffer from these things more than the general population but then you want to insert your own conclusions and treatments based on nothing at all except your ignorant and bigoted opinion. So let's go through some of these studies that you linked to but apparently didn't read or understand.

The first study says this:

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The current study investigated the suicide death risk in the largest clinical cohort of gender‐referred individuals to the Center of Expertise on Gender Dysphoria at the Amsterdam UMC, the Netherlands, between 1972 and 2017. Findings from the chart reviews showed us a decrease in suicide death risk over time in trans women and no change in suicide death risk in trans men. Trans women, however, showed a higher suicide death risk than trans men. Between 2013 and 2017, the suicide risk in Dutch referred transgender people (40 per 100 000 person years) showed to be three to four times higher than the general Dutch population (11 per 100 000 person years). Evaluation of transition stage in relation to suicide deaths showed that approximately two‐third of the observed suicides occurred in those who were still in active treatment (diagnostic, hormonal, or surgical phase). The incidence of suicide deaths and transition stage was similar in trans women and trans men.​

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Suicidal behaviour is a complex phenomenon that is a result of many individual (age, male sex assigned at birth, previous suicide attempts, mental health history, substance abuse) as well as more distant environmental factors. A recent literature review clearly demonstrates the specific risk factors for suicide in sexual minority youth, which includes negative social environments, inadequate support within the closest social network, and an absence of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) movements in communities. In our cohort, both trans women and trans men show a three‐ to four‐fold elevated risk of suicide compared with the population rate in the Netherlands and can therefore be considered a high‐risk group. Although the Netherlands is known for its tolerance toward sexual minority groups in comparison to most countries in the world, the societal position of trans people is generally less favorable compared with the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and cis‐gender population. Furthermore, compared with trans men, the societal position of trans women is lower.​

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Here's a little excerpt from your third link:

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This is, to our knowledge, the largest investigation of mental health diagnoses and substance use prevalence in transgender individuals. We found a statistically significant increase in mental health diagnoses, including mood and anxiety disorders, PTSD, schizophrenia, personality disorders, attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, autism, and substance use disorders. This increased risk has been attributed, in part, to the high rates of discrimination and violence transgender individuals experience. The rates seen in this article are likely inflated by several confounding factors, including the prerequisite mental health assessment before starting medical interventions for transitioning, which may lead to misdiagnosis or overdiagnosis.​

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Although the results of this study suggest increased lifetime prevalence of all mental health disorders among transgender persons, the data do not allow us to track symptoms longitudinally over a patient's medical or surgical transition, which nonrandomized prospective and retrospective studies suggest improve mental health. The emerging field of transgender pediatric research has demonstrated improved mental health outcomes when children are allowed to socially transition at a young age. Improved social support in childhood among transgender persons may be a critical point of intervention for the prevention of significant mental illness in adulthood as described in this article.​

I don't agree with many of the assertions that the studies make that are tertiary to their primary findings. I'm just demonstrating a likely syndrome these individuals have by using established statistics. The studies they are referencing to make these tertiary assertions, are flawed and draw erroneous conclusions.

You also didn't reply to any other part of my post.

 

[Curried Goats]

I don't agree with many of the assertions that the studies make that are tertiary to their primary findings. I'm just demonstrating a likely syndrome these individuals have by using established statistics. The studies they are referencing to make these tertiary assertions, are flawed and draw erroneous conclusions.

You also didn't reply to any other part of my post.

Right.... you only agree with the parts of these studies that you want to and the rest who cares. Science is a buffet you get to pick and choose from.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Right.... you only agree with the parts of these studies that you want to and the rest who cares. Science is a buffet you get to pick and choose from.

These individuals writing these papers are drawing their own hypotheses and conclusions as well. I'm no different.

 

[Curried Goats]

These individuals writing these papers are drawing their own hypotheses and conclusions as well. I'm no different.

You are different. You're an uneducated Bingo and they're the medical professionals who's research you're relying on but only the parts that you agree with. Your cherry picking is pretty damn blatant.

 

[Meathead]

You are different. You're an uneducated Bingo and they're the medical professionals who's research you're relying on but only the parts that you agree with. Your cherry picking is pretty damn blatant.

Are you feeling suicidal? I wish you the best of luck in you endeavor.*

 

[ALightInTheDark]

You are different. You're an uneducated Bingo and they're the medical professionals who's research you're relying on but only the parts that you agree with. Your cherry picking is pretty damn blatant.

I'm more educated than you realize and you also don't realize that researchers that write articles borrow facts from other research papers all the time. This actually shows your likely lack of education or lack of paying attention during your education.

 

[Curried Goats]

I'm more educated than you realize and you also don't realize that researchers that write articles borrow facts from other research papers all the time. This actually shows your likely lack of education or lack of paying attention during your education.

Who are you pretending for you uneducated Bingo? Other researchers do cite other people's work all the time. You'll find a lot of them in the links you yourself provided. What they don't do is pretend the conclusions of that research is something it's not.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

Who are you pretending for you uneducated Bingo? Other researchers do cite other people's work all the time. You'll find a lot of them in the links you yourself provided. What they don't do is pretend the conclusions of that research is something it's not.

I never pretended ithe studies concluded anything. I used it to show support for the statistics I shared. Then I drew my own conclusions about those statistics. Researchers do that all the time

 

[Curried Goats]

I never pretended ithe studies concluded anything. I used it to show support for the statistics I shared. Then I drew my own conclusions about those statistics. Researchers do that all the time

You even pretended to have read them and then asked for other studies that confirmed abuse and abandonment as some of the causes for their other disorders not realizing your own fucking links did just that. You're a clown. Boy.

All I had to do to expose you was read your own fucking evidence. You failed yourself you fucktard.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

You even pretended to have read them and then asked for other studies that confirmed abuse and abandonment as some of the causes for their other disorders not realizing your own fucking links did just that. You're a clown. Boy.

All I had to do to expose you was read your own fucking evidence. You failed yourself you fucktard.

Keep dreaming. I knew exactly what the articles said. The literature is littered with trans activists' ideas, so I'm using their own literature to show a better conclusion. They publish so much that they don't even realize how their own statistics harm their cause. They publish the statistics and I take the statistics and draw my own conclusions. Many others do as well. If you somehow interpreted that I was claiming the studies drew the same conclusions as I did from the statistics, that's on you. You're inability to see that studies only produce a limited set of statistics and from there conclusions are drawn, shows why do many people fall for this nonsense. Studies like these require interpretations and it's unfortunate to see that you can't see through their agenda. It's also interesting that you're now starting to resort to insults.

 

[Curried Goats]

Keep dreaming. I knew exactly what the articles said.

No you didn't you dipshit. You asked for the evidence that was in the links you pretended to have read and understood. Why are you still pretending? We can all go back and look at it and have a good laugh.

The literature is littered with trans activists' ideas, so I'm using their own literature to show a better conclusion.

Your conclusion is born from nothing but your ignorant supposition. That's not showing a better conclusion so much as it is fantasizing one.

They publish so much that they don't even realize how their own statistics harm their cause. They publish the statistics and I take the statistics and draw my own conclusions. Many others do as well.

No one cares about the conclusions you uneducated Bingos draw beyond the amusement it brings to us.

If you somehow interpreted that I was claiming the studies drew the same conclusions as I did from the statistics, that's on you. You're inability to see that studies only produce a limited set of statistics and from there conclusions are drawn, shows why do many people fall for this nonsense. Studies like these require interpretations and it's unfortunate to see that you can't see through their agenda. It's also interesting that you're now starting to resort to insults.

The conclusions the professionals draw are analysis derived from their education and experience. Your just some ignorant Idiot drawing conclusions in crayon in your imagination.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

No you didn't you dipshit. You asked for the evidence that was in the links you pretended to have read and understood. Why are you still pretending? We can all go back and look at it and have a good laugh.

Here's what was said:

You said:

Transgender people suffer from high levels of stigmatization, discrimination and victimization,

I said:

Show studies and statistics for this please.

The studies I shared made arguments for what you were claiming and referenced other studies for those arguments (which I'm already aware of and aren't valid studies). The studies also showed the statistics I was touting and then made speculations (without doing anything to back it up). I am actually aware of studies that actually have done surveys attempting to prove what you are arguing. Again, I'm aware of the studies these studies were referencing. I don't think you're aware though. To my knowledge they've only done survey data and not observational studies. This is why I was challenging you to prove your point with an actual study... Because as far as I know, there's not a legitimate one that's been done.

Your conclusion is born from nothing but your ignorant supposition. That's not showing a better conclusion so much as it is fantasizing one.

My conclusion is as valid is theirs and is supported by science and other scientists.

No one cares about the conclusions you uneducated Bingos draw beyond the amusement it brings to us.

My guess is that if I found another scientist who had the same theories as me, that you would dismiss them as well?

The conclusions the professionals draw are analysis derived from their education and experience. Your just some ignorant Idiot drawing conclusions in crayon in your imagination.

Unfortunately I can't give you my credentials, but I can assure you you are mistaken.

 

[Blaster]

There are quite a few males becoming cross dressers and not having the anxiety experienced by trans women.

 

[Curried Goats]

Here's what was said:

You said:

Transgender people suffer from high levels of stigmatization, discrimination and victimization,

I said:

Show studies and statistics for this please.

The studies I shared made arguments for what you were claiming and referenced other studies for those arguments (which I'm already aware of and aren't valid studies).

I was referencing conclusions from your own damn links you moron. Why would I need to link you to information you already linked to and pretended to have read? That don't make no damn sense.

The studies also showed the statistics I was touting and then made speculations (without doing anything to back it up). I am actually aware of studies that actually have done surveys attempting to prove what you are arguing. Again, I'm aware of the studies these studies were referencing. I don't think you're aware though. To my knowledge they've only done survey data and not observational studies. This is why I was challenging you to prove your point with an actual study... Because as far as I know, there's not a legitimate one that's been done.

What makes them illegitimate other than your say so and if you think those studies are illegitimate then why did you link to them as good examples of the statistics you were referring to? That's what I mean about cherry picking.

My conclusion is as valid is theirs and is supported by science and other scientists.

It's not though. They're professionals do peer reviewed research and you're just some Bingo online saying shit without anything to back up your claims.

My guess is that if I found another scientist who had the same theories as me, that you would dismiss them as well?

Find one Bingo, I'm happy to discuss their work with you.

Unfortunately I can't give you my credentials, but I can assure you you are mistaken.

I'm not. You're an obvious moron.

 

[ALightInTheDark]

I was referencing conclusions from your own damn links you moron. Why would I need to link you to information you already linked to and pretended to have read? That don't make no damn sense.

You need to find the studies that the studies I shared were referencing. The studies I shared don't count because the findings of the studies I shared were that these individuals have more mental health problems and so on. There are other studies out there that have made attempts at understanding why they have more mental health problems. The studies I shared didn't perform research to uncover that.

What makes them illegitimate other than your say so and if you think those studies are illegitimate then why did you link to them as good examples of the statistics you were referring to? That's what I mean about cherry picking.

Find the sites that were referenced and I'll show you why they were faulty

It's not though. They're professionals do peer reviewed research and you're just some Bingo online saying shit without anything to back up your claims.

I've already showed you the statistics to back up my claims. Peer review doesn't mean much in a liberal dominated field.

Find one Bingo, I'm happy to discuss their work with you.

As soon as you find an original study that shows that these individuals are subjected to any more harassment or discrimination (after they've identified themselves as "trans") than any other group of individuals.

I'm not. You're an obvious moron.

When you can't win an argument, insult people?

 

[Curried Goats]

You need to find the studies that the studies I shared were referencing. The studies I shared don't count because the findings of the studies I shared were that these individuals have more mental health problems and so on. There are other studies out there that have made attempts at understanding why they have more mental health problems. The studies I shared didn't perform research to uncover that.

The studies that you linked to reference those other studies you dumb Bingo. You know, the same studies you pretended to have read? Here's a few of those other studies referenced just in the first link you posted.

Prevalence and Correlates of Lifetime Suicide Attempts Among Transgender Persons in Argentina - PubMed

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19419891003634430

Suicidal behaviour among sexual-minority youth: a review of the role of acceptance and support - PubMed

Google Scholar

Find the sites that were referenced and I'll show you why they were faulty

You won't find a lot of information from most of those links without having to pay but the last link is to a pdf file of the study you can download if you want to go over the information in there.

I've already showed you the statistics to back up my claims. Peer review doesn't mean much in a liberal dominated field.

You posted links to prove your claims that trans people are more likely to suffer mental health disorders and attempt suicide than the general population. Those links however also show that many of these disorders and suicide attempts are caused by social stigma, family rejection, job and home insecurity and frequent physical and emotional abuse.

As soon as you find an original study that shows that these individuals are subjected to any more harassment or discrimination (after they've identified themselves as "trans") than any other group of individuals.

When you can't win an argument, insult people?

You found them you dumb Bingo you just never actually read them and insults don't win arguments you Clown, reason and logic do. My insults aren't my arguments, they're the punctuations on my arguments.