Polar Bears Did Fine When Arctic Had No Ice

[JakeStarkey]

As usual, some deniers are misrepresenting a study.

Biological response to climate change in the Arctic Ocean: the view from the past - Springer

First, nowhere in the paper does it say "Polar bears did just fine". It says they _survived_. Big difference. After all, nobody is proclaiming the extinction of polar bears now. So, the paper pretty much matches the predictions.

Second, the paper is not a statement about projecting polar bear populations. It's meant to talk about the past. It is not meant to describe the present of much faster climate change than happened in the past. Faster is worse, as it doesn't allow enough time for new species to spread into the new climate.

The Environazis are in full spin mode now. No mass extinctions in the polar regions, with ice or with palm trees.

You are the environazi, young weatherman. Mamooth club your argument like a baby seal being clubbed by you.

 

[jon_berzerk]

As usual, some deniers are misrepresenting a study.

Biological response to climate change in the Arctic Ocean: the view from the past - Springer

First, nowhere in the paper does it say "Polar bears did just fine". It says they _survived_. Big difference. After all, nobody is proclaiming the extinction of polar bears now. So, the paper pretty much matches the predictions.

Second, the paper is not a statement about projecting polar bear populations. It's meant to talk about the past. It is not meant to describe the present of much faster climate change than happened in the past. Faster is worse, as it doesn't allow enough time for new species to spread into the new climate.

The Environazis are in full spin mode now. No mass extinctions in the polar regions, with ice or with palm trees.

God, you are one stupid fuck. Such a noisy flap yap with not a hint of any kind of knowledge.

Quaternary extinction event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Late Pleistocene extinction event saw the extinction of many mammals weighing more than 40 kg.

• In North America around 33 of 45 genera of large mammals became extinct.
• In South America 46 of 58
• In Australia 15 of 16
• In Europe 7 of 23
• In Subsaharan Africa only 2 of 44

The extinctions in the Americas entailed the elimination of all the larger (over 100 kg) mammalian species of South American origin, including those that had migrated north in theGreat American Interchange. Only in North America, South America, and Australia, did the extinction occur at family taxonomic levels or higher.

The period in which most of this occurred was called the Younger Dryas. A very rapid change of climate that tipped into a colder period for a thousand years, with major extinctions going in and coming out. The cause and how it worked is not at all understood.

“The ramifications are that if the polar bear was an independent species for about 1 million years it survived previous cold and warm periods,” Cronin said. “This means the polar bear has been an independent lineage a long time through glacial and interglacial and warm periods.” The last glacial period was at maximum extent about 22,000 years ago, and was preceded by a warm interglacial period about 130,000 years ago. Other warm and cold periods preceded that. Cronin thinks that if polar bears survived previous warm periods in which there was little or no arctic summer sea ice, this should be used in models predicting the species’ response to current climate change. “It seems logical that if polar bears survived previous warm, ice-free periods, they could survive another. This is of course speculation, but so is predicting they will not survive, as the proponents of the endangered species act listing of polar bears have done.”

https://polarbearscience.files.word...-bear-genetics-uaf-press-release_march-11.pdf

So, IF all the ice melted during the last interglacial, it took ~108,000 years to do so. We're going to manage to accomplish the feat in something a little less. But none of you deniers seem to think that will affect the level of impact to the population of polar bears, ringed seals or walrus.

*we* are not accomplishing anything

nature is following its course

 

[Weatherman2020]

As usual, some deniers are misrepresenting a study.

Biological response to climate change in the Arctic Ocean: the view from the past - Springer

First, nowhere in the paper does it say "Polar bears did just fine". It says they _survived_. Big difference. After all, nobody is proclaiming the extinction of polar bears now. So, the paper pretty much matches the predictions.

Second, the paper is not a statement about projecting polar bear populations. It's meant to talk about the past. It is not meant to describe the present of much faster climate change than happened in the past. Faster is worse, as it doesn't allow enough time for new species to spread into the new climate.

The Environazis are in full spin mode now. No mass extinctions in the polar regions, with ice or with palm trees.

God, you are one stupid fuck. Such a noisy flap yap with not a hint of any kind of knowledge.

Quaternary extinction event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Late Pleistocene extinction event saw the extinction of many mammals weighing more than 40 kg.

• In North America around 33 of 45 genera of large mammals became extinct.
• In South America 46 of 58
• In Australia 15 of 16
• In Europe 7 of 23
• In Subsaharan Africa only 2 of 44

The extinctions in the Americas entailed the elimination of all the larger (over 100 kg) mammalian species of South American origin, including those that had migrated north in theGreat American Interchange. Only in North America, South America, and Australia, did the extinction occur at family taxonomic levels or higher.

The period in which most of this occurred was called the Younger Dryas. A very rapid change of climate that tipped into a colder period for a thousand years, with major extinctions going in and coming out. The cause and how it worked is not at all understood.

“The ramifications are that if the polar bear was an independent species for about 1 million years it survived previous cold and warm periods,” Cronin said. “This means the polar bear has been an independent lineage a long time through glacial and interglacial and warm periods.” The last glacial period was at maximum extent about 22,000 years ago, and was preceded by a warm interglacial period about 130,000 years ago. Other warm and cold periods preceded that. Cronin thinks that if polar bears survived previous warm periods in which there was little or no arctic summer sea ice, this should be used in models predicting the species’ response to current climate change. “It seems logical that if polar bears survived previous warm, ice-free periods, they could survive another. This is of course speculation, but so is predicting they will not survive, as the proponents of the endangered species act listing of polar bears have done.”

https://polarbearscience.files.word...-bear-genetics-uaf-press-release_march-11.pdf

So, IF all the ice melted during the last interglacial, it took ~108,000 years to do so. We're going to manage to accomplish the feat in something a little less. But none of you deniers seem to think that will affect the level of impact to the population of polar bears, ringed seals or walrus.

Another narcissistic leftist who thinks he controls the weather.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The moronic left 15,000 years ago were screaming about the mile thick ice in Illinois melting, and those huge new "Great Lakes" are evidence of man screwing up the weather.

 

[westwall]

Ian appointed me as Grammar Policeman, so I will take this opportunity that in both instances, you should have said "TOO fast"

The entire world's weather has changed too fast. Changes that took thousands or tens or thousands of years or hundreds of thousands of years in the past, humans have accomplished within a single century.

No, it hasn't. It has been remarkably, some would say unnaturally, stable for the last century. The paleontological evidence shows that there have been many periods of rapid warming following a cooling period. In fact it seems to be the norm.

 

[Crick]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now Westwall will post something from one of the dingbat sites, totally without credibility.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

That has to be the funniest non scientific rant in 5 years.

Everyone knows temperature gages from 200,000 years ago are being held in Al Gore's basement.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

How about a glacier receding 44 miles in 90 years? Sure evidence of global warming!

Problem is, it occurred between 1795 and 1888. BEFORE the industrial revolution.

 

[westwall]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

 

[westwall]

Now Westwall will post something from one of the dingbat sites, totally without credibility.

How about Columbia? They legit enough for you?

Now for an example of rapid cooling. As I said, it appears that rapid temperature changes are the norm...

The onset of sudden aridification in Mesopotamia near 4100 calendar yr B.P. coincided with a widespread cooling in the North Atlantic (Bond et al., 1997; deMenocal et al., 2000). During this event, termed Holocene Event 3 (Fig. 5, below), Atlantic subpolar
and subtropical surface waters cooled by 1° to 2°C

Two examples of abrupt climate change

 

[jc456]

Ian appointed me as Grammar Policeman, so I will take this opportunity that in both instances, you should have said "TOO fast"

The entire world's weather has changed too fast. Changes that took thousands or tens or thousands of years or hundreds of thousands of years in the past, humans have accomplished within a single century.

well actually it should have been 'so' fast, but you can't read through a typo now can you? Funny stuff again.

 

[Billy_Bob]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

Now Westwall will post something from one of the dingbat sites, totally without credibility.

How about Columbia? They legit enough for you?

Now for an example of rapid cooling. As I said, it appears that rapid temperature changes are the norm...

The onset of sudden aridification in Mesopotamia near 4100 calendar yr B.P. coincided with a widespread cooling in the North Atlantic (Bond et al., 1997; deMenocal et al., 2000). During this event, termed Holocene Event 3 (Fig. 5, below), Atlantic subpolar
and subtropical surface waters cooled by 1° to 2°C

Two examples of abrupt climate change

These are just two of many of the abrupt changes seen in the paleo record. Dumb and Dumber wont acknowledge that these can happen outside of mans influence becasue it would lay waste to their agenda called AGW. What we have experienced the last 100 years is not abnormal on any level and well within the bounds of historical natural variation.

Excellent Info! To bad dumb and dumber wont use their brains..

 

[westwall]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

Now Westwall will post something from one of the dingbat sites, totally without credibility.

How about Columbia? They legit enough for you?

Now for an example of rapid cooling. As I said, it appears that rapid temperature changes are the norm...

The onset of sudden aridification in Mesopotamia near 4100 calendar yr B.P. coincided with a widespread cooling in the North Atlantic (Bond et al., 1997; deMenocal et al., 2000). During this event, termed Holocene Event 3 (Fig. 5, below), Atlantic subpolar
and subtropical surface waters cooled by 1° to 2°C

Two examples of abrupt climate change

These are just two of many of the abrupt changes seen in the paleo record. Dumb and Dumber wont acknowledge that these can happen outside of mans influence becasue it would lay waste to their agenda called AGW. What we have experienced the last 100 years is not abnormal on any level and well within the bounds of historical natural variation.

Excellent Info! To bad dumb and dumber wont use their brains..

I know, that's why I said it appears to be the norm and nowhere near the exception.

 

[Crick]

Holocene Event 3 occurred over a period of 4,200 years dipshit.

The Younger Dryas was not global, did not do 10C over 10 years even over the Northern Hemisphere and if it concerns you, you should be worried about the melting of the Greenland ice sheet.

The change was relatively sudden, taking place in decades, and resulted in a decline of 2 to 6 degrees Celsius, advances of glaciers and drier conditions, over much of the temperate northern hemisphere. It is thought to have been caused by a decline in the strength of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation, which transports warm water from the equator towards the North Pole, and which in turn is thought to have been caused by an influx of fresh cold water from North America into the Atlantic. The Younger Dryas was a period of climatic change, but the effects were complex and variable. In the southern hemisphere, and some areas of the north such as the south-eastern United States, there was a slight warming.[1]
...
Global effects

In western Europe and Greenland, the Younger Dryas is a well-defined synchronous cool period.[34] But cooling in the tropical North Atlantic may have preceded this by a few hundred years; South America shows a less well defined initiation but a sharp termination. The Antarctic Cold Reversal appears to have started a thousand years before the Younger Dryas, and has no clearly defined start or end; Peter Huybers has argued that there is fair confidence in the absence of the Younger Dryas in Antarctica, New Zealandand parts of Oceania.[35] Timing of the tropical counterpart to the Younger Dryas – the Deglaciation Climate Reversal (DCR) – is difficult to establish as low latitude ice core records generally lack independent dating over this interval. An example of this is the Sajama ice core (Bolivia), for which the timing of the DCR has been pinned to that of the GISP2 ice core record (central Greenland). Climatic change in the central Andes during the DCR, however, was significant and characterized by a shift to much wetter, and likely colder, conditions.[36] The magnitude and abruptness of these changes would suggest that low latitude climate did not respond passively during the YD/DCR.

 

[Billy_Bob]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

Now Westwall will post something from one of the dingbat sites, totally without credibility.

How about Columbia? They legit enough for you?

Now for an example of rapid cooling. As I said, it appears that rapid temperature changes are the norm...

The onset of sudden aridification in Mesopotamia near 4100 calendar yr B.P. coincided with a widespread cooling in the North Atlantic (Bond et al., 1997; deMenocal et al., 2000). During this event, termed Holocene Event 3 (Fig. 5, below), Atlantic subpolar
and subtropical surface waters cooled by 1° to 2°C

Two examples of abrupt climate change

These are just two of many of the abrupt changes seen in the paleo record. Dumb and Dumber wont acknowledge that these can happen outside of mans influence becasue it would lay waste to their agenda called AGW. What we have experienced the last 100 years is not abnormal on any level and well within the bounds of historical natural variation.

Excellent Info! To bad dumb and dumber wont use their brains..

I know, that's why I said it appears to be the norm and nowhere near the exception.

The 10 deg C change in just 10-15 years makes today look like a drip in the oceans. No amount of adjustments or manipulation can make today's rise in temp of just 0.61 deg C over 125 years be worse than what happen naturally.The rate of rise is staggering.. 0.091 / decade vs 1.0 / year. a factor of over 100 times greater and 100 times faster

It truly is sad others here call themselves scientists and ignore such glaring evidence which disproves their meme..

 

[Crick]

Fantasy

Although the start of the Younger Dryas is regarded to be synchronous across the North Atlantic region, recent research concluded that the start of the Younger Dryas might be time-trangressive even within this region. After an examination of laminated varve sequences, Muschitiello and Wohlfarth found that the environmental changes that define the beginning of the Younger Dryas are diachronous in their time of occurrence according to latitude. According to these changes, the Younger Dryas occurred as early as c. 12,900–13,100 calendar years ago along latitude 56–54°N. Further north, they found that these changes occurred at c. 12,600–12,750 calendar years ago.[31]

That's 500 years dude.

And completely regional.

 

[Old Rocks]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

Exactly.

Quaternary extinction event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Late Pleistocene extinction event saw the extinction of many mammals weighing more than 40 kg.

• In North America around 33 of 45 genera of large mammals became extinct.
• In South America 46 of 58
• In Australia 15 of 16
• In Europe 7 of 23
• In Subsaharan Africa only 2 of 44

The extinctions in the Americas entailed the elimination of all the larger (over 100 kg) mammalian species of South American origin, including those that had migrated north in theGreat American Interchange. Only in North America, South America, and Australia, did the extinction occur at family taxonomic levels or higher.

Both going into the YD, and coming out, there were extinction events. Adrupt climate changes are not pleasant. Problem is, for going in, and coming out, we don't know what tipped the climate to change that adruptly. And we don't know if we are setting ourselves up for something similiar today. And we won't know until it is hindsight.

 

[westwall]

You lie. Show us a single instance prior to the Industrial Revolution in which temperatures have risen as quickly as they have in the last century. You say there have been many. Let's see ONE. In particular, let's see one in the last 200,000 years.

Poor cricky, you really don't know anything do you? For shame...


The most spectacular aspect of the YD is that it ended extremely abruptly (around 11,600 years ago), and although the date cannot be known exactly, it is estimated from the annually-banded Greenland ice-core that the annual-mean temperature increased by as much as 10°C in 10 years.


Two examples of abrupt climate change

Exactly.

Quaternary extinction event - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Late Pleistocene extinction event saw the extinction of many mammals weighing more than 40 kg.

• In North America around 33 of 45 genera of large mammals became extinct.
• In South America 46 of 58
• In Australia 15 of 16
• In Europe 7 of 23
• In Subsaharan Africa only 2 of 44

The extinctions in the Americas entailed the elimination of all the larger (over 100 kg) mammalian species of South American origin, including those that had migrated north in theGreat American Interchange. Only in North America, South America, and Australia, did the extinction occur at family taxonomic levels or higher.

Both going into the YD, and coming out, there were extinction events. Adrupt climate changes are not pleasant. Problem is, for going in, and coming out, we don't know what tipped the climate to change that adruptly. And we don't know if we are setting ourselves up for something similiar today. And we won't know until it is hindsight.

10C in TEN years. You claimed that it doesn't happen. You claimed that this time is the only time it has ever happened. So, were you just plain old ignorant or were you lying?

 

[westwall]

Fantasy

Although the start of the Younger Dryas is regarded to be synchronous across the North Atlantic region, recent research concluded that the start of the Younger Dryas might be time-trangressive even within this region. After an examination of laminated varve sequences, Muschitiello and Wohlfarth found that the environmental changes that define the beginning of the Younger Dryas are diachronous in their time of occurrence according to latitude. According to these changes, the Younger Dryas occurred as early as c. 12,900–13,100 calendar years ago along latitude 56–54°N. Further north, they found that these changes occurred at c. 12,600–12,750 calendar years ago.[31]

That's 500 years dude.

And completely regional.

You silly people claim that the MWP was regional too. However every time it is looked for it is found everywhere. So your claims are crap.