[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

Actually what is forcing deterioration, not unexpectedly, is make more money regardless of the cost to others, as the sole rule of business.

It's extremism which never works.

Yeah, I can see where it's hurt Apple....

Apple made more money regardless of the cost to others.

 

[kaz]

You keep saying that your ideas about the constitution are supreme. That's the shtick of every tyrannical government.

I say let's stick to the source of freedom, democracy.

Democracy isn't in the Constitution...

Universal suffrage is definitely in the Constitution.

I'll explain that to you. The United States is a republic, it's not a democracy.

The States (i.e., republics) are democracies. The various amendments related to voting, such as universal suffrage, suffrage, ban on poll taxes and that sort of thing relate to voting in the republics, which while having some actual democracy (e.g., propositions in California), are generally representative democracies, meaning they represent people to vote for them. Senators, Representatives, governors that sort of thing.

 

[itfitzme]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

 

[bripat9643]

The surplus had to do much more with revenues than expenses. He just avoided starting endless and expensive wars.

I agree with your other point. Business deserves the credit then and the blame now.

Government spending, revenue, and regulations are three separate issues. Business behavior by the number of businesses in each of the various industries are still other separate issues.

Broad brush statements placing blame point to someone that is making up a straw-man to serve an agenda.

I agree with the "agenda" to be more careful in going forward with Wars against sovereign nations because we don't like their religious beliefs or the products they make or the gangs of thugs that roam in their borders.

" Broad brush statements placing blame point to someone that is making up a straw-man to serve an agenda."

Another conservative against accountability.

Private citizens aren't required to be "accountable' to anyone except under a tyranny.

 

[bripat9643]

The Constitution is the bylaws for government. The body of law legislated by Congress over the years is what defines legal behavior for people and organizations.

And people and organizations constantly challenge that law and that’s why enforcement is such a huge expense (read big government) for us. The only thing more expensive would be not enforcing our laws.

As I said before, the biggest problems of today are in the business sector achieving growth. They've lost the handle and presently we're losing to global competition.

It will be a race between business finding growth again and our deteriorating society. Every year of deterioration will make the business challenge more difficult.

Yes, and the democrat plan is to force deterioration of our society. Each and very year of deterioration making the business challenge more and more difficult. Thus, allowing the government to step in, take control of each and every industry, to save the day for the mess they created.

Actually what is forcing deterioration, not unexpectedly, is make more money regardless of the cost to others, as the sole rule of business.

It's extremism which never works.

Businesses have to follow the law like everyone else. What stops you from making money regardless of the cost to anyone else?

 

[bripat9643]

Actually what is forcing deterioration, not unexpectedly, is make more money regardless of the cost to others, as the sole rule of business.

It's extremism which never works.

Yeah, I can see where it's hurt Apple....

Apple made more money regardless of the cost to others.

What "cost" to others?

 

[bripat9643]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Failed economics, did you?

 

[RKMBrown]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

ROFL you have no clue what GDP is, do you?

Do you rent your house? If the answer is no, it does not matter, the government assumes in it's GDP that your house is being rented. IOW it assumes in the GDP the rent value of all US property.

Did you get a new free software update to your phone in the last year? The Government counts new features, even if free, as increased GDP.

GDP is one of the screwiest measures we have.

 

[Foxfyre]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Failed economics, did you?

At least he may have failed "Google"

In 2012 the average U.S. income was $42,693, and it is no doubt somewhat lower this year as it has been steadily dropping a bit ever since Obama took office. It would not be as high as it is if government wages had not substantailly increased during the Obama administration.

As of September 2013 the BLS reports that 138,641,000 people in the USA are employed making this the lowest percentage of the work force employed since the Great Depression. The BLS does not address how many of those 138+ million want full time work but are forced to work part time or are otherwise under employed. And it doesn't factor in all those working two or more jobs and are therefore counted twice. If we had reliable numbers on that, the situation would likely look far more grim.

 

[RKMBrown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

 

[itfitzme]

Oh, I see the idiots are posting bullshit. They should earn less than the average. Why, because they live in the lazy red states instead of the hard working blue states that actually generate more money, goods and services.

Top ten biggest earning states for the past four years include seven states that registered primarily Democratic in 2010

Table 1. Real GDP by State, 2009-2012......................................................................
..............Millions of chained (2005) dollars........................................................
.............. ................... .2009..............2010..............2011..............2012*..............
California.........1,667,152..............1,672,473..............1,692,301..............1,751,002..............1
Texas...................1,071,959..............1,116,268..............1,156,013..............1,211,692..............0
New York......... 974,078..............1,013,251..............1,024,985..............1,038,541..............1
Florida..............648,642..............650,291..............656,346..............672,287..............1
Illinois..............561,154..............571,228..............583,055..............594,201..............1
Pennsylvania..... 482,665..............493,530..............502,769..............511,345..............1
New Jersey......... 424,871..............431,409..............432,415..............438,173..............1
Ohio....................405,483..............413,991..............425,913..............435,104..............0
North Carolina... 372,219..............380,693..............382,655..............392,905..............1
Virginia.................... 363,730..............377,466..............381,493..............385,772..............0


Why do Republican's think they are entitled?

 

[kaz]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Just some of the big ones.

The GDP is total revenue, not profit. So by your calculation, you would be paying out 100% of revenue to employees and not paying any other cost.

You are also hugely double counting. If a vendor sells a component to someone building a larger product, they incorporate the price of the product in their overall cost and you're counting both.

You are also counting all government expenditures twice. The part of revenue, which is used to pay taxes (corporate, income, ...) is counted both for the company and again when it's spent by government.

And finally, you're giving zero to the owners who risked their money and bought the equipment and paid the employees to build the product/service.

Out of curiosity, do you admit you're a Marxist, or are you like PMZ? You're a capitalist who gets his material from the Communist Manifesto?

 

[itfitzme]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Just some of the big ones.

The GDP is total revenue, not profit. So by your calculation, you would be paying out 100% of revenue to employees and not paying any other cost.

You are also hugely double counting. If a vendor sells a component to someone building a larger product, they incorporate the price of the product in their overall cost and you're counting both.

You are also counting all government expenditures twice. The part of revenue, which is used to pay taxes (corporate, income, ...) is counted both for the company and again when it's spent by government.

And finally, you're giving zero to the owners who risked their money and bought the equipment and paid the employees to build the product/service.

Out of curiosity, do you admit you're a Marxist, or are you like PMZ? You're a capitalist who gets his material from the Communist Manifesto?

You don't understand GDP. GDP is the final end product only. It doesn't double count. It only counts the end use products. The end use product price includes all the costs for all the labor and material, the value added, all the way up the supply chain to the source of the raw materials. This is exactly what GDP is.

"Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time. GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living......Under economic theory, GDP per capita exactly equals the gross domestic income (GDI) per capita ."

Gross domestic product - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It accounts for the dollar value of all the work done by all the people that worked.

Nor am I giving zero to owners. They make more, because they are smart. You make less because you don't know what GDP is.

GDP is exactly not what you said. I admit that you are clueless. I really honestly can't believe that you got GDP so completely wrong and actually had the nards to post it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually what is forcing deterioration, not unexpectedly, is make more money regardless of the cost to others, as the sole rule of business.

It's extremism which never works.

Yeah, I can see where it's hurt Apple....

Apple made more money regardless of the cost to others.

But you said it never works?

 

[RKMBrown]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Just some of the big ones.

The GDP is total revenue, not profit. So by your calculation, you would be paying out 100% of revenue to employees and not paying any other cost.

You are also hugely double counting. If a vendor sells a component to someone building a larger product, they incorporate the price of the product in their overall cost and you're counting both.

You are also counting all government expenditures twice. The part of revenue, which is used to pay taxes (corporate, income, ...) is counted both for the company and again when it's spent by government.

And finally, you're giving zero to the owners who risked their money and bought the equipment and paid the employees to build the product/service.

Out of curiosity, do you admit you're a Marxist, or are you like PMZ? You're a capitalist who gets his material from the Communist Manifesto?

You don't understand GDP. GDP is the final end product only. It doesn't double count. It only counts the end use products. The end use product price includes all the costs for all the labor and material, the value added, all the way up the supply chain to the source of the raw materials. This is exactly what GDP is.

"Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time. GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living......Under economic theory, GDP per capita exactly equals the gross domestic income (GDI) per capita ."

Gross domestic product - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It accounts for the dollar value of all the work done by all the people that worked.

Nor am I giving zero to owners. They make more, because they are smart. You make less because you don't know what GDP is.

GDP is exactly not what you said. I admit that you are clueless. I really honestly can't believe that you got GDP so completely wrong and actually had the nards to post it.

ROFL... first you say we should divide GDP to calculate income. Then you admit GDP is not income but rather value. Then you deride someone for pointing our your error. ROFL you are typical marxist idiot.

 

[Uncensored2008]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Why should it be that, comrade?

And if you steal from those who produce to give to those who do not, how long would the mean GDP stay at this level? Why would Andrew Gove design chips if he is to be robbed and get the same as a wino rotting in a alley? Why would Bill Gates design marvelous software? Why would Steve Jobs steal what Gates created and market it to drooling sycophants?

What you communists cannot grasp is motivation. Your greed creates nothing. If you succeed in robbing others, what motivation do they have to produce and create?

 

[Uncensored2008]

What "cost" to others?

Microsoft.

But I don't feel too sorry for them. Sure, Apple stole every product they've ever had from M$ - but M$ is such a disaster at marketing ANYTHING that it's hard to get too worked up over it. The iPaq was out for 3 years before Apple stole it and cloned the iPhone. M$ couldn't manage to sell the damned things or get people to want it.

 

[RKMBrown]

What "cost" to others?

Microsoft.

But I don't feel too sorry for them. Sure, Apple stole every product they've ever had from M$ - but M$ is such a disaster at marketing ANYTHING that it's hard to get too worked up over it. The iPaq was out for 3 years before Apple stole it and cloned the iPhone. M$ couldn't manage to sell the damned things or get people to want it.

You have it backwards. Msft is the company built by copying others.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You have it backwards. Msft is the company built by copying others.

Quick, name something that Apple didn't steal?

I got nothing...

Look, both M$ and Apple were important to the technology revolution.

M$ supplied the brains, Apple supplied the hype.

And don't underestimate hype; the greatest program in the world is useless, if no one knows about it or uses it.

Creative Labs created the MP3 player, but it wasn't until Apple stole their intellectual property and made the iPod that the era of portable MP3's began. And Creative sued the fuck out of Apple, so everyone eventually won.

Apple steals technology from others, and markets it with amazing skill.

 

[itfitzme]

$109,703.86 per year average income.


The gross domestic product for 2012 was $15684.80 billion.

There were 142,974,000 people employed.

So, the average income should be $109,703.86 per year.

That is exactly what it should be.

So, that would be the "fair share" number. $109,703.86 per year average income.

Why should it be that, comrade?

And if you steal from those who produce to give to those who do not, how long would the mean GDP stay at this level? Why would Andrew Gove design chips if he is to be robbed and get the same as a wino rotting in a alley? Why would Bill Gates design marvelous software? Why would Steve Jobs steal what Gates created and market it to drooling sycophants?

What you communists cannot grasp is motivation. Your greed creates nothing. If you succeed in robbing others, what motivation do they have to produce and create?

What are you talking about. GDP is what the people in the United States of America produce in one year. It isn't what is produced in China.

You really aren't very bright, are you? The concept of average escapes you.

The amazing thing is that it has come to my attention that the right wing nuts are the least productive in the United States.

I didn't say you should make that.

California and New York alone produced 20% of the total GDP in 2010.

The Democratic leaning states far outproduce the right wing nut States. In 2010, 65% of the GDP was produced by Democratic states. That is 65 to 35. Go look it up.

The right wing nuts produce far below that $109k per year average. I'm still trying to figure out why they think their opinions count, seeing as they don't actually do the work. It sounds to me like a ploy to steal other peoples money.

I so wish the Fed would cut of their lifeline.

You are so out of touch with reality that it is just sad.