[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[g5000]

In the current income tax regime, if you buy a house, you pay less taxes than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy a house.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy a house, you will get a bigger monthly rebate than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy as house.

Same difference.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy the right kind of refrigerator, you will get a bigger monthly rebate check the month after you buy it.

All of these extra rebates will quickly add up to over a trillion dollars a year, just like they do now.

To pay for all that shit, the government will have to raise the Fair Tax, at which point the American people (the same people accepting all these gifts) will howl like welfare queens. Just like they do now. So the government will not raise taxes and will borrow the money from China instead to pay for all those extra rebates, which will continue to run up the debt as a result.

Just like they do now.

 

[RKMBrown]

When two households earning identical incomes are paying identical income taxes, then we will have a fair system.

I'll show you a fair income tax when you show me a fair system of slavery.

Well said.

Abolish income taxes altogether and enact a flat national sales tax.

AKA, the FairTax.

Flat sales + additional import duties to adjust for product dumping, such as using slave rate child labor.

 

[RKMBrown]

I'll show you a fair income tax when you show me a fair system of slavery.

Well said.

Abolish income taxes altogether and enact a flat national sales tax.

AKA, the FairTax.

You two are very naive.

You think Congress would not get right to work putting carve-outs in a Fair Tax in exchange for campaign cash the same way they do with income taxes?

Taxing, spending, campaign finance, and quid-pro quo are four completely different issues. Pretending none can be solved without solving all of them at the same time is just silly. But if you want to do that go ahead and start shooting cause you'll need a revolution to fix everything at the same time.

 

[RKMBrown]

In the current income tax regime, if you buy a house, you pay less taxes than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy a house.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy a house, you will get a bigger monthly rebate than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy as house.

Same difference.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy the right kind of refrigerator, you will get a bigger monthly rebate check the month after you buy it.

All of these extra rebates will quickly add up to over a trillion dollars a year, just like they do now.

To pay for all that shit, the government will have to raise the Fair Tax, at which point the American people (the same people accepting all these gifts) will howl like welfare queens. Just like they do now. So the government will not raise taxes and will borrow the money from China instead to pay for all those extra rebates, which will continue to run up the debt as a result.

Just like they do now.

You are defining a fair tax as a screwed up tax, then saying see the fair tax is screwed up. Duh. Just make it a sales tax just as is done by most states today and be done with it. Chill dude.

 

[g5000]

In the current income tax regime, if you buy a house, you pay less taxes than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy a house.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy a house, you will get a bigger monthly rebate than someone who earns the same income you do who did not buy as house.

Same difference.

In a Fair Tax regime, if you buy the right kind of refrigerator, you will get a bigger monthly rebate check the month after you buy it.

All of these extra rebates will quickly add up to over a trillion dollars a year, just like they do now.

To pay for all that shit, the government will have to raise the Fair Tax, at which point the American people (the same people accepting all these gifts) will howl like welfare queens. Just like they do now. So the government will not raise taxes and will borrow the money from China instead to pay for all those extra rebates, which will continue to run up the debt as a result.

Just like they do now.

You are defining a fair tax as a screwed up tax, then saying see the fair tax is screwed up. Duh. Just make it a sales tax just as is done by most states today and be done with it. Chill dude.

The Fair Tax is not a sales tax. If it was, they would call it a National Sales Tax. Duh.

What I said stands. It is exactly what would happen to the rebate process.

 

[g5000]

Well said.

Abolish income taxes altogether and enact a flat national sales tax.

AKA, the FairTax.

You two are very naive.

You think Congress would not get right to work putting carve-outs in a Fair Tax in exchange for campaign cash the same way they do with income taxes?

Taxing, spending, campaign finance, and quid-pro quo are four completely different issues. Pretending none can be solved without solving all of them at the same time is just silly. But if you want to do that go ahead and start shooting cause you'll need a revolution to fix everything at the same time.

They can all be solved at the same time. It is very simple: Ban all tax expenditures. If you remove the incentive to give a Congressman campaign cash, that tit will dry right up. If a Congressman can't add a deduction/credit/subsidy/loophole/boondoggle to the tax code, there is no point paying him to do so.

Presto, you just solved campaign finance without having to write yet another failed campaign finance reform legislation.

No exceptions. Ban ALL tax expenditures.

Now watch the pseudo-welfare queens come crawling out of the woodwork to defend their sacred cows.

It's a seriously fucked up system that has people earning identical incomes paying different amounts of taxes, but that is exactly what we have.

 

[RKMBrown]

You two are very naive.

You think Congress would not get right to work putting carve-outs in a Fair Tax in exchange for campaign cash the same way they do with income taxes?

Taxing, spending, campaign finance, and quid-pro quo are four completely different issues. Pretending none can be solved without solving all of them at the same time is just silly. But if you want to do that go ahead and start shooting cause you'll need a revolution to fix everything at the same time.

They can all be solved at the same time. It is very simple: Ban all tax expenditures. If you remove the incentive to give a Congressman campaign cash, that tit will dry right up. If a Congressman can't add a deduction/credit/subsidy/loophole/boondoggle to the tax code, there is no point paying him to do so.

No exceptions. Ban ALL tax expenditures.

Now watch the pseudo-welfare queens come crawling out of the woodwork to defend their sacred cows.

What is a tax expenditure? Do you mean ban people from writing checks to the government for taxes owed?

 

[g5000]

Just as an aside, a national sales tax would be extremely regressive.

Just like the mortgage interest deduction is.

The "FairTax" tries to fix this by providing monthly rebates. But that leaves it wide open to the identical corruption we have today with the income tax (Congressmen being paid campaign cash to add exemptions to the code). With the Fair Tax, it would mean extra rebates for buying the right products or behaving the way the government wants you to behave.

Good little sheep.

 

[RKMBrown]

Just as an aside, a national sales tax would be extremely regressive.

Just like the mortgage interest deduction is.

Regressive to who? Regressive to home owners? WTF dude put down the pipe.

 

[Contumacious]

When two households earning identical incomes are paying identical income taxes, then we will have a fair system.

I'll show you a fair income tax when you show me a fair system of slavery.

Well said.

Abolish income taxes altogether and enact a flat national sales tax.

AKA, the FairTax.

The Fair Tax Fraud

.

 

[g5000]

Just as an aside, a national sales tax would be extremely regressive.

Just like the mortgage interest deduction is.

Regressive to who? Regressive to home owners? WTF dude put down the pipe.

Government milk has made you soft in the head.

The bigger the mortgage you have (the richer you are), the bigger the deduction you get. That is textbook regressive.

For every dollar you take in gifts from the government, that is a dollar that someone else has to make up for, or that the government has to borrow.

So if you are very wealthy, you can take out a much bigger mortage than someone who earns a lower income. This means you get a much bigger gift from the government, which means many more dollars everyone else has to pay for or many more dollars that have to be borrowed to give you that gift.

The wealthier you are, the bigger the expense your deductions are to everyone else.

And that is regressive. Textbook.

Simple economics.

 

[g5000]

Here comes the welfare queen mindset.

Watch.

 

[RKMBrown]

Just as an aside, a national sales tax would be extremely regressive.

Just like the mortgage interest deduction is.

Regressive to who? Regressive to home owners? WTF dude put down the pipe.

Government milk has made you soft in the head.

The bigger the mortgage you have (the richer you are), the bigger the deduction you get. That is textbook regressive.

For every dollar you take in gifts from the government, that is a dollar that someone else has to make up for, or that the government has to borrow.

So if you are very wealthy, you can take out a much bigger mortage than someone who earns a lower income. This means you get a much bigger gift from the government, which means many more dollars everyone else has to pay for or many more dollars that have to be borrowed to give you that gift.

The wealthier you are, the bigger the expense your deductions are to everyone else.

And that is regressive. Textbook.

Simple economics.

No one gets a mortgage deduction for sales taxes. I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[g5000]

You are defining a fair tax as a screwed up tax, then saying see the fair tax is screwed up. Duh. Just make it a sales tax just as is done by most states today and be done with it. Chill dude.

The Fair Tax is not a sales tax. If it was, they would call it a National Sales Tax. Duh.

What I said stands. It is exactly what would happen to the rebate process.

Actually, they do call it a national sales tax.

It's more than that. It comes with monthly rebates, which is where it is wide open to corruption.

But without the rebates, it is highly regressive.

So the FairTax is lose/lose if we do not ban all tax expenditures.

If we banned all tax expenditures, we would not need the FairTax.

But I agree with you on the tax expenditures issue. It should be a flat tax for everyone; no loopholes.

If we banned all tax expenditures, then the income tax would be just fine the way it is.

In fact, we could lower the tax rates for everyone. This is what the jackholes who defend tax expenditures don't get. With all their deductions and subsidies and credits and loopholes, they are forcing everyone to pay higher tax rates, and forcing the government to borrow trillions of dollars from foreign countries!

Just so they can have their government crutches.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Clintons

Unless you can show me a country that has better.

 

[g5000]

Regressive to who? Regressive to home owners? WTF dude put down the pipe.

Government milk has made you soft in the head.

The bigger the mortgage you have (the richer you are), the bigger the deduction you get. That is textbook regressive.

For every dollar you take in gifts from the government, that is a dollar that someone else has to make up for, or that the government has to borrow.

So if you are very wealthy, you can take out a much bigger mortage than someone who earns a lower income. This means you get a much bigger gift from the government, which means many more dollars everyone else has to pay for or many more dollars that have to be borrowed to give you that gift.

The wealthier you are, the bigger the expense your deductions are to everyone else.

And that is regressive. Textbook.

Simple economics.

No one gets a mortgage deduction for sales taxes. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm getting the impression you have no idea how the Fair Tax works.

There is an entire industry devoted to donating large sums of cash to campaign coffers to ensure Congress keeps the mortgage interest deduction in the current income tax code. A huge government crutch. It's either the second or third largest crutch in the tax code that costs about $120 billion a year. Ironically, that deduction is priced into the cost of a house! But as a result of that deduction, everyone else has to pay higher taxes ($120 billion) to cover the kickback to homebuyers.

Now, do you seriously believe that if we went to a FairTax, that same massive industry would not be paying the same large cash donations to Congress to ensure Congress provides a rebate kickback ($120 billion) to homebuyers?

You think they would give that $120 billion up? If you believe that would happen, you are incredibly naive.

 

[g5000]

We are hostage to $1.4 trillion of annual tax expenditures.

Everyone demands them. They demand them. Just like welfare queens.

Congress is paid good money to put that gigantic economic drain in the tax code. Lots of campaign cash. Because that is what everyone demands of them.

If we actually raised taxes to the level necessary to pay for all those expenditures, the country would howl. So Congress borrows the money instead. That's why we have a $17 trillion debt.

YOU put it there. Not the darkie with the ObamaPhone. YOU did it.

We could actually lower tax rates if you weren't such welfare queens.

 

[RKMBrown]

Government milk has made you soft in the head.

The bigger the mortgage you have (the richer you are), the bigger the deduction you get. That is textbook regressive.

For every dollar you take in gifts from the government, that is a dollar that someone else has to make up for, or that the government has to borrow.

So if you are very wealthy, you can take out a much bigger mortage than someone who earns a lower income. This means you get a much bigger gift from the government, which means many more dollars everyone else has to pay for or many more dollars that have to be borrowed to give you that gift.

The wealthier you are, the bigger the expense your deductions are to everyone else.

And that is regressive. Textbook.

Simple economics.

No one gets a mortgage deduction for sales taxes. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm getting the impression you have no idea how the Fair Tax works.

There is an entire industry devoted to donating large sums of cash to campaign coffers to ensure Congress keeps the mortgage interest deduction in the current income tax code. A huge government crutch. It's either the second or third largest crutch in the tax code that costs about $120 billion a year. Ironically, that deduction is priced into the cost of a house! But as a result of that deduction, everyone else has to pay higher taxes ($120 billion) to cover the kickback to homebuyers.

Now, do you seriously believe that if we went to a FairTax, that same massive industry would not be paying the same large cash donations to Congress to ensure Congress provides a rebate kickback ($120 billion) to homebuyers?

You think they would give that $120 billion up? If you believe that would happen, you are incredibly naive.

I have no idea what fair tax you are talking about. Near as I can tell we still have income taxes and they are most certainly not fair. I was talking about a sales tax. It would appear you, by contrast, want to rail against the current income tax system and subsequent exemptions. Ok fine, you are yelling at who? Please tell me who is arguing with you?

 

[Contumacious]

If we actually raised taxes to the level necessary to pay for all those expenditures, the country would howl. So Congress borrows the money instead. That's why we have a $17 trillion debt.
.

Congress (1) INFLATES THE CURRENCY and (2) borrows

.

 

[ScienceRocks]

We are hostage to $1.4 trillion of annual tax expenditures.

Everyone demands them. They demand them. Just like welfare queens.

Congress is paid good money to put that gigantic economic drain in the tax code. Lots of campaign cash. Because that is what everyone demands of them.

If we actually raised taxes to the level necessary to pay for all those expenditures, the country would howl. So Congress borrows the money instead. That's why we have a $17 trillion debt.

YOU put it there. Not the darkie with the ObamaPhone. YOU did it.

We could actually lower tax rates if you weren't such welfare queens.

Maybe we could do what Mexico does and
1. Not have welfare
2. Flood Mexico and Canada with our poor