POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[Andylusion]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

All of the lock down measures that I've seen, have not been effective, as near as I can tell.
The clear example of this, would be Italy, which is again as near as I can tell, has the most strict and harsh lock down measure of any country.

Yet virus infections are still rising.

So.... given there doesn't seem to be much value in lock down, then we are left with a pointless policy that damages the entire economy. Corona, no matter which way you look at it, will be short term. Damage to the economy will be long term.

Now I do understand the logic, of trying to flatten the curve, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Again... not seeing that this is working.

I tried to explain this to these guys before it all has to do with the natural logarithm of increase. Most socially transmitted diseases fall well within the realm of controllability by virtue of their contagion factor. But this thing is right off the charts. It really makes a person suspicious that it shows up with a two-week incubation period. Now consider the fact that the natural logarithm also has an inverse proportionality. Since 3 is a limit that it never reaches the fact that this thing has a contagion factor of more than that indicates that it's probably not controllable at all. Based on our ability to increase our treatment of it we find ourselves falling below the natural logarithm of increase. And we will never surpass that because nothing in nature ever has. Along comes covid-19 where the infected person most likely contacts hundreds of people before he knows he's even sick.
The mathematical indicators create an impossible scenario. even those places that are now boasting control and containment or complete elimination will eventually be ravaged. It's inescapable.

Jo

You can't be ravaged if your on lockdown. China has effectively controlled it. If there is a second wave after they reopen, they can lockdown again. As time goes by, we get closer to a vaccine. With a vaccine, everything changes.

Japan only has 1,500 cases. Its under control there. It could have been that way too for the United States, but Trump and the rest of the leadership failed to act in January and February.

I agree with one point....Vaccine yes.
Other than that I predict global exposure
Is inevitable.... It's not going away.

Jo

Exactly. That's the point. The problem with this logic, is that we are still operating under the impression that we can eliminate this.

Well... the Chinese haven't been able to eliminate the other Corona strains, and they were LESS contagious than this strain.

Again.... could be wrong. Could be wrong! I'll be the first to admit it!

But given that they can't eliminate the previous less dangerous strain, and this strain hasn't been contained...... anywhere.....

So if you can contain this thing, I see precious little evidence to support it.

 

[Andylusion]

Send the checks. If we need another round then send round 2.

And when the country goes bankrupt, and then there's no checks, or food, or anything.... will it be worth it?

Hard question...

 

[Andylusion]

Ho

This crises is the same thing.

how so?

~S~

Non-essential services shut down while essential services ramp up production. It happened in World War II and its happening now.

methinks you've got that just a tad skewed U2

the then labor force simply were redirected to 'war effort' jobs

they weren't told they were non-essential & outta work

Like yours truly ,along with my construction mates

Distorting history to paint it to your view is...

~S~

Staying home is your job if your not in an essential service. The government is sending out many to millions of people that are staying home. Cash to stay home in this pandemic is no different that cash to go to another country and fight Nazi's in World War II. Your doing a job important to DEFEATING THE ENEMY and receiving money from the government.

If everyone is going to stay at home who will be left to make the Toilet Paper?

And that's the other problem....

In order to actually contain this.... you can't have half the country still going to work. All the stores are still open, and not only are all the stores still open, but all the stores are hiring additional people to stock the stores. All of the stores are hiring in my area. May of that have increased they total crew levels by 50% to double.

And of course all the hospitals are hiring, and all the other places are hiring.

I still go to work. My company said we got an exemption, because JBS meat packing still wants their $1,000 laptops... so I'm going to work. And I see cars all over the highway.

When you still have millions of people all going to work... how do you really think this is going to be contained?

Well it isn't.

So what's the point of all this? It's not helping. The virus is still spreading and will continue to spread.

The only way to stop it, is to literally stop everything. Well that's not happening.

So this is nothing more than an economy destroying pointless waste of time.

That's how it appears to me. AGAIN... I could be wrong.

We're not doing what china did. China literally shut everything down. Total and complete lock out.

You can do that in a totalitarian country. Italy is trying that, and now people are starting to fight back. You can't just lock people up until they all die, in a western country.

Coronavirus: Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing

Police descend on a supermarket after reports people have stolen food to feed themselves, as patience turns to desperation.

news.sky.com

It's going to be riots and anarchy in Italy before too long.

 

[j-mac]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

We won't have a country left if we allow the economy to cease to exist....

How Many Small Businesses Are in the U.S.? | Fundera

We’ve gathered some questions you might be asking about small business employment and growth, and then compiled the statistics to answer.

www.fundera.com

 

[j-mac]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

I am begining to think that is the approach.

 

[kyzr]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our "new/active case" peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

 

[Lesh]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

 

[sparky]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

so much for the lockdown.....

~S~

 

[Lesh]

We won't have a country left if we allow the economy to cease to exist....

We won't have an economy OR much of a country if we do nothing and allow this thing to ravage us

 

[kyzr]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

I'm not tracking deaths, but they are a lagging indicator.
Keeping my fingers crossed the virus lessens from here.

 

[kyzr]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

so much for the lockdown.....

~S~

This virus reminds me of the movie "Cloverfield". Very tough to stop and its deadly.

 

[j-mac]

We won't have a country left if we allow the economy to cease to exist....

We won't have an economy OR much of a country if we do nothing and allow this thing to ravage us

Good lord...What makes you think "we are doing nothing"? That is just ridiculous.

 

[sparky]

Guide to the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act) includes provisions to help small businesses. Here are the highlights.

www.uschamber.com

So this ^^^^ is the Fed's response for sm biz like yours truly

Note it will be filtered through 'compliant' states....

~S~

 

[Lesh]

Good lord...What makes you think "we are doing nothing"? That is just ridiculous.

Who said "we are doing nothing"?
I said "If we do nothing"..

there is a huge difference and my comment was a response to those who would "go back to normal" wayyyyy too soon

 

[Gdjjr]

The "authority" can be "marshal law" or what they are using now.

Are you talking about *Martial* Law? At some point people will get fed up with this bullshit and the martial law enforcers are going to have riots on their hands.
You people don't seem to realize, or maybe you do and actually want it, that we are on the brink of Martial Law.
That is Dangerous. It happened with Katrina but was regional. 1 region. Nation wide there will be trouble.
Anybody remember Clive Bundy? 1 region. Anybody read In the Spirit of Crazy Horse in which Leonard Peltier was railroaded into prison. 1 region These fucks will do what they are allowed to get away with. And even suggesting, by another citizen, that certain age groups, or class or whatever be forcefully quarantined is submitting to the bullshit.
But like I said, maybe many want it. If so they're fucking idiots and pandering to them with sunshine and lollipops and "suggestions" about what could happen for everyones sake will not stop the idiocy and oh, btw, it won't help the suggester in the end either.

 

[sparky]

Are you talking about *Martial* Law? At some point people will get fed up with this bullshit and the martial law enforcers are going to have riots on their hands.

~S~

 

[initforme]

There is no magic cure here but our healthcare systems are stressed now and it's crazy to just carelessly send everyone back to work and then we have a healthcare disaster. Trump has done a GREAT GREAT thing not only signing but PUSHING the govt checks to people who are going to need it. That's called leadership. He obviously knows this is the CORRECT move. He is a financial expert and if he thought this was a bad thing he wouldn't have pushed for it

 

[Gdjjr]

He obviously knows this is the CORRECT move.

To try to buy votes for more gov't. The gov't, as was established, originally, was not a savior. It was a facilitator of private commerce to help ensure that all who wanted could participate w/o concern for legal restrictions pandering to one over another. The founders had many arguments about central banks (the fed reserve) and centrally planned control over distant observers of free enterprise by a gov't. In fact, they fought a war to get out from under the thumb of that very thing. Now, here we are begging to be quashed and given direction from somewhere other than ourselves about how to act.
SMH-

 

[Redfish]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

We can not let this thing beat us...The economy needs to get going again with the understanding that people must pay attention to their surroundings, and practice good hygine...

The only way to beat this thing, they way it has been proven to be defeated, is through extreme lockdown and testing. Lockdown and Testing are the two pillars. Until the PATHOGEN is defeated, non-essential business is irrelevant. This is a national crises and sacrifices must be made to defeat the enemy.

Hmmm, how about if we treat it like we treated chicken pox and measles? continue our lives and people get it, recover, and then have a life time immunity?

What is gained by stopping the virus and destroying the country?

That idea would kill 1 million Americans by the end of April. That would be a disaster which is why every government on the planet is not doing that.

The country is not going to be destroyed by shutting down non-essential services. The United States shut down thousands of business's during World War II that were not essential to the war effort.

Right now, millions of American lives are at stake because this virus and the deaths from it are growing exponentially. It is not like some other disease. It is a deadly pathogen that is easily transmissible.

Were talking about people's lives here.

you are wrong, the mortality rate of corona has been shown to be very close to the annual flu. THIS IS NOT A DISASTER THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

When ignorant people like you and some of the Trump-hating media pukes spew this garbage, you are creating a panic situation that is totally unnecessary.

This thing will play itself out very soon. continuing to shut down the country will kill a lot more people than the virus ever could.

I am still waiting for one of you prophets of doom to tell us how many of the old sick people who have died with the virus would have died anyway from their underlying conditions. Until you can do that, all the stats are meaningless.

 

[Gdjjr]

Orange Man Bad- the worse virus to ever hit the US.
Any Democrat Saint. The best remedy the west has ever had.
LOL fucking idiots.