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Impossible for our lives to have been identical.the two of us have had very different experiences.
- Trust those that seek the truth, distrust those that claim to have found it. - paraphrase of words attributed to the BuddhaI suppose one could take that route. As for me, I was more interested in seeking and finding than figuring out appropriate questions. Find. Then ask questions. Might be doing things in reverse, but that often works for me.
Never claimed to be a christian. That is just a term/name used by His followers after his death.You're projecting on me. I'm sorry you had bad experiences as a kid--really. But people holding to the precepts of their faith is to be expected. As I said. I would never tell Hindus hey, I'm Hindu but I eat meat and also worship Jesus, that's just the way I do it, and expect them to accept me. They would say that's not Hinduism, and they would be right.
The words in the Bible, strung together, have meaning and are the foundation of our faith. Not believing them does not make you any less of a human being. But not believing them also does not make you, or anyone else, a Christian.
"These [Biblical] books existed in the oral tradition for hundreds of thousands of years. They finally wrote them down in aramaic, later translated into Greek, & then Latin, and finally English, hundreds and hundreds of revisions: and this is supposed to be absolute direct word of God. ... " actor John FugelsangBut I still stand by translations being screwed up from time to time, according TO the times it was transcribed.
Ever play the game when you were a kid where a line of you stood shoulder to shoulder
And anothers lack of faith and misrepresentation of the Holy Scriptures.....effects "my" faith how?a) You presume.
Let us instead agree that scripture is to be researched and understood. Whether any holy scripture is the word of god is a very separate issue.
There's more than one way to fleece a flock.
My comment was addressed at the one, extremist strategy of absolutizing holy scripture. It's a simple strategy. By assuming scriptural infallibility there is no challenging it. All the preacher need do is quote the scripture, and then say: "Your quarrel is not with me. It's with the Holy Bible. And the Holy Bible cannot be questioned, as it is the inerrant word of god."
This may be unfamiliar to some. I've seen it more than once. And I've never been a Christian.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 10 Aug. 1787
BUT !!
For moral / ethical / theological guidance we must recognize fact from error. And the problem is, in issues difficult enough to send one to holy scripture for guidance & resolution, chances are validating a scriptural assertion as 100% guaranteed valid is problematic.
"What goes up must come down." This was an indisputable truism less than a century ago. BUT !! Voyager 1 went up. It's never coming down. I'd suggest skepticism, open-mindedness instead of commitment to the notion of absolute truth. The omniverse is in flux.
And it needn't prove anything more to successfully dismiss the extremist rantings of those that attempt to modify our behavior or outlook by their bizarre & self-serving misinterpretations of holy scripture.
I don't dispute the copyist error explanation, though it is not the only one.
The point is, if the authority of holy scripture is reduced from divine, inerrant word of god, to - the best they could do under the circumstance -
then those that would use holy scripture as a tool of coercion are left firing blanks.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." sometimes attributed to Seneca the Younger (c.3 BCE - CE 65)
I don't mind a little guidance now & then.
But I am alert to ruse when the preacher's pov is imposed as a divine imperative, the way anti-choice oppressors are known to do.
All that is required is to point out some reasonable explanation for the transcribed mistakes and that demonstrates the fact there can be no "factual discrepancies".......as a FACT leaves no room for any feasible explanation......a fact is beyond any reason of doubt and must be supported entirely with objective evidences.
to ad nauseam and it does not effect the prima facie evidence that I presented that demonstrated through the science of "comparative analysis" that the supposed "factual discrepancies" i.e., scriptural contradictions were a matter of human error not factual contradictions.
A quick overview of the Spanish Inquisition. In all other parts of the Christian world, most welcomed being able to choose the Church to try them over the State. The Church was known for being more fair (or perhaps more lenient). I do not remember the man's name but the one in charge of the Spanish Inquisition tried and sentenced more people than all other Inquisitors in Christianity. Ironic, how a single person can undo the good name and the good work of Inquisitions over the years. "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" Unfortunately, neither did the Church.Spanish Inquisition.
I do hope you will reconsider. Sometimes a break helps. The forum would be less without you. Hugs.Face it. This forum is be the kind of christian THEY demand of you. Who are "they"? Those who thump, get snarky if you don't grovel, demand you think exactly as they do.
Fuck this shit. I will not step foot back in this forum. Ever.
Never claimed to be a christian. That is just a term/name used by His followers after his death.
Believe what you wish. Just stop expecting me to believe what YOU believe that is exactly what you are doing when you waggle your finger at me. Knock it off.
Face it. This forum is be the kind of christian THEY demand of you. Who are "they"? Those who thump, get snarky if you don't grovel, demand you think exactly as they do.
Fuck this shit. I will not step foot back in this forum. Ever.
And for the record..I have had not one, not two, not five bad experiences with "christians" who claim they are. I have had MANY MANY bad experiences. Bad. First time was when I was about 10. I think. Somewhere around that age. I will NOT got into detail. But that person(s) were NOT christians. At least, not the kind I thought they were at that age.
Last time I went to church was when I was about 17ish.
Last preacher I had any contact with was about 4 years ago. Episcopal. No thanks. She was pretty cruel and I didn't even attend her church. Rotten. Greedy. Agendas.
Dealing with tenants for over 40 years, the most problems I had from tenants was the "christians" that spouted and thumped as they tried to get out of paying rent or not moving once I gave them plenty of chances to pay it. And lie? Omg. One couple gossiped around the complex that I was having an affair with another tenant...one that I was booting out to boot but that didn't sway their vicious tongues. HE got booted out for lack of rent payment and being an overall asshole to all his neighbors, and so did the gossip couple. They thumped their way to church crying about how UNchristian I was.
Oh, and lets not forget the Baptist church my sister went to, but came to me crying because the preacher stood at the podium and said my dad was burning in hell for owning a bar....my dad, who read the bible every night, spoke to me of passages and what they meant, and was so loved by the whole town, at his furneral the fire department was there, the whole police force, and of course all his friends and customers from the "den of filth" and liquor store and cafe he owned for so long and gave out milk and bread and candy and food to poor people. But..he's in hell for owning it? Liqour? oh my. Get a rope. Fuckers.
So spare me the bullshit. I trust NOBODY...no human.....except God and Jesus....and animals, that have no agendas except to BE animals. They have both saved me numerous times from really BAD situations. I love them both. They know it. I don't need their book to know it. And They look out for me. If not..I'd be dead by now.
If we were back in 1692, people like sweetsue would accuse me of being a witch because their cow didn't have any milk left.
I've already proved this false once. I'll do so again.
And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. 1 Kings 4:26
And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. 2 Chron. 9:25
This scriptural discrepancy is a full order of magnitude.
It alone disproves the notion of scriptural infallibility. And once that is proved, the entire house of cards tumbles down. You're most welcome.
Idiom. The number 40 is used throughout the Bible, as is the number 12. In other words, no one bothered with an actual count of the stalls, but there were a lot. And each horse had a rider. (Twelve is the number that indicates completeness.)
Let me summarize for you then... you aren't reading the Bible to discover the intent of the authors. You are reading it to confirm your bias.d #44
My sincere thanks. But my current ISP imposes severe bandwidth limits, my reason for operating in text mode rather than video mode.
I'm not ignoring your message. Instead I'm confessing that present circumstance prevents me from watching your video.
I offer you the opportunity to make your point in text, the way I do.
Means 1) nobody can come to me unless god sends themJohn 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.
This suddenly struck me as two verses at odds with each other. It seems more logical that it is either one or the other...how can it be both? Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?
In Exodus 3, it does say that an angel of the Lord appeared unto Moses in the flaming fire (see verse 2). But the angel wasn't the only one there. God then spoke to Moses from the bush (see verses 4,6,7,11,13,14,15).
www.jewishencyclopedia.com
Jesus was the Great I AM. He was the God of the Old Testament.
John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me untoJohn 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...
John 14:6 - No one comes to the Father except through me.
This suddenly struck me as two verses at odds with each other. It seems more logical that it is either one or the other...how can it be both? Does the Father draw us to Jesus, or does Jesus alone draw us to the Father? Your thoughts?
You people talk of all these gods if they existed when clearly they didn't. They never have. It's absolute rubbish.
But I'll give you a better understanding of the God of the old testement you are currently worshipping.
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
How does that guy with your beliefs.
