Questions about the conflict in Israel?

[Daniyel]

Its like Israel would claim Sinai ..

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Documents like constitutions, charters, etc. normally have a number of officials who sign the bottom to endorse that document.

Show me a list of Hamas officials who signed that charter.

Tinmore, are you actually still selling this load of crap? Why are you making claims that even Hamas itself isn't? Have you run out of false propaganda?

So, you don't know which Hamas officials endorsed that charter.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and go by your argument. Let's say, for the moment, that this Charter wasn't "endorsed", and was only used as a recruiting tool for the Intifadas.
Even as a recruiting tool, doesn't the Charter reflect a mindset and mentality so different from the Western mind that produced America's Declaration of Independence? "In the future the rocks and trees will point out the Jews saying--Here is a Jew and there is a Jew--so that we can kill them." So devoid of anything normal to the Western mind! Furthermore, Tinmore and monte keep on stressing how Christians are sooo much a part of the Palestinian people, yet only the Muslims are referred to in the Charter!! Useful tools can only describe the naive people on this Board...

 

[Slyhunter]

Documents like constitutions, charters, etc. normally have a number of officials who sign the bottom to endorse that document.

Show me a list of Hamas officials who signed that charter.

Tinmore, are you actually still selling this load of crap? Why are you making claims that even Hamas itself isn't? Have you run out of false propaganda?

So, you don't know which Hamas officials endorsed that charter.

They haven't rescinded it so they must all do.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, are you actually still selling this load of crap? Why are you making claims that even Hamas itself isn't? Have you run out of false propaganda?

So, you don't know which Hamas officials endorsed that charter.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and go by your argument. Let's say, for the moment, that this Charter wasn't "endorsed", and was only used as a recruiting tool for the Intifadas.
Even as a recruiting tool, doesn't the Charter reflect a mindset and mentality so different from the Western mind that produced America's Declaration of Independence? "In the future the rocks and trees will point out the Jews saying--Here is a Jew and there is a Jew--so that we can kill them." So devoid of anything normal to the Western mind! Furthermore, Tinmore and monte keep on stressing how Christians are sooo much a part of the Palestinian people, yet only the Muslims are referred to in the Charter!! Useful tools can only describe the naive people on this Board...

That facts are that the so called charter was written by one man and it was not endorsed by any Hamas leader.

None of that charter made it into the Palestinian constitution of 2003.

None of it was in the platform of the Change and Reform (Hamas) Party in 2006.

It was written almost 30 years ago under different circumstances and a different generation.

You should update your information.

 

[Kondor3]

So, you don't know which Hamas officials endorsed that charter.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and go by your argument. Let's say, for the moment, that this Charter wasn't "endorsed", and was only used as a recruiting tool for the Intifadas.
Even as a recruiting tool, doesn't the Charter reflect a mindset and mentality so different from the Western mind that produced America's Declaration of Independence? "In the future the rocks and trees will point out the Jews saying--Here is a Jew and there is a Jew--so that we can kill them." So devoid of anything normal to the Western mind! Furthermore, Tinmore and monte keep on stressing how Christians are sooo much a part of the Palestinian people, yet only the Muslims are referred to in the Charter!! Useful tools can only describe the naive people on this Board...

That facts are that the so called charter was written by one man and it was not endorsed by any Hamas leader.

None of that charter made it into the Palestinian constitution of 2003.

None of it was in the platform of the Change and Reform (Hamas) Party in 2006.

It was written almost 30 years ago under different circumstances and a different generation.

You should update your information.

Do we have any reliable understanding of timing, for the last time that The Charter was publicly utilized or referenced, or served-up as a recruiting tool?

30 years ago?

20 years ago?

10 years ago?

Yesterday?

If The Charter continues to be utilized by Hamas, regardless of its endorsements or age or history, then, we may safely assume that it is an accepted declaration, and still operative.

So, information on the history of its usage, if know-able, would prove invaluable, to proving or disproving its present state of operability.

Personally, I wouldn't know where to begin, to make that determination, but I think that's the kind of data needed, to prove or disprove the thing.

And, of course, it seems reasonable to consider the thing still operative, until new information comes to light.

====================================

The obligatory Wiki, for anyone wishing a quick primer on the Hamas Covenant...

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And, reading the Wiki, I get the impression that (1) the Covenant was formally ratified and (2) is still operative - although their leadership protests that they cannot change it for 'internal reasons' (Brooklyn Bridge, anybody?).

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and go by your argument. Let's say, for the moment, that this Charter wasn't "endorsed", and was only used as a recruiting tool for the Intifadas.
Even as a recruiting tool, doesn't the Charter reflect a mindset and mentality so different from the Western mind that produced America's Declaration of Independence? "In the future the rocks and trees will point out the Jews saying--Here is a Jew and there is a Jew--so that we can kill them." So devoid of anything normal to the Western mind! Furthermore, Tinmore and monte keep on stressing how Christians are sooo much a part of the Palestinian people, yet only the Muslims are referred to in the Charter!! Useful tools can only describe the naive people on this Board...

That facts are that the so called charter was written by one man and it was not endorsed by any Hamas leader.

None of that charter made it into the Palestinian constitution of 2003.

None of it was in the platform of the Change and Reform (Hamas) Party in 2006.

It was written almost 30 years ago under different circumstances and a different generation.

You should update your information.

Do we have any reliable understanding of timing, for the last time that The Charter was publicly utilized or referenced, or served-up as a recruiting tool?

30 years ago?

20 years ago?

10 years ago?

Yesterday?

If The Charter continues to be utilized by Hamas, regardless of its endorsements or age or history, then, we may safely assume that it is an accepted declaration, and still operative.

So, information on the history of its usage, if know-able, would prove invaluable, to proving or disproving its present state of operability.

Personally, I wouldn't know where to begin, to make that determination, but I think that's the kind of data needed, to prove or disprove the thing.

And, of course, it seems reasonable to consider the thing still operative, until new information comes to light.

====================================

The obligatory Wiki, for anyone wishing a quick primer on the Hamas Covenant...

Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And, reading the Wiki, I get the impression that (1) the Covenant was formally ratified and (2) is still operative - although their leadership protests that they cannot change it for 'internal reasons' (Brooklyn Bridge, anybody?).

Israel uses it constantly. I have never heard a Palestinian mention it.

Maybe we should change it to the Israeli Charter. They are the only ones using it.

 

[teddyearp]

So, you don't know which Hamas officials endorsed that charter.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and go by your argument. Let's say, for the moment, that this Charter wasn't "endorsed", and was only used as a recruiting tool for the Intifadas.
Even as a recruiting tool, doesn't the Charter reflect a mindset and mentality so different from the Western mind that produced America's Declaration of Independence? "In the future the rocks and trees will point out the Jews saying--Here is a Jew and there is a Jew--so that we can kill them." So devoid of anything normal to the Western mind! Furthermore, Tinmore and monte keep on stressing how Christians are sooo much a part of the Palestinian people, yet only the Muslims are referred to in the Charter!! Useful tools can only describe the naive people on this Board...

That facts are that the so called charter was written by one man and it was not endorsed by any Hamas leader.

None of that charter made it into the Palestinian constitution of 2003.

None of it was in the platform of the Change and Reform (Hamas) Party in 2006.

It was written almost 30 years ago under different circumstances and a different generation.

You should update your information.

No, I think you should. Your wiki link actually has much the same information as the one posted by Kondor. And in both links this sentence stands out very glaringly:

In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."

Furthermore, to make sure you do update your information, both links talk about how Hamas has tried to move away or become more secular from that original charter, but if so why can't it be changed? "For internal reasons"? And now lets really get on down. There's a lot of peace talk in those links.

But it seems as that even though Hamas can talk a talk, they fail to walk the walk. Show me some videos or any credible evidence that they really want peace now with Israel and I'll show you plenty where they want Israel to just die.

I think a video posted by a couple folks here last night sums it up wonderfully. The whole Israel/Palestine problem is summed up like this: One side wants the other side to die.

In all honesty [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION] I know now why you have disabled your reputation points.

p.s. [MENTION=25033]RoccoR[/MENTION], you knocked it out of the park. Again.

 

[Billo_Really]

This information does not accurately reflect the doctrine as presented by:

The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) Website

Operative words, "Resistance Movement".

End the occupation and blockade and there will be no movement of resistance.

 

[Billo_Really]

I don't get, why the Palestinians even dare to claim over the west bank?! The whole claim is ridiculous-they are not Jordanian but they claim a land given by Jordan to Israel, when actually they should claim Jordanian land as well ( remember the Mandate?)

The only thing you need to know is the West Bank is not Israel's.

That's it! Now get the fuck out!

 

[Kondor3]

I don't get, why the Palestinians even dare to claim over the west bank?! The whole claim is ridiculous-they are not Jordanian but they claim a land given by Jordan to Israel, when actually they should claim Jordanian land as well ( remember the Mandate?)

The only thing you need to know is the West Bank is not Israel's.

That's it! Now get the fuck out!

Now that's funny...

 

[teddyearp]

I don't get, why the Palestinians even dare to claim over the west bank?! The whole claim is ridiculous-they are not Jordanian but they claim a land given by Jordan to Israel, when actually they should claim Jordanian land as well ( remember the Mandate?)

The only thing you need to know is the West Bank is not Israel's.

That's it! Now get the fuck out!

Ding Ding Ding! A hit and run! Caught on tape!

Just curious. Why wasn't (or isn't) there any 'outcry' over Jordan's occupation of the West Bank from 1948 to 1967? And prove it wasn't an occupation. One that did not allow the citizens full citizenship by the occupying power.

 

[Votto]

This should pretty much answer those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8

I should have said Gaza not Israel in my headline. But it still remains true.

Over 70 percent of US Jews Are liberal and leftists ,

Which helps explain why they found themselves in ovens in Nazi Germany.

The reason that Jews are targeted by the left is because they are wealthier on average than any other group. Just look at the Occupy Wall Street gang yelling that the Wall Street Jews should go back to Israel.

This is why Hitler targeted them. They were stripped of their wealth and had their throats slit. They were a small enough minority that it made little difference to most people. In fact, cutting down rich folk is usually popular.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Interesting you should say that.

This information does not accurately reflect the doctrine as presented by:

The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) Website

Operative words, "Resistance Movement".

End the occupation and blockade and there will be no movement of resistance.

(COMMENT)

I don't believe that for a minute.

But more importantly, if the Palestinians are "occupied" then who has effective control of the state?

Remember --- Article 42 Hague Convention (1907): "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."

And if that is the case, then the Resistance [(acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)(guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons)] is illegal under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.

Most Respectfully,
R