Reason and Experience tell us that there is Evidence for a Creator

[sealybobo]

Tell you what, when you can address each of my points, indicating that you actually read my post, just as I did, then you might have something of value to say.

I'll wait...

I don't need to address those points because I am not arguing on behalf of religion. I am trying to understand the basis for your belief that religion is a harmful influence.

So, you don't even feel the need to read what I wrote. Then we have nothing ore to discuss. You really should examine your own biases.

I read it. I didn't see a reason to argue it. After all this is about your objectivity. I can't force you to be objective. If you want to claim that there was little positive influence from religion, that is your mistake to make. I merely provided this excerpt to prove to you the influence religion has had on Western Civilization.

Of course religions offer a lot of positives. Like every other business it wouldn't exist if it didn't.

Like a drug it also has some negative side affects too. Like anal leakage. And seek help if you pray for over 4 hours.

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

 

[sealybobo]

Reason and experience tell us that there is evidence for a Creator.

Yes it it easy to ponder how we got here and come to the conclusion that something greater than us put us here but every piece of evidence for this creator are stories made up. Some on purpose (cults) and some people truly believe they had an experience.

There may be a creator and if he does care you better be good for goodness sake.

Do I think belief would matter to this creator? No. That religion bs.

I think it's important people be open to the possibility there might not be a God. Otherwise that person talks about God as if it's a fact when it is not.

God can't even qualify as a theory. At least not a scientific one. So while reason and experience might tell you one thing evidence says another

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

 

[ding]

I don't need to address those points because I am not arguing on behalf of religion. I am trying to understand the basis for your belief that religion is a harmful influence.

So, you don't even feel the need to read what I wrote. Then we have nothing ore to discuss. You really should examine your own biases.

I read it. I didn't see a reason to argue it. After all this is about your objectivity. I can't force you to be objective. If you want to claim that there was little positive influence from religion, that is your mistake to make. I merely provided this excerpt to prove to you the influence religion has had on Western Civilization.

Of course religions offer a lot of positives. Like every other business it wouldn't exist if it didn't.

Like a drug it also has some negative side affects too. Like anal leakage. And seek help if you pray for over 4 hours.

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

 

[ding]

Reason and experience tell us that there is evidence for a Creator.

Yes it it easy to ponder how we got here and come to the conclusion that something greater than us put us here but every piece of evidence for this creator are stories made up. Some on purpose (cults) and some people truly believe they had an experience.

There may be a creator and if he does care you better be good for goodness sake.

Do I think belief would matter to this creator? No. That religion bs.

I think it's important people be open to the possibility there might not be a God. Otherwise that person talks about God as if it's a fact when it is not.

God can't even qualify as a theory. At least not a scientific one. So while reason and experience might tell you one thing evidence says another

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

 

[Czernobog]

Reason and experience tell us that there is evidence for a Creator.

Yes it it easy to ponder how we got here and come to the conclusion that something greater than us put us here but every piece of evidence for this creator are stories made up. Some on purpose (cults) and some people truly believe they had an experience.

There may be a creator and if he does care you better be good for goodness sake.

Do I think belief would matter to this creator? No. That religion bs.

I think it's important people be open to the possibility there might not be a God. Otherwise that person talks about God as if it's a fact when it is not.

God can't even qualify as a theory. At least not a scientific one. So while reason and experience might tell you one thing evidence says another

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

So...this "creator" is as flawed as we are? Why would anyone want to worship a flawed being? In that case, I might as well worship my cousin Brent. All hail Brent!

 

[Czernobog]

So, you don't even feel the need to read what I wrote. Then we have nothing ore to discuss. You really should examine your own biases.

I read it. I didn't see a reason to argue it. After all this is about your objectivity. I can't force you to be objective. If you want to claim that there was little positive influence from religion, that is your mistake to make. I merely provided this excerpt to prove to you the influence religion has had on Western Civilization.

Of course religions offer a lot of positives. Like every other business it wouldn't exist if it didn't.

Like a drug it also has some negative side affects too. Like anal leakage. And seek help if you pray for over 4 hours.

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

Sorry, Sealybobo. dingdong seems to think that anyone who is not completely enamoured with magical thinking must be authoritarian, and want to pass laws to criminalise religion.

 

[Czernobog]

Yes it it easy to ponder how we got here and come to the conclusion that something greater than us put us here but every piece of evidence for this creator are stories made up. Some on purpose (cults) and some people truly believe they had an experience.

There may be a creator and if he does care you better be good for goodness sake.

Do I think belief would matter to this creator? No. That religion bs.

I think it's important people be open to the possibility there might not be a God. Otherwise that person talks about God as if it's a fact when it is not.

God can't even qualify as a theory. At least not a scientific one. So while reason and experience might tell you one thing evidence says another

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

 

[ding]

I read it. I didn't see a reason to argue it. After all this is about your objectivity. I can't force you to be objective. If you want to claim that there was little positive influence from religion, that is your mistake to make. I merely provided this excerpt to prove to you the influence religion has had on Western Civilization.

Of course religions offer a lot of positives. Like every other business it wouldn't exist if it didn't.

Like a drug it also has some negative side affects too. Like anal leakage. And seek help if you pray for over 4 hours.

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

Sorry, Sealybobo. dingdong seems to think that anyone who is not completely enamoured with magical thinking must be authoritarian, and want to pass laws to criminalise religion.

You don't think he could answer that question on his own? Or is it that you believe I am so dangerous that he needed cliff notes. Either way, that ain't good.

 

[ding]

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

Well... since you don't believe in God, don't you think that is a little silly of you to blame him for that?

 

[Czernobog]

Of course religions offer a lot of positives. Like every other business it wouldn't exist if it didn't.

Like a drug it also has some negative side affects too. Like anal leakage. And seek help if you pray for over 4 hours.

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

Sorry, Sealybobo. dingdong seems to think that anyone who is not completely enamoured with magical thinking must be authoritarian, and want to pass laws to criminalise religion.

You don't think he could answer that question on his own? Or is it that you believe I am so dangerous that he needed cliff notes. Either way, that ain't good.

Oh, I'm sorry. You were bragging earlier that 6 against one was unfair, and we were all outgunned. What? You suddenly can't handle just two?

 

[ding]

You get that both Easter, and Christmas are pagan holidays that Christianity usurped, right? As is Halloween. I'm not sure that should be used as a positive influence. Basically Christian theocrats criminalised, and persecuted non-christian religions out of existence. yeah...that was positive. As for art, culture, and philosophy, you should ask Miguel de Cervantes whether he thinks that Christianity was a positive influence on art. The Church used art as propaganda. Nothing more. Just as Hitler commissioned art, in the form of posters, to create propaganda. So, unless you want to suggeswt that Hitler inspired art, your claim is not really accurate. As to culture, and philospohy, I think many imprisoned philosophers during the middle ages, who were imprisoned for their "heretical" ideas would also disagree with that claim.

I find it interesting that da Vinci, and Raphael were included in those great artists that Christianity was responsible for, as both were repeatedly censured, and, in the case of Da Vinci, imprisoned for the very art that they created. It should also be pointed out that while, yes, the Church did create universities, and colleges, it should be noted that they were not the cathedrals of learning, and advances that the article seems to be implying. Copernicus, Keppler, Cecco, among many others were imprisoned, and worse for putting forth scientific theories that conflicted with Church teaching. so, again, trying to portray medieval
Christianity as a supporting influence of learning is more than a little disingenuous.

Again, 'strongly influenced' is not the same as "positively influenced". I won't get into the question of abortion, as I suspect we would have very different opinions on that topic, so let's just agree to leave that one alone, shall we? However, condemning birth control? Really? As far as marital infidelity, or incest, I would submit that Christianity was not necessary for those condemnations. Moving back to the present, I am clearly not a Christian, and I think marital infidelity, and incest is a bad idea. However, I would also submit that The Church didn't have quite as much influence there, as one might think. Want evidence of that? Look at the family lineages of nobility in almost any nation in Europe. Purity of the lineage seems to have been much more important than any ickiness of incest. And men, particularly among the nobility, were quite unfaithful. They were often fucking more than their wives. Hell, in Scotland, the nobility even enjoyed what was known as primae noctis - the right of a Lord to fuck your wife, on the first night of your wedding. Yes, that was actually a thing, and it was quite common. So, yeah, not real sure how influential Christianity was in preventing either infidelity, or incest. On the other hand, I would agree that Christianity did have some positive influence on social justice during the medieval period.

How adorable that the article does briefly mention that, yeah, the Church has done some bad stuff, too. In conclussion, yes, the article you cut and pasted has demonstrated a few positive influences Christianity has had on Western Civilisation. However, because of its clear bias, it gave Christianity credit for having positive influences that were clearly not positive, and it glossed over the negative influences from the same period. So, would I conclude that the positive outweighed the bad? Not based on this article.

I also find it amusing that when I asked you to list some of the positive influences that Christianity has had, you were, ultimately, incapable of doing so, and had to go look up a rather biased Wikipedia article to do it for you, while I was able, on my own, with my own intellect, scholarship, and experience able to rattle off numerous examples of Christian atrocities. Rather says a lot about your ability of independent, original critical thinking.

So then you are happy enough to assign the bad things which occurred in Western Civilization to Christians but not the good things. Are you sure you believe you are being objective?

Tell you what, when you can address each of my points, indicating that you actually read my post, just as I did, then you might have something of value to say.

I'll wait...

While you are gathering your thoughts on what went into your equation of good or positive influences of religion, maybe you could answer a question for me.

Do you believe that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed?

Nope. I will not answer any further biased questions from you. You clearly do not wish to have an honest discussion. You just want to be praised for your cleverness. I will not help you do that.

Does ding acknowledge any of the points we make?

Is ding trying to convince us or ding?

This is seriously a person who's questioning if there is a creator. Come on ding. Make the leap. You can do it!

Remember, even if there is a "creator" it doesn't care and never visits

You haven't made any points because you have no evidence that God does not exist.

 

[Czernobog]

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

Well... since you don't believe in God, don't you think that is a little silly of you to blame him for that?

You know you can just admit that you have no answer for the question. It's okay to admit that you can't understand how the God you choose to worship could choose to be so cruel.

 

[ding]

I see. So do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

Sorry, Sealybobo. dingdong seems to think that anyone who is not completely enamoured with magical thinking must be authoritarian, and want to pass laws to criminalise religion.

You don't think he could answer that question on his own? Or is it that you believe I am so dangerous that he needed cliff notes. Either way, that ain't good.

Oh, I'm sorry. You were bragging earlier that 6 against one was unfair, and we were all outgunned. What? You suddenly can't handle just two?

lol, no, jump in and answer the questions for him. I don't mind. You don't have much of a sense of humor. I though fat people were supposed to be jolly.

Do you believe that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed?

 

[Czernobog]

So then you are happy enough to assign the bad things which occurred in Western Civilization to Christians but not the good things. Are you sure you believe you are being objective?

Tell you what, when you can address each of my points, indicating that you actually read my post, just as I did, then you might have something of value to say.

I'll wait...

While you are gathering your thoughts on what went into your equation of good or positive influences of religion, maybe you could answer a question for me.

Do you believe that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed?

Nope. I will not answer any further biased questions from you. You clearly do not wish to have an honest discussion. You just want to be praised for your cleverness. I will not help you do that.

Does ding acknowledge any of the points we make?

Is ding trying to convince us or ding?

This is seriously a person who's questioning if there is a creator. Come on ding. Make the leap. You can do it!

Remember, even if there is a "creator" it doesn't care and never visits

You haven't made any points because you have no evidence that God does not exist.

I wondered when that was coming. Prove that the God for which there is no evidence doesn't exist. I guess you really have reach the end of your cleverness, haven't you?

 

[ding]

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

Well... since you don't believe in God, don't you think that is a little silly of you to blame him for that?

You know you can just admit that you have no answer for the question. It's okay to admit that you can't understand how the God you choose to worship could choose to be so cruel.

Oh, you want me to defend why God allows bad things to happen to good people? Sure, just as soon as you finish out our discussion on your lack of objectivity and your being a militant atheist. Fair enough?

 

[ding]

Tell you what, when you can address each of my points, indicating that you actually read my post, just as I did, then you might have something of value to say.

I'll wait...

While you are gathering your thoughts on what went into your equation of good or positive influences of religion, maybe you could answer a question for me.

Do you believe that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed?

Nope. I will not answer any further biased questions from you. You clearly do not wish to have an honest discussion. You just want to be praised for your cleverness. I will not help you do that.

Does ding acknowledge any of the points we make?

Is ding trying to convince us or ding?

This is seriously a person who's questioning if there is a creator. Come on ding. Make the leap. You can do it!

Remember, even if there is a "creator" it doesn't care and never visits

You haven't made any points because you have no evidence that God does not exist.

I wondered when that was coming. Prove that the God for which there is no evidence doesn't exist. I guess you really have reach the end of your cleverness, haven't you?

No. It is the obvious answer to his question, dumbass.

 

[Czernobog]

Good question not easily answered. In America it's a toss up but in the middle East ID say the negatives outweigh the positives.

During the crusades?

When we first came up with religion the pros far outweighed the cons. Just the peace of mind your loveone who was just eaten by a wooly mammoth is in heaven. But it also is holding us back mentally. One can't fully embrace science and logic while also engaging in magical thinking

I see... so if it were up to you would you abolish religion?

Sorry, Sealybobo. dingdong seems to think that anyone who is not completely enamoured with magical thinking must be authoritarian, and want to pass laws to criminalise religion.

You don't think he could answer that question on his own? Or is it that you believe I am so dangerous that he needed cliff notes. Either way, that ain't good.

Oh, I'm sorry. You were bragging earlier that 6 against one was unfair, and we were all outgunned. What? You suddenly can't handle just two?

lol, no, jump in and answer the questions for him. I don't mind. You don't have much of a sense of humor. I though fat people were supposed to be jolly.

Do you believe that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed?

Oh, the latter, clearly. Which is why legislation is unnecessary. Actually, I would go so far as to say it is counterproductive. After all, when you expose behaviour for the stupidity that it is, rational people lose interest. When you try to criminalise it, it becomes a taboo to push the limits. This is why criminalising prostitution never did a thing to prevent it. Or drugs. Or gambling. Or any other stupid personal behaviour that moralists keep trying to criminalise.

 

[Czernobog]

No but if I were a God and I cared they wouldn't get cancer. And if I stood around and did nothing I don't really care

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

Well... since you don't believe in God, don't you think that is a little silly of you to blame him for that?

You know you can just admit that you have no answer for the question. It's okay to admit that you can't understand how the God you choose to worship could choose to be so cruel.

Oh, you want me to defend why God allows bad things to happen to good people? Sure, just as soon as you finish out our discussion on your lack of objectivity and your being a militant atheist. Fair enough?

I thought we had. Your bias has led you to conclude that I am the one who lacks objectivity, and I am perfectly happy allowing you your delusion. Moving on...

 

[ding]

Reason and experience tell us that there is evidence for a Creator.

Yes it it easy to ponder how we got here and come to the conclusion that something greater than us put us here but every piece of evidence for this creator are stories made up. Some on purpose (cults) and some people truly believe they had an experience.

There may be a creator and if he does care you better be good for goodness sake.

Do I think belief would matter to this creator? No. That religion bs.

I think it's important people be open to the possibility there might not be a God. Otherwise that person talks about God as if it's a fact when it is not.

God can't even qualify as a theory. At least not a scientific one. So while reason and experience might tell you one thing evidence says another

Ok, so if there were a creator why don't you believe he cares?

Cancer, Alzheimer's

So, you believe everything would have to be perfect for their to be a creator? Let me ask you this. Do you have kids? Are you always perfect in everything you do with them? Does the fact that everything isn't always perfect somehow mean you love them less?

So...this "creator" is as flawed as we are? Why would anyone want to worship a flawed being? In that case, I might as well worship my cousin Brent. All hail Brent!

Probably because you are already worshiping yourself.

 

[ding]

Dying is part of living. We are all going to die eventually.

Sure it is, but inflicting innocent people, including children, with debilitating, excruciating disease, hunger, or other afflictions that have nothing to do with growing old, and dying comfortably in old age seems a bit...unnecessary, don't ya think?

Well... since you don't believe in God, don't you think that is a little silly of you to blame him for that?

You know you can just admit that you have no answer for the question. It's okay to admit that you can't understand how the God you choose to worship could choose to be so cruel.

Oh, you want me to defend why God allows bad things to happen to good people? Sure, just as soon as you finish out our discussion on your lack of objectivity and your being a militant atheist. Fair enough?

I thought we had. Your bias has led you to conclude that I am the one who lacks objectivity, and I am perfectly happy allowing you your delusion. Moving on...

No we did not conclude that and I don't think that was your reason for moving on either.