Reason to own guns....when your government kills it's citizens...Mexico...

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wrong.

Can you explain how gun ownership is going to protect you from our government? Hell, how about our militarized police force?

Thats not the point.

I hear it from RWers all the time....how we need guns to protect us from an oppressive government.

How so?

You know nothing of history or our Constitution.
I suggest you educate yourself then get back with me.

I don't blame you for not going into details of how that would work out for you.

History is rife with the reasons.
Not my problem you're a moron.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wrong.

Can you explain how gun ownership is going to protect you from our government? Hell, how about our militarized police force?

Thats not the point.

I hear it from RWers all the time....how we need guns to protect us from an oppressive government.

How so?

You know nothing of history or our Constitution.
I suggest you educate yourself then get back with me.

And you know nothing about how our government and Constitution work.

The Second Amendment does not 'authorize' a minority of citizens to 'unilaterally' decide to 'take up arms' against the Federal government based on a subjective, errant, and unwarranted perception that the government has become 'tyrannical.'

Again you're wrong.
Does the number 3% mean anything to you?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Wrong.

Can you explain how gun ownership is going to protect you from our government? Hell, how about our militarized police force?

Thats not the point.

I hear it from RWers all the time....how we need guns to protect us from an oppressive government.

How so?

You know nothing of history or our Constitution.
I suggest you educate yourself then get back with me.

And you know nothing about how our government and Constitution work.

The Second Amendment does not 'authorize' a minority of citizens to 'unilaterally' decide to 'take up arms' against the Federal government based on a subjective, errant, and unwarranted perception that the government has become 'tyrannical.'

Well I guess Sharron Angle was full of shit.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Can you explain how gun ownership is going to protect you from our government? Hell, how about our militarized police force?

Thats not the point.

I hear it from RWers all the time....how we need guns to protect us from an oppressive government.

How so?

You know nothing of history or our Constitution.
I suggest you educate yourself then get back with me.

I don't blame you for not going into details of how that would work out for you.

History is rife with the reasons.
Not my problem you're a moron.

What, no explanation of your 2nd Amendment remedies?

LOL!

 

[waltky]

Pena Nieto waning in popularity...

Thousands March in Mexico City to Protest Pena Nieto Presidency
December 01, 2014 ~ Thousands of people marched in Mexico City today to protest against President Enrique Pena Nieto as polls showed the Mexican leader at his lowest approval level on the second anniversary of his inauguration.

Demonstrators marched from the capital’s central square, or Zocalo, to the Angel of Independence monument on the Paseo de la Reforma boulevard. Some called for the resignation of the 48-year-old leader, whose popularity has fallen after an apparent mass murder of college students, sluggish economic growth and a scandal involving his wife’s ties to a government contractor. “The reason we’re here is the outrage we feel as a people about the students,” said Juan Enrique Montoya a 39-year-old theater technician taking part in the protest. “This government is terrible. They passed all these reforms, but there hasn’t been any improvement.”
Story: Mexico Needs More Good Cops

The disappearance of the 43 students, allegedly kidnapped by police and killed by their allies in a drug gang in a southern town, has become a symbol for how drug-related violence has undermined the state’s grip on law and order. It has distracted attention from the administration’s moves to bolster the economy through increased competition and private investment in the state-controlled oil industry. Mexico’s government cut its forecast for 2014 economic growth to as little as 2.1 percent last month after a report showed the nation’s expansion missed analysts’ estimates for the eighth time in 10 quarters, held back by weak domestic demand.

Drug War

Mexico has also been racked by a drug war that’s left more than 70,000 dead since 2006, according to newspaper Milenio. Another 22,000 have gone missing, the Attorney General’s Office says. Mexico has seen weeks of demonstrations that brought hundreds of thousands onto the streets demanding justice and improved security. A survey released today by newspaper Reforma showed 39 percent of participants approved of Pena Nieto’s performance, the least for any president since the mid-1990s and down 11 percentage points from August. A separate poll by El Universal showed his approval rating at 41 percent, down from 46 percent in August.

Pena Nieto has also faced public criticism amid revelations that his wife, Angelica Rivera, agreed in 2012 to buy a home held in the name of a contractor that this year won part of a $4.3 billion Mexican high-speed rail contract. Pena Nieto’s administration canceled that award on Nov. 6, three days before the report was published by Aristegui Noticias. Rivera, a former soap opera star, said last month that she plans to sell rights to the house because critics had used it as a pretext to defame her family.

‘Get Out’

“In the latest few weeks and months we’ve seen a deterioration in the political environment,” said Ociel Hernandez, a strategist at Grupo Financiero BBVA Bancomer SA in Mexico City. Pena Nieto last week proposed sweeping changes to Mexico’s security strategy. They include replacing local police with unified state forces and boosting economic opportunity in southern states, among the nation’s poorest. Central bank Governor Agustin Carstens has also said violence is holding back growth. Mexico’s peso is the third-worst performer against the dollar in the past month among major currencies tracked by Bloomberg, losing 3.7 percent.

At today’s demonstration, Clemente Rodriguez, the father of missing student Christian Rodríguez, held a sign asking “Christian, where are you?” He said Pena Nieto should resign and led the crowd in chants of “Get out Pena.” “If my son Christian is hearing us, if the 43 students are listening, we’re looking for you,” he said. “We’re going to find the 43 students tomorrow or the day after. We’re waiting for you at home.”

Thousands March in Mexico City to Protest Pena Nieto Presidency - Businessweek

See also:

Mexican president's polls fall to near-record lows
Dec 1,`14 -- New polls published Monday show approval ratings for Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto falling to some of the lowest levels in recent memory.

Just nine months after Pena Nieto appeared on the cover of Time magazine with the headline "Saving Mexico," scandals and crises have pushed his approval rating down to around 40 percent. It's one of the lowest levels for a Mexican president since Ernesto Zedillo presided over the 1994-1995 economic crisis. A Buendia & Laredo poll for the El Universal newspaper showed Pena Nieto's approval rating falling from 46 percent in August to 41 percent in November, with a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points. A poll by the Reforma newspaper showed approval dropping from 50 percent in August to 39 percent in late November. It had a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points.

Francisco Abundis, director of the Parametria polling firm, said his company's figures showed Pena Nieto with a similar approval rating of 44 percent, and noted that was low for a Mexican president. "It's very difficult for them (Mexican presidents) to fall below 55 or 60 percent." But he also said that Pena Nieto has never achieved high ratings in Mexico, despite enthusiasm abroad for his market-oriented reforms. "What we have is a president who is stuck in the high to low 40s ... but there is no tendency," Abundis said.

Political consultant Ruben Aguilar, who served as spokesman for former president Vicente Fox, said the disappearance in September of 43 students in the southern state of Guerrero played a partial role in the president's low approval ratings. The students were detained by local police in the Guerrero city of Iguala, who apparently turned them over to a drug gang that reportedly killed them and incinerated their bodies. Aguilar also said the execution by soldiers of about 15 suspects at a warehouse in southern Mexico on June 30 played a role. "Not only were these events extremely regrettable, but the government was also slow to react," said Aguilar. The governmental National Human Rights Commission said Monday that "violence, illegality and impunity are putting the country's stability and peaceful coexistence at risk, as never before."

That contrasts with the administration's ability to strike back-room deals to get reforms through Congress. Pena Nieto has opened the country's state-owned oil sector to private investment, tightened telecom regulation and passed a reform of the country's notoriously bad public school system. But when events like mass disappearances or executions occur, the government - which had long downplayed violence - was caught flat-footed. "This appears to be an administration with a lot of skill ... for things that are in their game plan, but an administration that reacts badly and slowly to unexpected events that aren't in its plans," Aguilar said. In a way, it's not surprising that Pena Nieto isn't lower; he was elected with only 38.15 percent of the vote in a three-way race. Mexico has no runoff elections. And for many other major leaders, like U.S. President Barack Obama, approval ratings in the low 40s have become the norm. Abundis said Mexicans generally appear to try not to be negative in answering pollsters' questions: "It's for unusual for a Mexican to give a flunking grade to an authority figure."

News from The Associated Press

 

[waltky]

Smells like a cover-up...

Experts dismiss Mexico's account of apparent student massacre
Mon Sep 7, 2015 | Mexico's official account of the abduction and apparent massacre of 43 students last year does not add up, a team of international experts said on Sunday, citing deep flaws in the government's investigation and dismissing its claims that the victims were incinerated in a garbage dump.

The case provoked a global outcry after the missing students were abducted in the city of Iguala in southwest Mexico on Sept. 26, 2014. The government's failure to capture the killers or even persuade Mexicans that its investigation was serious has hit President Enrique Peña Nieto's reputation, and the report on Sunday was certain to pile more pressure on. Commissioned by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) and conducted by respected investigators from Chile, Colombia, Guatemala and Spain, the report blasts holes in the Mexican government's central claim that the students were burned to ashes in the nearby town of Cocula. "That event never took place," one of the investigators, Carlos Beristain, told reporters on Sunday, citing evidence from the site. "There should be a refocusing of the investigation based on these facts."

The parents of the victims cheered the report, and vowed not to let up on the government until their children are found, adding their faith is with the independent experts and they no longer trusted official investigators. "We've had enough of the government's crap," Mario Cesar Gonzalez, the father of one of the missing students, said at a press conference. "We're poor, but we're not stupid." Mexico Attorney General Arely Gomez said she would seek a new probe to ascertain whether the missing students were in fact burned in the dump, adding that the government will extend the stay of the independent experts so they can keep investigating. On Twitter, Peña Nieto thanked the IACHR for its report, and said the government would analyze the findings and incorporate them into its investigation.

(LtoR) Francisco Cox, Claudia Paz, Carlos Beristain, Angela Buitrago and Alejandro Valencia of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission (CIDH) address the media and family members of the 43 missing students from the Ayotzinapa teachers' training college, in Mexico City.

"DAMNING INDICTMENT"

"This report provides an utterly damning indictment of Mexico's handling of the worst human rights atrocity in recent memory," said Jose Miguel Vivanco, Americas Director at Human Rights Watch. "Even with the world watching and with substantial resources at hand, the authorities proved unable or unwilling to conduct a serious investigation." So far, only one of the missing students has been identified from the badly charred remains found at the dump. Peña Nieto's government says the students were abducted by corrupt local police, working in league with a local drug gang, who confused the students with members of a rival cartel. Citing confessions of the alleged perpetrators, it says the police then handed them over to members of the local cartel, known as "Guerreros Unidos," or "United Warriors," who took them to the local dump and incinerated them. But a Reuters report published this week showed the government probe was plagued by a litany of errors, and that key parts may need to be redone. [ID:nL1N11A1C0]

The IACHR experts were unable to determine what happened to the students, saying that much is still unknown, but they did suggest avenues for closer investigation. For example, they flagged the fact that missing evidence includes a bus seen on security camera footage from the night of the attack. The students commandeered several buses that night and local police opened fire on them. In their report, the experts suggested the missing bus may have been carrying a shipment of cash or drugs, citing the fact that prosecutors in Chicago found that the Guerreros Unidos cartel transports heroin from Iguala to the United States in secret bus compartments. The issue should be investigated and may be the motive for the attack, the experts said. In recent months, they have conducted dozens of interviews with detainees and witnesses, and examined the possible role of an army battalion located only a few blocks from where most of the students are believed to have been abducted. The team was denied interviews, however, with 26 soldiers who had contact with the students that night.

Experts dismiss Mexico's account of apparent student massacre

 

[waltky]

A case of mistaken identity?...

A Mexican Gang Member Has Been Arrested in Connection With the Missing Students Case
Authorities are investigating whether the students' deaths are a case of mistaken identity

A leading suspect in the case of 43 missing Mexican students was arrested Wednesday in the city of Taxco, authorities say. Gildardo “El Gil” López Astudillo, a senior member of the Guerreros Unidos gang in the Iguala region, was detained in connection with the Sept. 26, 2014, disappearance of students from the Ayotzinapa teacher-training college, who were en route to a protest when the school buses they had commissioned came under attack from local police. Authorities say the students were likely then handed over to the Guerreros Unidos and killed. Astudillo allegedly told the gang’s leader, arrested in October of last year, that the students were members of a rival gang called Los Rojos, or the Reds, reports Mexico News Daily, a Mexican English-language news site.

The case has become the subject of a high-profile mass-murder investigation and sparked nationwide protests over the past year. Authorities are now investigating whether the students’ deaths were caused by mistaken identity in the fight of territory between the two gangs, the Daily reports. The arrest comes as Mexican authorities say they have identified the remains of one missing student, Jhosivani Guerrero de la Cruz, in the garbage dump where the remains of another student was found in December

However, there has been disagreement about the garbage-dump connection. Earlier this month, an interdisciplinary group called the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights published a report stating that it was “scientifically impossible” for the students to have been burned at the Cocula trash dump. The report also said that one of the school buses may have had a stash of heroin on board that was headed for the U.S.

Mexican Gang Member Arrested in the Missing-Students Case

See also:

Mexico is outraged over citizens killed in Egypt but ignores the dead at home
Friday 18 September 2015 | The Mexican government has stood by as the country has seen more than 164,000 civilian deaths, 20,000 people go missing and over 70 journalists and media workers killed on its own turf since the drug war’s inception in 2006. But none of those deaths and disappearances made the protection of Mexican citizens a priority for the president. Apparently, it took the deaths of Mexican tourists in the Wahat region of Egypt’s western desert to do that.

President Peña-Nieto has the gumption to ask the Egyptian government this week “to perform an exhaustive investigation” looking into the reasons why Egyptian forces air raided and killed twelve tourists, eight of which were Mexican nationals, after allegedly mistaking them for terrorists. While an investigation is certainly called for, there’s a certain irony in Mexico acting concerned about the death of its citizens abroad as it is not doing enough to investigate municipal officials and police who are accused of actively facilitating the death of its own citizens and covering up these deaths.

The killings in Egypt come at a time when the president is managing the fallout of his own sham investigation surrounding the murders of 43 rural students in Iguala last year. This is on top of the still pending investigations concerning last year’s Tlatlaya massacre as well as the recent killings of journalists Nadia Vera and Rubén Espinosa in Mexico City’s Narvarte neighborhood this year. President Peña-Nieto and his colleagues in the Senate have expressed outrage, both on Twitter and in the media, at the events that occurred in Egypt. Mexico’s foreign minister, Claudia Ruiz Massiu, flew to Cairo on Tuesday to seek answers from the Egyptian government, saying before her departure: “We face a terrible loss of human lives and an unjustified attack that obligates us to make the protection of our citizens the priority.” But why are some Mexican lives a priority for the Mexican government to protect and not others?

Just last week, an independent report from a group created by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights revealed that the Mexican government’s investigation into the deaths of the 43 students from Ayotzinapa’s rural school was full of contradictions. Details from the independent investigation discredit nearly every major conclusion of the official Mexican investigation and indict municipal, state, federal and military agencies in the coordinated murders and subsequent coverup of the Ayotzinapa students. Yet still, despite scientific evidence that goes against the official Mexican report, Mexico’s Attorney General still insist on the veracity of the investigation.

Both the attorney general investigation and the independent investigation Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, however, agree on one fact: the mayor of Iguala, his wife, Maria de los Angeles Pineda, as well as the town’s police chief, Felipe Flores, collaborated with the Guerreros Unidos cartel to kill these students. These facts have been widely publicized. So have the facts surrounding the Mexican military’s role in the massacre of 22 civilians in Tlatlaya. And, most recently, Javier Duarte, the governor of Veracruz, has come under fire after the deaths of Nadia Vera and Rubén Espinosa, who were notorious critics of his rule. Before her death, Vera had said she holds the state totally responsible for her security, adding “they are the ones who send people to repress us,”

While the Mexican government likes to portray itself internationally as the victim of unruly drug gangs and corrupt local officials, these investigations raise serious questions about the complicity of the federal government in the crimes committed against its citizens. What do you make of a government that is accused of not doing enough to investigate the killings of Mexico’s young people, writers, journalists and yet demands answers from an Egyptian government that – despite a revolution – is still keeping it together, however precariously. If you’re Egypt, you can only laugh.

Mexico is outraged over citizens killed in Egypt but ignores the dead at home | Daniel Peña

 

[waltky]

Parents protest lack of info on 43 missing students...

Parents of missing Mexico students protest
Fri, Sep 25, 2015 - TRUTH: Parents of 43 missing Mexican teaching students are still waiting for answers one year since they were allegedly attacked by local police and then disappeared

Parents of 43 Mexican students who disappeared last year began a 43-hour hunger strike on Wednesday, a day before meeting with Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto ahead of the case’s anniversary. The families of the young men gathered under a white tarp in front of Mexico City’s cathedral at Zocalo square and declared the start of their protest at 7pm. Holding signs with the pictures and names of their sons, they sat as a doctor examined them to make sure they could take part in the nearly two-day fast.

They are to spend the night there under tents. “For 43 hours, we will only drink water and we’ll be fasting when we meet with the president,” said Nardo Flores, whose son Bernardo is among the missing. It will be the second meeting between the parents and Pena Nieto since the disappearance last year, which turned into the biggest crisis of his administration and caused his approval rating to dip. The Mexican leader and the families were to come face-to-face at 1pm yesterday in a museum at the city’s Chapultepec park. The parents’ attorney Vidulfo Rosales said they would call on Pena Nieto to order a new investigation and for authorities to present the 43 young men alive.

Relatives hold pictures of some of the 43 missing students of Ayotzinapa Raul Isidro Burgos College as they start a 43-hour hunger strike ahead of the first anniversary of the disappearance, at Zocalo Square, Mexico City on Wednesday.

Mexican Deputy Interior Minister Roberto Campa said the meeting between the parents and Pena Nieto would be “complicated,” as it involves the sensitive issue of Mexico’s thousands of disappeared. “I’m confident that we will have a productive meeting, which will produce agreements to obtain the two main objectives, which are getting to the truth and getting justice,” Campa said. The students, from a rural teacher college in the southern state of Guerrero, disappeared after they were attacked by local police in the city of Iguala. Prosecutors say police then delivered the young men — who had gone to Iguala to hijack buses to travel to a protest elsewhere — to the Guerreros Unidos drug gang, which killed them and incinerated their bodies.

However, the official investigation was questioned by independent experts from the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, who said there was no evidence that the students were burned in a funeral pyre at a garbage dump. Only one student has been positively identified among charred remains while the attorney general said last week that there was a possible match for a second student. The parents and other students from their teacher college are to lead a protest in Mexico City tomorrow to mark the one-year anniversary of the mass disappearance.

Parents of missing Mexico students protest - Taipei Times

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Yes, reason 4) of why people need to own and carry guns....when the government decides to kill a certain population of its citizens...see Mexico and the entire 20th century, in particular, Socialist states....

From Mexico...

Life And Death In A Gun Control Country Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Borderland Beat has an interesting report on the arrest of the former mayor of Iguala and his wife, suspects suspects in the murder of 42 teachers college students in the city of Iguala. (Link Fixed S)

Essentially, 42 young people left a two years teachers college to wave a cup and ask for money in Iguala. According to report, the mayors wife was to make a speech and was afraid the young people might detract from her star turn.

So the mayor reportedly told the Iguala police to round them up, kill them, and bury their bodies somewhere. Somewhere that has not been located, although dozens of clandestine graves have been opened.

Being armed has never helped anyone when the government came for them. Not the Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, or anyone else. They have better and more guns than you ever could.

 

[2aguy]

Yes, reason 4) of why people need to own and carry guns....when the government decides to kill a certain population of its citizens...see Mexico and the entire 20th century, in particular, Socialist states....

From Mexico...

Life And Death In A Gun Control Country Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Borderland Beat has an interesting report on the arrest of the former mayor of Iguala and his wife, suspects suspects in the murder of 42 teachers college students in the city of Iguala. (Link Fixed S)

Essentially, 42 young people left a two years teachers college to wave a cup and ask for money in Iguala. According to report, the mayors wife was to make a speech and was afraid the young people might detract from her star turn.

So the mayor reportedly told the Iguala police to round them up, kill them, and bury their bodies somewhere. Somewhere that has not been located, although dozens of clandestine graves have been opened.

Being armed has never helped anyone when the government came for them. Not the Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, or anyone else. They have better and more guns than you ever could.

Wow....you better not tell the American colonists........ooops...too late.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes, reason 4) of why people need to own and carry guns....when the government decides to kill a certain population of its citizens...see Mexico and the entire 20th century, in particular, Socialist states....

From Mexico...

Life And Death In A Gun Control Country Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Borderland Beat has an interesting report on the arrest of the former mayor of Iguala and his wife, suspects suspects in the murder of 42 teachers college students in the city of Iguala. (Link Fixed S)

Essentially, 42 young people left a two years teachers college to wave a cup and ask for money in Iguala. According to report, the mayors wife was to make a speech and was afraid the young people might detract from her star turn.

So the mayor reportedly told the Iguala police to round them up, kill them, and bury their bodies somewhere. Somewhere that has not been located, although dozens of clandestine graves have been opened.

Being armed has never helped anyone when the government came for them. Not the Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, or anyone else. They have better and more guns than you ever could.

yeah....armed Swiss kept the Germans from invading.....the other countries in Europe...all disarmed, invaded and their Jewish citizens shipped off to death camps.....

 

[longknife]

Parts of Mexico have turned into the Wild West. Where the government has failed to provide police protection, vigilante groups are rounding up criminals and lynching them.

And Mexico supposedly has some very serious and stringent gun laws.