“Redistribute the wealth”

[Skull Pilot]

We do want them to get more, just not more of our money.

Question: how do we ever teach irresponsible people to be responsible if no matter what they do, we give them a way out?

Have kids you can't afford, we will feed them, give them medical care, and even baby sit for them if you have a job.

Dropped out of school or didn't pay attention; on dope? Have government subsidize your low pay.

Don't feel much like working. Go on our social programs.

Is it any wonder why there are poor people when we keep rewarding them to be poor?

Living on benefits is no life. Benefits/welfare is a corporate handout. But the majority of people having benefits are in work.. Here is the thing. If you cant feed yourself and put a roof over your head wen you are working full time then there is something wrong in society.
Its not the individual it is the job. Because even if the individual moves on the job remains.
Corporations can only pay shit wages because the tax payer is on hand to bail them out. That cant be right.

So it boils down to a very simple proposition.

We pay people a living wage as a minimum. Profits would have to come down a bit and we may have to pay a bit more for stuff.

Or we see people take starvation wages that are subsidised by the taxpayer at the request of the corporate donors.

At the moment its just a racket and our society is crumbling because of it.

You forgot option number three: if you can’t make ends meet, work more hours. If you can’t do that, find a part time job as well as your full time job. We did it all the time when we were younger. Nobody needed government. At one point I worked thee jobs. I worked 45 hours a week at my job, several hours at night at another job, and I had a weekend job.




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

Since when is business supposed to benefit society?

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

The government set the conditions under which the businesses decided to cap hours. The government tried to force the businesses to pay extra benefits and screwed the workers as a result. To answer your question, the government didn't do a damn thing to benefit society in that scenario, so what else would you like the government to screw up?

No you are very wrong.
The tax is called national insurance.It is paid by employee and employer and kicks in at about £50. Its not a huge amount and pays for healthcare and pensions and so on.It has been around since the 40s.

But now the employer sets the hours of an employee to stop a penny below the threshold.It means that they save money but the knock on from this is that the employee is not contributing to their state pension. Many people will retire on a reduced income.
The villain here are the corporations who want all the benefits of infrastructure,healthy and educated workers but dont want to contribute to the cost. It needs to change.

 

[danielpalos]

Why do we have any poverty, at all?

In the US we really don't have any poverty compared to the majority of the planet

You like most whining entitled Americans have never seen nor experienced real poverty

A simple poverty of money in any first world capital based economy, is real poverty.

Get a job, save some money and travel to Central and South America or Africa then come back and tell me what real poverty is

We have a First World economy. Only the right wing, never gets it.

And we have no real poverty

Only you don't get that

Yes, I do. I don't resort to fallacies as much as the right wing. A simple poverty of money, really is primitive in a First World economy.

 

[danielpalos]

Living on benefits is no life. Benefits/welfare is a corporate handout. But the majority of people having benefits are in work.. Here is the thing. If you cant feed yourself and put a roof over your head wen you are working full time then there is something wrong in society.
Its not the individual it is the job. Because even if the individual moves on the job remains.
Corporations can only pay shit wages because the tax payer is on hand to bail them out. That cant be right.

So it boils down to a very simple proposition.

We pay people a living wage as a minimum. Profits would have to come down a bit and we may have to pay a bit more for stuff.

Or we see people take starvation wages that are subsidised by the taxpayer at the request of the corporate donors.

At the moment its just a racket and our society is crumbling because of it.

You forgot option number three: if you can’t make ends meet, work more hours. If you can’t do that, find a part time job as well as your full time job. We did it all the time when we were younger. Nobody needed government. At one point I worked thee jobs. I worked 45 hours a week at my job, several hours at night at another job, and I had a weekend job.




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

Since when is business supposed to benefit society?

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right winger, to support Your right wing fantasy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

The government set the conditions under which the businesses decided to cap hours. The government tried to force the businesses to pay extra benefits and screwed the workers as a result. To answer your question, the government didn't do a damn thing to benefit society in that scenario, so what else would you like the government to screw up?

No you are very wrong.
The tax is called national insurance.It is paid by employee and employer and kicks in at about £50. Its not a huge amount and pays for healthcare and pensions and so on.It has been around since the 40s.

But now the employer sets the hours of an employee to stop a penny below the threshold.It means that they save money but the knock on from this is that the employee is not contributing to their state pension. Many people will retire on a reduced income.
The villain here are the corporations who want all the benefits of infrastructure,healthy and educated workers but dont want to contribute to the cost. It needs to change.

None of which means Jack Shit to us in the USA

Our FICA contributions start at dollar one

 

[Skull Pilot]

You forgot option number three: if you can’t make ends meet, work more hours. If you can’t do that, find a part time job as well as your full time job. We did it all the time when we were younger. Nobody needed government. At one point I worked thee jobs. I worked 45 hours a week at my job, several hours at night at another job, and I had a weekend job.




Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

Since when is business supposed to benefit society?

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

The government set the conditions under which the businesses decided to cap hours. The government tried to force the businesses to pay extra benefits and screwed the workers as a result. To answer your question, the government didn't do a damn thing to benefit society in that scenario, so what else would you like the government to screw up?

No you are very wrong.
The tax is called national insurance.It is paid by employee and employer and kicks in at about £50. Its not a huge amount and pays for healthcare and pensions and so on.It has been around since the 40s.

But now the employer sets the hours of an employee to stop a penny below the threshold.It means that they save money but the knock on from this is that the employee is not contributing to their state pension. Many people will retire on a reduced income.
The villain here are the corporations who want all the benefits of infrastructure,healthy and educated workers but dont want to contribute to the cost. It needs to change.

None of which means Jack Shit to us in the USA

Our FICA contributions start at dollar one

Maybe ours should.

 

[danielpalos]

Most people who are on the breadline do have more than one job. In the UK the abusive employers cap hours just below the level where they have to pay benefits to staff. We also have the US invention of zero hours contracts where people dont know what hours they will get week to week. How does that benefit society ?
Its a race to the bottom and society will pick up the tab at some point.

Since when is business supposed to benefit society?

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

 

[Hiryuu]

No you are very wrong.
The tax is called national insurance.It is paid by employee and employer and kicks in at about £50. Its not a huge amount and pays for healthcare and pensions and so on.It has been around since the 40s.

But now the employer sets the hours of an employee to stop a penny below the threshold.It means that they save money but the knock on from this is that the employee is not contributing to their state pension. Many people will retire on a reduced income.
The villain here are the corporations who want all the benefits of infrastructure,healthy and educated workers but dont want to contribute to the cost. It needs to change.

No, you either misunderstood what I posted or you are not addressing the point. The government set the threshold the businesses then use to set the cap on hours/pay. I'm not arguing that you cannot get all bent out of shape because it didn't work like you wanted it to. It's just that the government cannot save the worker, and the worker has to make themselves more valuable to the business if they ever want to get paid anything better.

You can call business the villain all the time, but the business is who pays the worker, the business is who produces products/services, not the government. Try and screw the business and see if you don't get screwed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Since when is business supposed to benefit society?

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

 

[Hiryuu]

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

If we wanted to stop government from using virtue signaling against business, we should put it back in the hands of the People.

We could take 50 jugs of the same milk, and mark half of them at $3 and the other half at $5. Then we could put a sticker on the $5 jugs that says the extra $2 you pay for this jug of milk goes towards feeding the poor, paying professors, government pensions, and free college for everyone. Then we could sit back and watch which stack of jugs sells out first.

I do know that when the stores around here offer tax free sales on school supplies (a weekend near the beginning of the school year), the shelves are bare by the end of the day and the stores do record business. (edit) I am not saying the parents think the poor should starve, but when they are offered the same opportunity businesses have to decide who gets to keep the money, they don't have a problem keeping their money.

 

[danielpalos]

We have a social contract not a capital contract for a Constitution.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

 

[Hiryuu]

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

Chaos, freedom, I can see where you could make that association. When people are free they tend to do what they want (and suffer the consequences of their failures), instead of what someone else wants them to do. But then society wants a safety net. that really isn't a safety net. Safety nets catch something that is falling, trawler nets scoop up what is on the bottom, and confine what they capture.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No we don't

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

 

[danielpalos]

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

Chaos, freedom, I can see where you could make that association. When people are free they tend to do what they want (and suffer the consequences of their failures), instead of what someone else wants them to do. But then society wants a safety net. that really isn't a safety net. Safety nets catch something that is falling, trawler nets scoop up what is on the bottom, and confine what they capture.

we really just need a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, unemployment compensation for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, and Industrial Automation to help with social costs.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, we do. You, only have inferior reasoning, right wing, to support Your right wing fantasy.

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

Our Constitutions claim otherwise and They are the supreme law of the land.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have no obligation to do anything for society neither do you

If I have no obligation there is no contract

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

Our Constitutions claim otherwise and They are the supreme law of the land.

Where in the Constitution does it say that any person is obligated to do anything for "society"?

In fact a large and very important part of our constitution is protection from governemnt overreach and protects the individual

 

[danielpalos]

The law is the law. We don' have capital laws, they are social laws.

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

Our Constitutions claim otherwise and They are the supreme law of the land.

Where in the Constitution does it say that any person is obligated to do anything for "society"?

In fact the a large and very important part of our constitution is protection from governemnt overreach and protects the individual

Congress has the power to Tax persons to fix problems in our society.

The militia is also, callable by Congress to fix any problems for our society.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Still no contract

I do not have to obey any law if I choose not to.

Neither do you

Laws are nothing but a list of behaviors that you can follow or not.

There is no obligation I have to "society"

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

Our Constitutions claim otherwise and They are the supreme law of the land.

Where in the Constitution does it say that any person is obligated to do anything for "society"?

In fact the a large and very important part of our constitution is protection from governemnt overreach and protects the individual

Congress has the power to Tax persons to fix problems in our society.

The militia is also, callable by Congress to fix any problems for our society.

So what?

An individual has absolutely no obligation to do anything for the benefit of "society"

 

[danielpalos]

only in your vacuum of special pleading.

Socialism is about the Order of society not the Chaos of society.

We do not live under socialism and the individual trumps "society"

Our Constitutions claim otherwise and They are the supreme law of the land.

Where in the Constitution does it say that any person is obligated to do anything for "society"?

In fact the a large and very important part of our constitution is protection from governemnt overreach and protects the individual

Congress has the power to Tax persons to fix problems in our society.

The militia is also, callable by Congress to fix any problems for our society.

So what?

An individual has absolutely no obligation to do anything for the benefit of "society"

Ethics claim otherwise.

And, only lousy religionists, talk that way; not enough morals?