Report: no widespread fraud in SC elections

[Seawytch]

No, actually, my objection to the, giggle, objection on the left is that we have technology readily available in many high schools that will assure the person who is registered is casting the ballot.

I laugh at those who says there was fraud in the elections. The same elections that installed strong democratic leadership on the national level gave us more Republican Governors than Democratic governors. The guys on the right can't explain that...or does this fraud only show up for federal elections???

My objection is that we have at our fingertips access to make the precious voting system better and the objection is what exactly...there are people who don't want their picture taken? Really?

If you are in favor of having people register to vote, you should be in favor of making that registration mean something; in my view. Right now, Peter Rabbit can pose as me at a polling place or in some places just walk in and cast a ballot depending on the blood sugar level of the polling official and we chalk it up to "well, it didn't make a difference". Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.

Thanks for the clarification. Again, down with that. The problem with these ID laws is that they're being put into place with little or no planning. Often it's about access. How do you implement an ID law and then close DMV offices? WTF, over? That doesn't seem like you're trying to make it a "more secure process", that seems like you're trying to disenfranchise voters and to keep the poor, minorities and old people from voting. There is also the cost of the required associated paperwork or even a complete lack of the paperwork. (people born at home 80 years ago).

Put these ID laws in place over time with grandfather clauses for grandfathers. When you can identify that less than a VERY small percentage of your population has a photo ID, then implement the law. I will say again, put the onus on the state to get the voter the ID. If it means you spend some cash putting temporary ID card offices in Polling Places on election day, do it.

You know what will REALLY stop actual fraud? The kind that is more common than someone pretending to be someone else at the polls? Statewide databases and electronic pollbooks with updates in real time. Two person integrity when accessing voted ballots and ballot counting computers. (it disturbs me that a registrar can store all her county's votes on a single laptop she can access all by her lonesome) Strict post election reconciliation guidelines. Signature verification software for Vote by Mail ballots. (and the things I mentioned before...Voter Verified Paper Audit Trails (VVPATs), post election manual audits, etc)

As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.

Nobody objects to having their picture taken. As studies and actual experiences of voters has shown is that they don't have access. A poor person in a rural area can't take time off work to gather all the paperwork required for a state issued ID and when they do finally get the time, they're missing a birth certificate...which means another day off from work they can't afford to pay for a document they can't afford.

The 80 year old, born at home by a midwife, who has no birth certificate. Or the 90 year old that doesn't drive and can't get to the DMV to convert her expired license she doesn't need to a state photo ID.

Studies estimate that roughly 10% of the overall population does not have the photo ID that many of these laws require. In some cities, it's as high as 40%. Work on that FIRST.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Failed premise.

we put blinders on and went looking, and oh my. We found nothing.

So said the CEO who investigates his own company for defrauding customers.

I'll say it one more time.

Voter ID harms no one, and targets no one. Why? Because when we all have to play from the same set of rules, we all win.

Make up rules for others, and the fraud and crimes is in the motive for wanting to keep the rules from being fair.

Its like the phoney argument about no convictions for voter fraud. No convictions does NOT mean there was no voter fraud.

But........if you have a tendency against fairness.....all I can say is keep getting those dollars for your research, regardless of how invalid the premise is.

So let me understand. Repubs cry about voter fraud, they investigate voter fraud, finds nothing and you say its because Repubs want to...what? Be victims of voter fraud so they intentionally find nothing? Over and Over?

 

[g5000]

When I get called a "right winger" I know I'm doing something right. I don't cater to one set of beliefs or the other.

If we're going to go through having people register to vote so they can cast a ballot, we should make that registration actually mean something. If you object to making it mean something, you must object to the injury the current system causes right?

As I plainly said, proper management of the existing system is all we need. We do not need Voter ID, which is a solution in search of a problem. Voter ID is a demand for more government bureaucracy, more government intrusion into our rights. It is an expression of a love of Big Brother. It is an obsession with everyone being required to carry identity papers and produce them on demand.

And that is why I call supporters of that crap "faux right wingers".

If you are not a supporter of these things, then you do not fall under that category.

 

[g5000]

Seawytch, nobody cares. And completely irrelevant.

Bullshit. Faux right wingers keep inventing a need for Voter ID, and every case they bring up as evidence which is subsequently disproven as so much bullshit is TOTALLY relevant.

Your attempts to make the truth and facts irrelevant are another example of how hard idiots will clamp their hands over their eyes and ears to avoid seeing the truth.

 

[candycorn]

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.

Thanks for the clarification. Again, down with that. The problem with these ID laws is that they're being put into place with little or no planning. Often it's about access. How do you implement an ID law and then close DMV offices? WTF, over? That doesn't seem like you're trying to make it a "more secure process", that seems like you're trying to disenfranchise voters and to keep the poor, minorities and old people from voting. There is also the cost of the required associated paperwork or even a complete lack of the paperwork. (people born at home 80 years ago).

Well, no.

When we started the lottery the states, you didn't see 5,000 State lottery selling offices start up. When we started checking emmissions on vehicles, you didn't see a bunch of State testing facilities set up. Seven-Elevens were given the choice of selling lottery tickets or not. Garages were given the option of getting a piece of the state inspection game or not.

We simply expand voter registration stations and get them out of just the libraries (although libraries can be inclusive of course if the counties want to purchase photographic equipment), post offices (which already have photographic equipment in many places to make passports), and make it actually easier to register by allowing places that already have such equipment like schools, universities, and any other business that has/wants to invest such equipment to register voters.

Put these ID laws in place over time with grandfather clauses for grandfathers. When you can identify that less than a VERY small percentage of your population has a photo ID, then implement the law. I will say again, put the onus on the state to get the voter the ID. If it means you spend some cash putting temporary ID card offices in Polling Places on election day, do it.

You know what will REALLY stop actual fraud? The kind that is more common than someone pretending to be someone else at the polls? Statewide databases and electronic pollbooks with updates in real time. Two person integrity when accessing voted ballots and ballot counting computers. (it disturbs me that a registrar can store all her county's votes on a single laptop she can access all by her lonesome) Strict post election reconciliation guidelines. Signature verification software for Vote by Mail ballots. (and the things I mentioned before...Voter Verified Paper Audit Trails (VVPATs), post election manual audits, etc)

Some good stuff there...more accountability is always better.

As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.

Nobody objects to having their picture taken. As studies and actual experiences of voters has shown is that they don't have access. A poor person in a rural area can't take time off work to gather all the paperwork required for a state issued ID and when they do finally get the time, they're missing a birth certificate...which means another day off from work they can't afford to pay for a document they can't afford.

The 80 year old, born at home by a midwife, who has no birth certificate. Or the 90 year old that doesn't drive and can't get to the DMV to convert her expired license she doesn't need to a state photo ID.

Studies estimate that roughly 10% of the overall population does not have the photo ID that many of these laws require. In some cities, it's as high as 40%. Work on that FIRST.

I would think that anyone with a current VRC would just be able to swap out theirs for a photo VRC. There will be issues with shut-ins; no doubt Grandfathering it in would be great for grandfathers.

 

[idb]

Failed premise.

we put blinders on and went looking, and oh my. We found nothing.

So said the CEO who investigates his own company for defrauding customers.

I'll say it one more time.

Voter ID harms no one, and targets no one. Why? Because when we all have to play from the same set of rules, we all win.

Make up rules for others, and the fraud and crimes is in the motive for wanting to keep the rules from being fair.

Its like the phoney argument about no convictions for voter fraud. No convictions does NOT mean there was no voter fraud.

But........if you have a tendency against fairness.....all I can say is keep getting those dollars for your research, regardless of how invalid the premise is.

You may not accept the results of the investigation but that still means that there is no proof of any of those 900 being actual fraud...just allegations.
Is that really enough to change the law and establish a whole new layer of bureaucracy and compliance on a constitutional right?

 

[Brain357]

No, actually, my objection to the, giggle, objection on the left is that we have technology readily available in many high schools that will assure the person who is registered is casting the ballot.

I laugh at those who says there was fraud in the elections. The same elections that installed strong democratic leadership on the national level gave us more Republican Governors than Democratic governors. The guys on the right can't explain that...or does this fraud only show up for federal elections???

My objection is that we have at our fingertips access to make the precious voting system better and the objection is what exactly...there are people who don't want their picture taken? Really?

If you are in favor of having people register to vote, you should be in favor of making that registration mean something; in my view. Right now, Peter Rabbit can pose as me at a polling place or in some places just walk in and cast a ballot depending on the blood sugar level of the polling official and we chalk it up to "well, it didn't make a difference". Maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.


As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.

Well, on that front, I'm for the Federal Government buying voting devices and providing them to the counties free of charge just to standardize the system.

Totally down with that....or at LEAST have minimum requirements such as a verifiable paper trail, functional and logic and accuracy testing and then a mandatory post election audit of 1% of the voting precincts at a minimum.

Good ideas too.

I've been thinking about voter registration cards and wonder about how they could be abused. I mean right now any US citizen can just go to the polls and vote. If we had cards that means you can't vote unless you have your card. So could kids just turning 18 in poor neighborhoods mysteriously get their cards late and not be able to vote? Or suppose you lose your card shortly before an election and it doesn't come in time due to being registered with a certain party. Will certain people not get one initially due to an error and have to go through a bunch of government crap just to get one in the first place? Seems like there is a lot of potential for abuse.

 

[candycorn]

What technology at High Schools are you proposing be utilized?

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.


As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.

Totally down with that....or at LEAST have minimum requirements such as a verifiable paper trail, functional and logic and accuracy testing and then a mandatory post election audit of 1% of the voting precincts at a minimum.

Good ideas too.

I've been thinking about voter registration cards and wonder about how they could be abused. I mean right now any US citizen can just go to the polls and vote. If we had cards that means you can't vote unless you have your card. So could kids just turning 18 in poor neighborhoods mysteriously get their cards late and not be able to vote? Or suppose you lose your card shortly before an election and it doesn't come in time due to being registered with a certain party. Will certain people not get one initially due to an error and have to go through a bunch of government crap just to get one in the first place? Seems like there is a lot of potential for abuse.

Any biped can present themselves at a polling place now and vote several times since we dont always verify who they are....citizen or not.

Sam's club gives you a card on the spot. When I was in college back in 1912 we had photo IDs thst allowed us into dorms, science labs, and to pay for our meals in the canteen. As these would have no value outside of voting, they wont generate much interest with criminals.

Certain people...wow. Does there exist a potential for abuse? Yes. As it exists today.

But what technology does for us is this....I live at 123 Main Street youin Phoenix, you live at 456 Elm Street Streetin Glendale, and, Janet lives at 789 Interstate 17 in Paradise Valley. We work together at the same office and at lunch 2 weeks before the election we decide to go vote next door at the post office. We go, stand in line, and present our IDs. The poll worker looks at us, at it, and waves us past. In my booth I swipe my card and a ballot for my voting precinct comes up on the screen. A ballot measure to impose a tax on cat owners is on my ballot since I live in Phoenix. Your Glendale ballot is unique and the Cat Tax isn't on there. However there is a measure for Glendaleians to consider giving tax breaks to cat owners. Janet has a different ballot all together.

The potential is there to eliminate your polling place so you can go to one that is less crowded by your office on election day, go to one across the state, or the on next door and if there are poll workers that have it in for you, you sidestep them if you can.

Letting petfect be the enemy of Great is a sign of grasping

 

[Brain357]

Picture IDs on Voter Registration Cards; made available to any registrant free of charge.


As pointed out, a party chairwoman in, I believe it was, Palm Beach County Florida changed the course of history by approving a butterfly ballot that resulted in Gore losing the entire state. The stakes are much higher in our elections than cars exceeding the speed limit. I think we should take them seriously.

What is the objection again? People don't want to have their pictures taken....is that it? I mean, you're already registering to vote...right? What extra punishment comes with having a picture taken?

There is no dis-enfranchisement that comes along with having a picture taken...c'mon.





Good ideas too.

I've been thinking about voter registration cards and wonder about how they could be abused. I mean right now any US citizen can just go to the polls and vote. If we had cards that means you can't vote unless you have your card. So could kids just turning 18 in poor neighborhoods mysteriously get their cards late and not be able to vote? Or suppose you lose your card shortly before an election and it doesn't come in time due to being registered with a certain party. Will certain people not get one initially due to an error and have to go through a bunch of government crap just to get one in the first place? Seems like there is a lot of potential for abuse.

Any biped can present themselves at a polling place now and vote several times since we dont always verify who they are....citizen or not.

Sam's club gives you a card on the spot. When I was in college back in 1912 we had photo IDs thst allowed us into dorms, science labs, and to pay for our meals in the canteen. As these would have no value outside of voting, they wont generate much interest with criminals.

Certain people...wow. Does there exist a potential for abuse? Yes. As it exists today.

But what technology does for us is this....I live at 123 Main Street youin Phoenix, you live at 456 Elm Street Streetin Glendale, and, Janet lives at 789 Interstate 17 in Paradise Valley. We work together at the same office and at lunch 2 weeks before the election we decide to go vote next door at the post office. We go, stand in line, and present our IDs. The poll worker looks at us, at it, and waves us past. In my booth I swipe my card and a ballot for my voting precinct comes up on the screen. A ballot measure to impose a tax on cat owners is on my ballot since I live in Phoenix. Your Glendale ballot is unique and the Cat Tax isn't on there. However there is a measure for Glendaleians to consider giving tax breaks to cat owners. Janet has a different ballot all together.

The potential is there to eliminate your polling place so you can go to one that is less crowded by your office on election day, go to one across the state, or the on next door and if there are poll workers that have it in for you, you sidestep them if you can.

Letting petfect be the enemy of Great is a sign of grasping

You haven't changed my mind at all. Seeing what the IRS has recently done I'd hate to see what could happen with voter ID cards.