Ron Paul says tornado victims should not get aid

[Avatar4321]

I get what Ron Paul is saying. Thats what a Hardcore Libertarian would say.

But the rest of us are thinking about the people that do not have insurance and/or need help right now. Kind of hard to build a house over night, Mr Paul. Kind of hard to import food considering that the stores are probably wiped out too.

How does one survive until the insurance(hopefully by a respectable company) claim comes through? How does one survive when you have the funds but the people you need to buy the goods from has no address? I know, you get into your pickup and drive over to the next town--if you can find your damn pickup!!

Ron Paul is not opposed to private charity. So nice straw man.

Sadly, staw men is all the progressives have.

 

[rightwinger]

"Rightwinger".

I guess that makes sense, Republicans haven't been the party of self-responsibility in a long time. So long, that it has become a libertarian virtue.

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

No looking to the federal government to provide a solution is telling people "fuck you."

If you really cared you would do more than just pay your taxes and look to your government for a solution every time disaster strikes.

I bet it's pretty easy to sit on your ass and point to the government..

I would call that arrogant and snug...

Paying taxes isn't good enough....

Not to mention the majority of those assholes who sit there snug, who point to the government for solutions don't pay taxes anyways..

Once again liberalism IS a mental disorder...

Here is the way disaster relief works

If your house burns down, you are responsible for repairs along with whatever insurance and local charities wil pay

If there is a massive fire in your town, you still pay to fix your house, but the state will step in to provide additional assistance along with national charities

In a major disaster affecting a large region, the federal government steps in along with the state to provide disaster relief. National charities still provide individual assistance while the state and federal government provides grants and low cost loans to allow you to get back on your feet

 

[Avatar4321]

I get what Ron Paul is saying. Thats what a Hardcore Libertarian would say.

But the rest of us are thinking about the people that do not have insurance and/or need help right now. Kind of hard to build a house over night, Mr Paul. Kind of hard to import food considering that the stores are probably wiped out too.

How does one survive until the insurance(hopefully by a respectable company) claim comes through? How does one survive when you have the funds but the people you need to buy the goods from has no address? I know, you get into your pickup and drive over to the next town--if you can find your damn pickup!!

Ron Paul is not opposed to private charity. So nice straw man.

He is opposed to charity from the government. In the words of the right, a government handout.

The government can't perform charity. It's an impossibility. The very definition of charity requires voluntariness. Charity has to be provided of one's own free will. The government, by definition, acts through the use of force to take from people. There is nothing voluntary about it.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Paul is more interested in his "states rights" issue even after a "national" disaster.

How is it a "national" disaster?

If only one state was hit yet as much damage and death took place, would it no longer be a "national disaster" in your eyes?

Do you know what a republic is?

Do you have any idea why we are referred to as the "Unites States"?

Oh, so now it must have the official "National" disaster label before yo uare Ok with our Federal government helping out your fellow citizens? REALLY? Wow...

Is reading really THIS difficult?

I haven't seen any libertarian on this board or thread speak out against donating, in fact I've read the exact opposite.

 

[Avatar4321]

Isn't it interesting how Libertarians' desire for "freedom" correspond so neatly with skinflints who don't want to give ANYONE, ANYTHING..

Feel free to quote one of us who said nobody wants to give anyone anything. I have a feeling we'll be waiting for your reply for quite a while.

He's just a kid, there's no point in trying to reason with him.

There is no reason children and teens can't understand such concepts. They will never become adults until they are treated to the same standards.

 

[Avatar4321]

I dont see how it is government charity when the government FORCES the tax payer to give it up.

Of course you don't. because it's not.

 

[Jarhead]

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

No looking to the federal government to provide a solution is telling people "fuck you."

If you really cared you would do more than just pay your taxes and look to your government for a solution every time disaster strikes.

I bet it's pretty easy to sit on your ass and point to the government..

I would call that arrogant and snug...

Paying taxes isn't good enough....

Not to mention the majority of those assholes who sit there snug, who point to the government for solutions don't pay taxes anyways..

Once again liberalism IS a mental disorder...

Here is the way disaster relief works

If your house burns down, you are responsible for repairs along with whatever insurance and local charities wil pay

If there is a massive fire in your town, you still pay to fix your house, but the state will step in to provide additional assistance along with national charities

In a major disaster affecting a large region, the federal government steps in along with the state to provide disaster relief. National charities still provide individual assistance while the state and federal government provides grants and low cost loans to allow you to get back on your feet

So explain this...

if my house is struck by lightening and burns down....

Why am I not afforded the government grants and low cost loans?

How does "widespread" affect anyone individually more than "one home affected"?

You see...when you hgave government pick and choose, nothing is done fairly.

When the people pick and choose, everything is done fairly.

 

[Mr.Nick]

So, you agree with Paul, that the government should have left it up to the localities to clean up their mess?

if the government was not there to help them, I guarantee you, Americans would be there to help.

We, as a collective of individual Americans donated more money to Haiti than all other countries combined. I am not referring to Government aid that was sent....individual donations from individual Americans collectively donted more than all other populations of all other countries combined.

Our government didnt make us do it. We did it becuase we wanted to.

The problem with the left is they dont think Americans care about other people, so they feel Government needs to take our money and donate it for us.

They are wrong.

I think that its more they don't care for other people. So they dont expect others to do something they dont themselves do. Instead they have calculated that if they look like they care about others, we will give them more power, and sadly we comply.

Exactly, they want to look like they care, however when push comes to shove they start pointing fingers.

I suppose it's easy to talk but it's harder to act, and these twats are too fucking lazy and cheap to do a fucking thing.

As the old saying goes "talk is cheap."

It's amazing how people don't see progressives for what they are...

 

[blu]

If you have no problem with your tax dollars going to aid them then you'd have no problem donating to them of your own free will. Not to mention that he's absolutely right that they should have insurance to cover them.

 

[Avatar4321]

I have to wonder how may of those who claim that the survivors will not go hungry, be cold (it has snowed on the victims, BTW) because everything including their warm clothes are gone or have a safe place to sleep have opened their homes, sent their warm coats and groceries to the afflicted?

I'm sure some will say they have.

I have to wonder why you arent regardless of what others do or say.

 

[blu]

If you have no problem with your tax dollars going to aid them then you'd have no problem donating to them of your own free will. Not to mention that he's absolutely right that they should have insurance to cover them.

In many cases, the insurance is so outrageously expensive that they can't afford it.

Not only am I absolutely ok with my tax dollars going to help my fellow Americans, I've also donated to the Red Cross in each state affected. That's the Christian thing, and the American thing to do.

well other people aren't okay with it and its not constitutional....

 

[blu]

Once again, that little Libertarian Satan sitting on Ron Paul's shoulder is making him say stupid stuff

Sounds pretty logical to me, which is perhaps why you're having such a problem with it. Again, should they or should they not have home insurance to cover their losses?

So, when Governor Piyush Jindal was lambasting Obama and FEMA for not doing enough to help with the Gulof oil disaster, was he being a RINO? Unpatriotic? What?

yes, the state and city should have been able to handle it. just because both were unprepared doesn't mean the fed gov should have to step in

 

[Avatar4321]

Once again, that little Libertarian Satan sitting on Ron Paul's shoulder is making him say stupid stuff

"Rightwinger".

I guess that makes sense, Republicans haven't been the party of self-responsibility in a long time. So long, that it has become a libertarian virtue.

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

So the only way we could help people is through government assistance? Are you really going to argue that? Really?

In what used to be my country, if the Federal government showed up, the so called "victims" would have told them to go to hell because we are taking care of ourselves and we arent going to hand over our responsibilities and power to a bureaucrat when we can do it ourselves.

 

[boilermaker55]

The actual financial aid that Red Cross provides is minimal to say the least and only for emergency related needs. Their funds are all donated and primarily are used for those without insurance. If any big bucks come, they come through FEMA.

Bullshit..

The big bucks come from good people..

Glenn Beck just made a massive donation...

Most of the funds come from a collective that donate what they can. 5 bucks here 10 bucks there and 100 bucks here and there add up pretty quick.

This says it all about you.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's funny, the same people who claim they care so much are unwilling to help, donate money or time - instead they look to government to fix the problem.

Of course these are the same people who claim they care soooo fucking much and they're the laziest and cheapest of them all.

Oh yeah, of course its not your responsibility to help people - no no you pay sales tax hence you already helped now its up to the government to spend your "charity."

What do you think taxes are? carbon credits?

Isn't it interesting that that was precisely Ebeneezer Scrooges excuse not to give, because the government did it for him?

And the whole point of the story was that a man can change from being a misery like that to being a good and happy man.

 

[Avatar4321]

"Rightwinger".

I guess that makes sense, Republicans haven't been the party of self-responsibility in a long time. So long, that it has become a libertarian virtue.

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

wrong.

It is telling victims we would but the government insists on doing it for us..

If you ever volunteered during a crisis, you would understand.

I was literally KICKED OUT on 9-14....the government took my pic axe and shovel and told me to go behind the yellow tape....

And that, my brother, is completely messed up.

 

[Jarhead]

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

wrong.

It is telling victims we would but the government insists on doing it for us..

If you ever volunteered during a crisis, you would understand.

I was literally KICKED OUT on 9-14....the government took my pic axe and shovel and told me to go behind the yellow tape....

And that, my brother, is completely messed up.

I stood there for over 2 hours watching them talk about "wqho should do what" and "who didnt want to do what"....

And in that 2 hours?

I would have filled no less than 50 buckets of rubble.

 

[Avatar4321]

The actual financial aid that Red Cross provides is minimal to say the least and only for emergency related needs. Their funds are all donated and primarily are used for those without insurance. If any big bucks come, they come through FEMA.

Bullshit..

The big bucks come from good people..

Glenn Beck just made a massive donation...

Most of the funds come from a collective that donate what they can. 5 bucks here 10 bucks there and 100 bucks here and there add up pretty quick.

This says it all about you.

Of course Glenn Beck is a good person. he puts his money and his actions where his mouth is.

It does say alot about Nick to realize that. Im not sure what you think it says about him though.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you have no problem with your tax dollars going to aid them then you'd have no problem donating to them of your own free will. Not to mention that he's absolutely right that they should have insurance to cover them.

My heart goes out to the victims too, most especially those I know personally. We immediately give a little extra to private relief agencies who move in immediately to help those who have suffered property damage, injuries, or loss of loved ones. Our Mennonite friends who go to all disaster areas at their own expense and to help in any way they can are already there.

Once you take emotion out of it, however, and replace that with solid common siense, certain principles must apply for a free people:

The house that burned down in your town last night was just as devastating to the occupants as those caught in the tornados. Why is one more worthy of government rescue than the other?

If you choose to live in a place in which earthquake, hurricanes, large hail, heavy snows, tornados, land/mud slide, avalanche, devastating floods, etc. are essentially non existant--Albuquerque or Phoenix for instance--why should you be liable for risk chosen by people who do live in areas where such risk does exist?

My house is insured against fire, wind, hail and other natural or possible perils. Because we now are in an area essentially immune to flood damage and a damaging earthquake is highly unlikely in our lifetime, we do not have flood insurance or earthquake insurance. When we have lived in areas where flooding was a possibility we did have flood insurance, and if we moved into an earthquake prone area, we would expect to acquire earthquake insurance. It is what responsible people do. My loss should not be your responsibility to take care of.

Homeowners and business owners should be responsible to insure their property or take their chances. If they don't have insurance and sustain severe loss, they will be out the money or they will be at the mercy of family or charities. But then Americans are among the most generous of people on Earth and the outpouring of help is amazing when others are in trouble, most especially in major disasters. Chances are, somebody set up a fund or central agency to collect money and furniture or whatever for even that family who lived in the house that burned down.

It would be appropriate for the federal government to go into large disaster areas to help clear roads and administer necessary immediate emergency aid when local communities or states are overwhelmed. But that should be it. They should not assume the responsibilities that the Homewowners should have assumed in return for the privilege of home ownership.

 

[Mr.Nick]

That is not self responsibility...

That is telling victims .....Fuck you


Sorry, but my country is not like that

No looking to the federal government to provide a solution is telling people "fuck you."

If you really cared you would do more than just pay your taxes and look to your government for a solution every time disaster strikes.

I bet it's pretty easy to sit on your ass and point to the government..

I would call that arrogant and snug...

Paying taxes isn't good enough....

Not to mention the majority of those assholes who sit there snug, who point to the government for solutions don't pay taxes anyways..

Once again liberalism IS a mental disorder...

Here is the way disaster relief works

If your house burns down, you are responsible for repairs along with whatever insurance and local charities wil pay

If there is a massive fire in your town, you still pay to fix your house, but the state will step in to provide additional assistance along with national charities

In a major disaster affecting a large region, the federal government steps in along with the state to provide disaster relief. National charities still provide individual assistance while the state and federal government provides grants and low cost loans to allow you to get back on your feet

No that's not how it works...

You big government lunatics invented that tyrannical bullshit order...

When disaster strikes the community (and even the state) fixes the problem NOT THE FUCKING FEDERAL GOVERNMENT...

If you progressives don't make checks and balances you assholes will progress your way into a George Orwell novel. Because my experience with the progressive on this board (and in general) tells me that they believe our federal government has no limitations and our Bill of Rights means nothing to them, and the only time it does have a meaning is when progressives embrace anarchy...