RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[Flopper]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Tax exemptions and credits are used by congress to encourage certain behavior, getting married, buying homes and expensive luxury items, electric cars, having kids, buying municipal bonds, investing, spending lots of money on healthcare, and on and on. The problem is once they become part of the tax code, they remain forever. The result is a very complex tax code, that makes no sense at all. Do we really need the government encouraging people to marry, have kids, buy homes, boats, and cars, and spend lots of money on healthcare.

However, deductions and credits will be with us as long as there is a congress, businesses, and individuals asking for them. They pave the way for reelection

 

[tinydancer]

You know what I don't get guys this is really simple. France has a superb two tier program. This is what everyone should have. BUT no politicians want to fix a damn thing. Now I am up here in the land of OMG perfect healthcare but my funeral parlour is closer than my fucking emergency ward.

Then when my NDP commie asshole Selinger brags on my healthcare he actually ups the price on my ambulance ride. Green house gas emissions and all. Has to penalize me for having to take an ambulance.

You sure you guys want to live like this?

 

[tinydancer]

I think what it boils down to our politicians don't want to fix jack shit. Hells bells I put up real life thread about my council not wanting to deal with a grow op right next to my post office and even you guys don't want to address it. Or even want to try to help me out.

 

[healthmyths]

You know what I don't get guys this is really simple. France has a superb two tier program. This is what everyone should have. BUT no politicians want to fix a damn thing. Now I am up here in the land of OMG perfect healthcare but my funeral parlour is closer than my fucking emergency ward.

Then when my NDP commie asshole Selinger brags on my healthcare he actually ups the price on my ambulance ride. Green house gas emissions and all. Has to penalize me for having to take an ambulance.

You sure you guys want to live like this?

France is 1/5th the size of USA and you are making a comparison?
As of 2004, French conservative think-tank Institut Montaigne estimated that there were 60 million (85%) white people of European origin, 6 million (10%) North African people, 2 million (3.5%) Black people and 1 million (1.5%) people of Asian origin in Metropolitan France, including all generations of immigrant descendants.[22]
USA demographics: Whites: 63.7% Blacks 12.2%, Asian 4.7%, Hispanic/Latino 16.3%
And you want to compare France with USA?

France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke
The tinkering appears to have succeeded in bringing down costs, though it’s unclear by how much. The government projects the health-care system’s 2013 shortfall will be about €5.1 billion, down from €11.6 billion in 2010 France’s system “is simply unaffordable, unsustainable, and the manner in which it’s financed is a huge burden on the economy,” says Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London. “The French are not being realistic.”
France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke - Businessweek

AGAIN... folks deal with REALITY!
A) never were 46 million people that were legal citizens, KNEW they were eligible for Medicaid AND want health insurance! Less then 4 million!
1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

B) Lawyers causing doctors out of fear of lawsuits to to do $850 billion a year in defensive medicine claims again paid for by insurance companies who do what?
RAISE THE PREMIUMS!

Why is it all of you have stupid ass comparisons and opinions BUT no links! No supporting documentation!

 

[TooTall]

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

I do not know of any urgent care centers that are located IN a hospital. My doctor has an X-ray machine and has to send me to a specialist for diagnostic imaging, EKG etc. The Urgent care center in the same building has to do the same thing. The only advantage I found is the Urgent care center is walk in and wait while I need an appointment to see my Doctor.

There are urgent care centers in some hospital. I've found urgent care centers found commonly in shopping centers are good for a handful of pills, inoculations, advice, and referral to an emergency room.

I can only speak for the state of Georgia where there are 492 FREE healthcare clinics and a lot of Urgent Care centers, as you say, in shopping centers, etc. I found NO urgent care centers in Hospitals, but like I said, that is only in Georgia.

I'm in the Seattle area. About half the hospitals have urgent care centers.

That is a definite improvement over most Urgent care centers that have somewhat limited capability. They do serve a needed service for non-life threatening problems.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It was shitty before.

What we had before need adjusting.
What Obama and Liberals did was:
- Completely destroying the previous system
- Forcing a Program so bad that the majority of Americans did not want it down their throats...
- They did so in the wee hours of the morning so Americans wouldn't know it was happening
- To sell it to begin with they had to lie their asses off...and it was still rejected by the majority
- It was so bad they had to impose a 'FINE' to force people to buy it / participate
- ...Then it was so bad those who passed it exempted themselves from it
- They basically caused everyone's policies to go away because they designed/imposed a new minimum coverage for everyone
- It caused people to lose coverage, lose jobs, have their hours cut
- They declared to Americans 'You have no right to know what's in it until the 'edict' is passed
- They spent billions on a WEB SITE, that still sucks and is a Identity Theft Nightmare

Know the fastest way to get it repealed / replaced? FORCE your Congressman to participate! (It is UN-Constitutional for them to exempt themselves any way!)

Oh come off it.

The system needed adjusting MASSIVELY, like, by changing many things.

Obama hasn't "completely destroyed the previous system", the hospitals are still there, people are still getting healthcare.

Personally I don't like Obamacare because I don't think it went far enough in changing the previous system.

The program is "so bad"? You mean, you don't like it. How is it "so bad" in comparison with the previous system which was leaking money into people's pockets like crazy?

But like I said, I don't think Obamacare is the fix that is needed. I think this was the best Obama could ever hope for with the Republicans unwilling to allow a system that hands out cash to people to disappear.

My only hope is that Obamacare is the first step, and then someone else makes the next step and over time things get better. The Republicans don't want things better, they like having cash thrown at them, they like to be able to have the corruption that leaks money into their pockets.

 

[frigidweirdo]

View attachment 66120

I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......

*****CHUCKLE*****

These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.

Except in some European countries they have not for profit insurance companies and they are able to stay in business.

ok...I'm curious....Which ones?
BTW why are we mentioning insurance companies in countries where the government insures its citizen's health?.....

Switzerland, for example

Healthcare in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance,"

"Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans."

I didn't read the link, but the requirement for everyone to buy basic health insurance was interesting. When thousands of people in Flint, Michigan won't even pay their water bill, what makes you think they would pay for anything? Of course the loss of FREE Medicaid would cause a few million heart attacks.

The US has a problem in the first place.

If you go to a poor place, often you'll find that people throw their garbage all around the place, they don't care about their surroundings, they're just fighting for survival and don't appreciate the environment around them.

Sometimes this sort of mentality also happens in other areas. If you have no hope, then you don't try and improve things. Switzerland has the mentality, in the US many don't. They've been downtrodden so often, they merely try and survive, and don't care about the bigger picture. It's a day to day thing.

How is it that the richest country on Earth has managed to get this mentality so much more than other countries?

 

[Flopper]

I think what it boils down to our politicians don't want to fix jack shit. Hells bells I put up real life thread about my council not wanting to deal with a grow op right next to my post office and even you guys don't want to address it. Or even want to try to help me out.

I think Obamacare sent a strong message to congressmen. Promise to improve the healthcare system, but once elected consider it a dangerous viper and stay clear of it.

 

[SmokeALib]

1. Repeal the Unaffordable Health Care Act.
2. Sell insurance across state lines.
3. Buy your insurance.

 

[Flopper]

It was shitty before.

What we had before need adjusting.
What Obama and Liberals did was:
- Completely destroying the previous system
- Forcing a Program so bad that the majority of Americans did not want it down their throats...
- They did so in the wee hours of the morning so Americans wouldn't know it was happening
- To sell it to begin with they had to lie their asses off...and it was still rejected by the majority
- It was so bad they had to impose a 'FINE' to force people to buy it / participate
- ...Then it was so bad those who passed it exempted themselves from it
- They basically caused everyone's policies to go away because they designed/imposed a new minimum coverage for everyone
- It caused people to lose coverage, lose jobs, have their hours cut
- They declared to Americans 'You have no right to know what's in it until the 'edict' is passed
- They spent billions on a WEB SITE, that still sucks and is a Identity Theft Nightmare

Know the fastest way to get it repealed / replaced? FORCE your Congressman to participate! (It is UN-Constitutional for them to exempt themselves any way!)

Oh come off it.

The system needed adjusting MASSIVELY, like, by changing many things.

Obama hasn't "completely destroyed the previous system", the hospitals are still there, people are still getting healthcare.

Personally I don't like Obamacare because I don't think it went far enough in changing the previous system.

The program is "so bad"? You mean, you don't like it. How is it "so bad" in comparison with the previous system which was leaking money into people's pockets like crazy?

But like I said, I don't think Obamacare is the fix that is needed. I think this was the best Obama could ever hope for with the Republicans unwilling to allow a system that hands out cash to people to disappear.

My only hope is that Obamacare is the first step, and then someone else makes the next step and over time things get better. The Republicans don't want things better, they like having cash thrown at them, they like to be able to have the corruption that leaks money into their pockets.

We won't see any changes until congress, Republican or Democrat decide to improve the existing law. Regardless of what politicians promise, congress is not going to go through another healthcare reform. To create a new healthcare system to replace Obamacare will cause massive transitional problems for the insured, the healthcare industry, and the insurance industry. Democrats in congress have been there and done that and suffered at the polls. I don't see either party going that way.

According to Gallup, only 6% of voters consider healthcare the most important problem the country faces. Voters consider the economy, unemployment, federal budget deficits, dissatisfaction with government, immigration, national security, and terrorism all more important than healthcare.

 

[Flopper]

1. Repeal the Unaffordable Health Care Act.
2. Sell insurance across state lines.
3. Buy your insurance.

What might the federal government do to encourage more health insurance companies to sell across state lines when the problem is not federal laws but state laws and regulations.

 

[Wildman]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

you figure it out your muslime mulatto son-of-a-bitch is the one who fucked it up, it's not our problem to put it back the way it was before the cocker and the bitches who said, we need to pass it to find out what is in it" ...., is that clear enough or do i need to draw pictures for you and the lunkheads who agree with you.

 

[Wildman]

The starving kids in Africa

fuck those kids in Afreakathey have parents who need to take care of their own, not me or anyone who believes there is no free lunch.

 

[Wildman]

Millions of brainwashed functional morons and freeloaders...

like yourself ?

 

[Wildman]

one more thing dumbshit.., i lost two of the best doctors i ever had due to your fucked up O'shitforbrainsbamacare !!!

 

[MaryL]

Get rid of the arcane middle ages billing processes, make costs straight forward and accountable. Like when you get your car or furnace worked on, no more games. Obama was dancing around this with his so called "Affordable" health care. Obama lied a little bit. Neither affordable nor healthy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It was shitty before.

What we had before need adjusting.
What Obama and Liberals did was:
- Completely destroying the previous system
- Forcing a Program so bad that the majority of Americans did not want it down their throats...
- They did so in the wee hours of the morning so Americans wouldn't know it was happening
- To sell it to begin with they had to lie their asses off...and it was still rejected by the majority
- It was so bad they had to impose a 'FINE' to force people to buy it / participate
- ...Then it was so bad those who passed it exempted themselves from it
- They basically caused everyone's policies to go away because they designed/imposed a new minimum coverage for everyone
- It caused people to lose coverage, lose jobs, have their hours cut
- They declared to Americans 'You have no right to know what's in it until the 'edict' is passed
- They spent billions on a WEB SITE, that still sucks and is a Identity Theft Nightmare

Know the fastest way to get it repealed / replaced? FORCE your Congressman to participate! (It is UN-Constitutional for them to exempt themselves any way!)

Oh come off it.

The system needed adjusting MASSIVELY, like, by changing many things.

Obama hasn't "completely destroyed the previous system", the hospitals are still there, people are still getting healthcare.

Personally I don't like Obamacare because I don't think it went far enough in changing the previous system.

The program is "so bad"? You mean, you don't like it. How is it "so bad" in comparison with the previous system which was leaking money into people's pockets like crazy?

But like I said, I don't think Obamacare is the fix that is needed. I think this was the best Obama could ever hope for with the Republicans unwilling to allow a system that hands out cash to people to disappear.

My only hope is that Obamacare is the first step, and then someone else makes the next step and over time things get better. The Republicans don't want things better, they like having cash thrown at them, they like to be able to have the corruption that leaks money into their pockets.

We won't see any changes until congress, Republican or Democrat decide to improve the existing law. Regardless of what politicians promise, congress is not going to go through another healthcare reform. To create a new healthcare system to replace Obamacare will cause massive transitional problems for the insured, the healthcare industry, and the insurance industry. Democrats in congress have been there and done that and suffered at the polls. I don't see either party going that way.

According to Gallup, only 6% of voters consider healthcare the most important problem the country faces. Voters consider the economy, unemployment, federal budget deficits, dissatisfaction with government, immigration, national security, and terrorism all more important than healthcare.

Change isn't desired because people are told that they don't want change, that they want to spend loads on healthcare and make the rich richer, by the rich.

American has reached the point where change is almost impossible, and this is the sign of demise.

 

[frigidweirdo]

1. Repeal the Unaffordable Health Care Act.
2. Sell insurance across state lines.
3. Buy your insurance.

Buy insurance and pay the insurance companies their profits.
Insurance companies take your money and buy drugs at 3 times the price, and anything else they feel like too.

Feel good today, because you made people rich for no reason.

 

[Flopper]

Get rid of the arcane middle ages billing processes, make costs straight forward and accountable. Like when you get your car or furnace worked on, no more games. Obama was dancing around this with his so called "Affordable" health care. Obama lied a little bit. Neither affordable nor healthy.

What do you mean by arcane middle ages billing processes?

When you get your car repaired, a garage does a diagnostic to determined the failing part(s). The garage know the cost of the parts, time to repair so they just apply their overhead and profit to cost of labor and parts and that's it.

You go to the doctor get a diagnosis of a serious disease. The doc can't tell you exactly what medical care you will need, nor the cost of that care because it varies by patient. So billing must be done based on the actual cost of each procedure. Since the healthcare providers, not the insurance companies determine what care is required, there is very little cost control by those that pay the bills.

 

[MaryL]

Get rid of the arcane middle ages billing processes, make costs straight forward and accountable. Like when you get your car or furnace worked on, no more games. Obama was dancing around this with his so called "Affordable" health care. Obama lied a little bit. Neither affordable nor healthy.

What do you mean by arcane middle ages billing processes?

THEY know, they know. Nobody else does.