RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[Flopper]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and their profits sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

 

[healthmyths]

I spent over 20 years in the Insurance Industry. The last 15 of it, I owned my own Agency.

That's my bona fides.

We NEED the ACA. Unless you want Single Payer, we MUST have the ACA.

And trust me, you really, really, really don't want single payer.

I'm a Veteran. I get my Health Care through the gubmint. It's horrible. Worse than horrible -- It's criminal. Half those people would be indicted if they worked in the Private Sector.

You think you can control a government monster once you take the leash off? It's never worked in the history of Man.

We either fix the ACA or you need to get used to the idea of government Health Care.

And why should a 35 year-old making over $50k be forced to buy Health Insurance?

Because if that yuppie fuck wraps his 325i around a tree at 2:00AM and he needs VERY expensive life-saving surgery and months of follow-ups and rehab --

Guess who gets stuck with that bill?

YOU do. The Doctors and Hospitals 'cost-shift' it onto you. IOW, instead of paying $5k for a procedure, they have to charge you $10k to make up for the lost revenue from Senor Yuppie

And that is what makes laissez faire Health Insurance a really bad idea.

Trust me

Actually it is called "EMTALA"
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
So what happens is hospitals OVERCHARGE insurance companies and those that can pay i.e. $10 aspirin!
Just as this hospital CEO when asked: "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured? Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers.”

And HOW MANY YUPPIES do you know that have that happen?
First of all if you know ANYTHING about INSURANCE then tell me did the YUPPIE have auto insurance???

 

[Flopper]

Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.

These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.

YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.

The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....
Worse outcomes? For whom?

You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.

We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?

With approximately half the people not paying any income tax or owning their own home, I really don't see how the average American is paying 60% of their earnings in taxes.

 

[g5000]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

Take away the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI bends the cost curve of health care up. It is a massive boondoggle that needs to go away. Instead of mandating employers provide health insurance like ObamaCare does, we should dis-incentivize it.

You are a hostage to your employer's health plan. It is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. You have ZERO bargaining leverage. In turn, small employers have little to no leverage with the insurance companies. And if one person in a small business runs up large medical bills, the premiums of every employee skyrockets.

In turn, the insurance company is hostage to the medical provider in that geographical area.

This is one seriously screwed up way to run health care, and is yet another example of how tax expenditures distort the living shit out of the free market.

You should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy all your other insurance. You pick up the phone and call ANY insurance provider in the country, and you decide what options you want.

Q: What is the big difference between health insurance and every other kind of insurance?

A: The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its competitors! That's unfair competition staring you right in the face, boys and girls.

The government is not a big player in the auto, life, or home insurance markets. It shouldn't be in the health insurance market, either.

When you are able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company you wish, then you have maximum market leverage. That has been stolen from you by the government, and by the labor unions who want you penned up in a take-it-or-leave-it bullshit situation at your job.

What's more, when you lose or quit your job, or transfer to another company, you lose your health insurance, and you lose the benefits of long term customer discounts. This does not happen to you with all your other insurance.

 

[Arianrhod]

See that's the problem with you people. YOU have been benefitting from it so for some reason that means it's perfect. The reality is that every cost of living expense has gone up while wages have remained flat. The middle class is shrinking. Poor people can't afford even the most basic services. At this rate, a time will come when you can't afford it either.

you are correct, the time is coming that I wont be able to afford it. And that is because I am being forced to pay for someone elses insurance along with my own. Without the ACA f-ing up our premiums, we all could have kept affording it just as we have been since forever.
But the left wont be happy until those that have it now, buy it for those that dont have it.

There is nothing ACA has done to increase premiums. Nothing. That's just the nature of capitalism.

Horseshit.. The wife and I can attest. Our costs have risen dramatically. Where we had no deductible( 90%) coverage, we now have $2500 out of pocket then 80% coverage.
Don't fucking tell us ACA has nothing to do with that....

Your insurer is ripping you off. Time to do some comparison shopping.

Really? And you know this how?

Because you said so in Post #204.

BTW, genius, this is the plan we could afford through the wife's employer.

Well, golly gee, maybe you'll have to wean off the corporate teat, go to the exchange(s), and find your own plan like a responsible adult.

 

[Papageorgio]

I hope it is doomed, it was poorly written and it is a terrible law. To require citizens to purchase anything as part of being legal citizens is wrong.

Wrong. It's called being Financially Responsible.

Most States have Financial Responsibility laws regarding Auto Insurance.

You can't just buy a clunker and run it on down the road. Most States require that you have Insurance so that you have the ability to pay for the damage you might do to Persons or their Property (Car)

Same with Health Insurance. I'm tired of Ricky Redneck refusing to buy Health Insurance because he'd rather get a set of Hooker Headers for his raggedy-assed Camaro, then he piles it into a Telephone Pole at 80 MPH and needs hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical care that he doesn't have the insurance to pay for.

Fuck him.

If you want to advocate that we let people bleed to death on the Hospital door steps, let's hear it.

Otherwise, we need to mandate Health Insurance.

Insurance is a psychologically difficult thing for the average person to process, to digest.

But that's okay. We just need to tell you that you have either get it or pay a BIG fucking fine. I'm thinking $10k every year you don't have it.

Bull shit, I don't have to own a car. To force a person to have insurance is wrong. I know of no one nor do I advocate people bleeding on the steps of a hospital and it doesn't happen. Currently I pay close to 10k a year before my health care kicks in. The premiums alone are over 7k a year. Then I get to wait for the deductible to kick in and then it goes to 80/20. Terrible insurance at an outrageous price. Tax me the 10k a year, it is close to the same. Burden the middle class to pay for everyone else. Fuck you!

 

[g5000]

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending.

And the result of this trend has been decades of skyrocketing health care costs.

We are moving in the wrong direction. We need government to get OUT of the health business.

 

[Flopper]

I had a brain fart and I sure did mean to type Medicaid instead of Medicare. Change the word and then tell me I am wrong.

Fair enough, but emergency rooms are not free.

They are free to the poor people that go to them. I agree that they are not a cost effective way to deliver healthcare. Too many people go there for a hangnail or a summer cold.

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

 

[Conservative65]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

The GOP guys here know how to fix the health system.

Insult a Democrat...

The Democrats claim they know how to fix everything. FORCE the funding of it from someone else.

 

[Flopper]

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending.

And the result of this trend has been decades of skyrocketing health care costs.

We are moving in the wrong direction. We need government to get OUT of the health business.

There is certainly a correlation between increased government spending on healthcare and the rising cost of healthcare. However, correlation is not the same as causation.

 

[Conservative65]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

Single payer is possible and affordable, government insurance and subsidies now covers approximately 40% of the US population and accounts for over 48% of America's healthcare spending. By phasing out private insurance over a period of years and transferring into to a single payer system, we could see a significant decrease in healthcare costs.

There is little competition between insurance companies and even less cost control. Their claims processing is more expensive than single payer and sucks billions of dollars out the system each year.

Who the hell do you think is funding those subsidies? It isn't the government. The ONLY way the government has the money is by taking it from someone that actually had to do something to earn it. See, the government provides no service nor produces any product that brings in revenue.

Under private insurance, my max out of pocket for any year was $750. I consider that very good and don't need the government fucking it up for the sake of someone else.

 

[Flopper]

How do we fix our healthcare woes?

Take away the tax exemption for employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI bends the cost curve of health care up. It is a massive boondoggle that needs to go away. Instead of mandating employers provide health insurance like ObamaCare does, we should dis-incentivize it.

You are a hostage to your employer's health plan. It is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition. You have ZERO bargaining leverage. In turn, small employers have little to no leverage with the insurance companies. And if one person in a small business runs up large medical bills, the premiums of every employee skyrockets.

In turn, the insurance company is hostage to the medical provider in that geographical area.

This is one seriously screwed up way to run health care, and is yet another example of how tax expenditures distort the living shit out of the free market.

You should be buying your health insurance the same way you buy all your other insurance. You pick up the phone and call ANY insurance provider in the country, and you decide what options you want.

Q: What is the big difference between health insurance and every other kind of insurance?

A: The government is the biggest player in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its competitors! That's unfair competition staring you right in the face, boys and girls.

The government is not a big player in the auto, life, or home insurance markets. It shouldn't be in the health insurance market, either.

When you are able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company you wish, then you have maximum market leverage. That has been stolen from you by the government, and by the labor unions who want you penned up in a take-it-or-leave-it bullshit situation at your job.

What's more, when you lose or quit your job, or transfer to another company, you lose your health insurance, and you lose the benefits of long term customer discounts. This does not happen to you with all your other insurance.

I agree with your point that employers shouldn't be providing health insurance. It was a bad idea from the get go. By the time employers realized in 1980's, they should not be in the healthcare business, it was too late. Labor unions, competition from other employers, and state laws made it very difficult to drop health insurance.

 

[TooTall]

I've shown you where the biggest waste and fraud is. Why are you people so interested in protecting lawyers?
You trust your doctor to go to him/her. You take their expertise.
So why are you balking at a study where 90% of the doctors agree... insurance companies are wasteful paying claims for duplicate testing,etc. all because
they fear lawyers and their lawsuits. $850 Billion is a huge number and yet are you all sure that is OK with you? Again insurance companies pay the claims and raise the premiums as long as they spend 80% of premiums on claims. Doesn't this sound like something that is just asking for abuse?

Every little bit helps, but there are a lot of lawyers in Congress and the President is a lawyer.

"Tort reform would change statutes regarding medical malpractice lawsuits, which Republicans say lead to frivolous claims and legal costs. It saves money, but it’s nothing to write home about. In 2010, the CBO said modest reforms, such as capping non economic damages at $250,000 and punitive damages at $500,000, would save $54 billion in federal spending over the next 10 years. Such a move would also reduce medical liability insurance and eliminate some threat of lawsuits that push doctors to prescribe unnecessary medical tests, decreasing overall health care costs by 0.5 percent."

 

[francoHFW]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

not sure what you are talking about , I and my family have been benefiting from it for as long as I can remember. The sytem worked well the way it was and the care was excellent.

See that's the problem with you people. YOU have been benefitting from it so for some reason that means it's perfect. The reality is that every cost of living expense has gone up while wages have remained flat. The middle class is shrinking. Poor people can't afford even the most basic services. At this rate, a time will come when you can't afford it either.

Thanks to Obamacare the working middle class can't afford it. You help the poor at the expense of the middle class, that is why the middle class is shrinking. The Dems and the Repubs work for the rich.

A family of four gets subsidies up to $87k...only with competition and regulation can costs be gotten under control. Starting now, FINALLY, dupe of the greedy idiot billionaire GOP...

 

[francoHFW]

See that's the problem with you people. YOU have been benefitting from it so for some reason that means it's perfect. The reality is that every cost of living expense has gone up while wages have remained flat. The middle class is shrinking. Poor people can't afford even the most basic services. At this rate, a time will come when you can't afford it either.

Thanks to Obamacare the working middle class can't afford it. You help the poor at the expense of the middle class, that is why the middle class is shrinking. The Dems and the Repubs work for the rich.

Do you realize what the ultimate result would be if "The Dems and The Repubs work for the rich"????
If as it appears YOU and millions of misinformed people that think that premise, wouldn't the "rich" numbers be declining until less then a handful of extremely rich
would be "consuming" all the efforts of the rest of us? In other words based on your premise, all the politicians are working for fewer and fewer richer and richer people so
at some point there are just a few very rich people in the world.
Sorry but the reality is there are NOW more billionaires and millionaires then anytime in history!
A study last fall (2015) from Credit Suisse that said the world's millionaire population was roughly 35 million, and was expected to reach 53 million by 2019.
How many millionaires? Depends who’s counting

Would any of you really believe that the number of "rich" people is declining????

The 1% get elected to Congress, the 1% lobby Congress, do you honestly think they care what the middle class pays for a gallon of milk, or what the middle class pays for healthcare, or how the middle class is the ones burdened with big government? Obamacare hurt the middle class, not the poor, not the rich, the middle class.

Both Republicans and Democrats write laws that favor the rich, because they are the rich.

So how come at the end of 2011, there were 11 million millionaires versus 100 years ago when there were 207 people in the USA that had $1m income/ year.

Why are you so intent to take come from the rich when YOU could spend that time getting rich yourself?
Why are people like you so jealous of the rich when as the above statistics show there has been a 5,3014,010% INCREASE in millionaires!
Think about it. Are you that lazy or stupid that you can't get on your own make a success of your life?

Some 86% of millionaires say they made their own wealth, according to Fidelity’s 2012 Millionaire Outlook Survey. Of these self-made millionaires, 30% told Fidelity that they struggled financially when they were young. But fruitful careers in finance, accounting, or technical industries set them on a different financial path. The good news for you? Even a simple business idea can get you into their club.
10 Things You Didn't Know About Millionaires

I don't begrudge the rich, good for them. I work for a rich guy. I dislike that Congress caters to the rich and spit on the middle class. Congress is supposed to work for everyone, not the rich.

The GOP caters to the rich DUH, dupe.

 

[Papageorgio]

Thanks to Obamacare the working middle class can't afford it. You help the poor at the expense of the middle class, that is why the middle class is shrinking. The Dems and the Repubs work for the rich.

Do you realize what the ultimate result would be if "The Dems and The Repubs work for the rich"????
If as it appears YOU and millions of misinformed people that think that premise, wouldn't the "rich" numbers be declining until less then a handful of extremely rich
would be "consuming" all the efforts of the rest of us? In other words based on your premise, all the politicians are working for fewer and fewer richer and richer people so
at some point there are just a few very rich people in the world.
Sorry but the reality is there are NOW more billionaires and millionaires then anytime in history!
A study last fall (2015) from Credit Suisse that said the world's millionaire population was roughly 35 million, and was expected to reach 53 million by 2019.
How many millionaires? Depends who’s counting

Would any of you really believe that the number of "rich" people is declining????

The 1% get elected to Congress, the 1% lobby Congress, do you honestly think they care what the middle class pays for a gallon of milk, or what the middle class pays for healthcare, or how the middle class is the ones burdened with big government? Obamacare hurt the middle class, not the poor, not the rich, the middle class.

Both Republicans and Democrats write laws that favor the rich, because they are the rich.

So how come at the end of 2011, there were 11 million millionaires versus 100 years ago when there were 207 people in the USA that had $1m income/ year.

Why are you so intent to take come from the rich when YOU could spend that time getting rich yourself?
Why are people like you so jealous of the rich when as the above statistics show there has been a 5,3014,010% INCREASE in millionaires!
Think about it. Are you that lazy or stupid that you can't get on your own make a success of your life?

Some 86% of millionaires say they made their own wealth, according to Fidelity’s 2012 Millionaire Outlook Survey. Of these self-made millionaires, 30% told Fidelity that they struggled financially when they were young. But fruitful careers in finance, accounting, or technical industries set them on a different financial path. The good news for you? Even a simple business idea can get you into their club.
10 Things You Didn't Know About Millionaires

I don't begrudge the rich, good for them. I work for a rich guy. I dislike that Congress caters to the rich and spit on the middle class. Congress is supposed to work for everyone, not the rich.

The GOP caters to the rich DUH, dupe.

So do the democrats, they raped the middle class with their healthcare bill. Bend over and take it. I see no difference between Republicans and Democrats. The democrats like yourself just aren't smart enough to see it. Dupe!

 

[francoHFW]

These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.

YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.

The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....
Worse outcomes? For whom?

You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.

We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?

With approximately half the people not paying any income tax or owning their own home, I really don't see how the average American is paying 60% of their earnings in taxes.

EVERYONE on average is paying between 20 and 30% in all taxes and fees, with almost all of the new wealth going to the richest. It's basically a flat tax system and the nonrich and the country have been slowly ruined under Voodoo. See sig. ACA is going to help the non-rich.

Amazing how misinformed the dupes are...

 

[francoHFW]

Do you realize what the ultimate result would be if "The Dems and The Repubs work for the rich"????
If as it appears YOU and millions of misinformed people that think that premise, wouldn't the "rich" numbers be declining until less then a handful of extremely rich
would be "consuming" all the efforts of the rest of us? In other words based on your premise, all the politicians are working for fewer and fewer richer and richer people so
at some point there are just a few very rich people in the world.
Sorry but the reality is there are NOW more billionaires and millionaires then anytime in history!
A study last fall (2015) from Credit Suisse that said the world's millionaire population was roughly 35 million, and was expected to reach 53 million by 2019.
How many millionaires? Depends who’s counting

Would any of you really believe that the number of "rich" people is declining????

The 1% get elected to Congress, the 1% lobby Congress, do you honestly think they care what the middle class pays for a gallon of milk, or what the middle class pays for healthcare, or how the middle class is the ones burdened with big government? Obamacare hurt the middle class, not the poor, not the rich, the middle class.

Both Republicans and Democrats write laws that favor the rich, because they are the rich.

So how come at the end of 2011, there were 11 million millionaires versus 100 years ago when there were 207 people in the USA that had $1m income/ year.

Why are you so intent to take come from the rich when YOU could spend that time getting rich yourself?
Why are people like you so jealous of the rich when as the above statistics show there has been a 5,3014,010% INCREASE in millionaires!
Think about it. Are you that lazy or stupid that you can't get on your own make a success of your life?

Some 86% of millionaires say they made their own wealth, according to Fidelity’s 2012 Millionaire Outlook Survey. Of these self-made millionaires, 30% told Fidelity that they struggled financially when they were young. But fruitful careers in finance, accounting, or technical industries set them on a different financial path. The good news for you? Even a simple business idea can get you into their club.
10 Things You Didn't Know About Millionaires

I don't begrudge the rich, good for them. I work for a rich guy. I dislike that Congress caters to the rich and spit on the middle class. Congress is supposed to work for everyone, not the rich.

The GOP caters to the rich DUH, dupe.

So do the democrats, they raped the middle class with their healthcare bill. Bend over and take it. I see no difference between Republicans and Democrats. The democrats like yourself just aren't smart enough to see it. Dupe!

Healthy competition hasn't started yet in red states, thanks to Pubs and their insurer cronies. The cost curve is bending down anyway. The dupes missing their old scam plans are brainwashed functional morons.

 

[TooTall]

Fair enough, but emergency rooms are not free.

They are free to the poor people that go to them. I agree that they are not a cost effective way to deliver healthcare. Too many people go there for a hangnail or a summer cold.

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

If you are you saying that urgent care centers have cancer specialists and cardiologists on staff you would be wrong.

I'm saying urgent care facilities in hospitals have access to diagnostic facilities not available in doctors offices and can provide faster turnaround. They do treatments and diagnostic testing that's not commonly done in your doctors office such as administering IVs, wound care, diagnostic imaging, EKG', etc. I've found that today, there is very little done in doctor's office other than examination, referrals, ordering of tests done in other facilities, and writing prescriptions. Good urgent care centers in hospitals are or should be a step between your doctor's office and the ER.

I do not know of any urgent care centers that are located IN a hospital. My doctor has an X-ray machine and has to send me to a specialist for diagnostic imaging, EKG etc. The Urgent care center in the same building has to do the same thing. The only advantage I found is the Urgent care center is walk in and wait while I need an appointment to see my Doctor.

 

[healthmyths]

YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.

The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....
Worse outcomes? For whom?

You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.

We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?

With approximately half the people not paying any income tax or owning their own home, I really don't see how the average American is paying 60% of their earnings in taxes.

EVERYONE on average is paying between 20 and 30% in all taxes and fees, with almost all of the new wealth going to the richest. It's basically a flat tax system and the nonrich and the country have been slowly ruined under Voodoo. See sig. ACA is going to help the non-rich.

Amazing how misinformed the dupes are...

Where are you getting those statistics?
What do you mean "taxes"... you talking about income taxes OR sales/property taxes?
Plus if you are eligible for Earned Income Tax credit... YOU are paid by the government.