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We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.then respond to one point at a time..
I'm not doing the work for you.
My posts are entitlement free.
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
ACA gives us tons of new info on hospital, doctor, and drug costs. Next we can start doing something about them.Drug prices in the US are 3 times what they are in Britain, 6 times what they are in most other European countries and 16 times the price in India. The why is easy to understand. Other countries allow generics to be sold in place of brand name drugs. In the US, brand names are protected by patents for 10 years and if the manufacturer makes improvements which can be just packaging, the patent protection can be extended another 5 years. We are depend on completion in the US to keep down the price of drugs and the FDA eliminates any completion. In effect we are subsidizing the world's cost of developing new drugs and providing drug companies most of their profits.I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.
Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....
Viable for some, not for all. That was part of the problem.
The other part of the problem is that corruption means 30% or more of the money goes on corruption.
Drugs cost more in the US than anywhere else, why? Because they know they can charge Americans loads because of the system, but know they can't do the same in other countries.
And people defend this nonsense.
To add insult to injury, the drug company that is selling you their brand name drug at $300 a month is manufacturing the drug in India, Pakistan or various European countries for pennies. If the drug is to be sold in the US, it is packaged with the US brand name. If it's to be sold in other counters, it's packaged with a different name and sold at a 1/3 to 1/10 the US cost and considered a generic.
To put it very simply, the US consumer is getting screwed and we are paying the cost in higher premiums and co-pays.
BS. Dems only want the richest and giant corps to pay more, dupe. BTW, if you count ALL taxes and fees, everyone pays between 20 and 30%. iT'S ALMOST A FLAT TAX SYSTEM, WITH ALL TTHE NEW (oops) wealth going to the richest. 60% my ass.We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?
We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?
We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?
We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?
Imagine (hypothetically with just random figures to prove a point), you're in one country and 20% of your wages go in taxes, and 10% goes towards your healthcare.
Then you're in another country and 25% of your wages go to taxes and the healthcare is included with in this.
In one country you pay higher taxes, the govt is "stealing your hard earned money", but everyone gets healthcare.
In the other country you pay lower taxes, but a chance you'll get fucked over if you have a problem.
Which country are you better of in?
See that's the problem with you people. YOU have been benefitting from it so for some reason that means it's perfect. The reality is that every cost of living expense has gone up while wages have remained flat. The middle class is shrinking. Poor people can't afford even the most basic services. At this rate, a time will come when you can't afford it either.not sure what you are talking about , I and my family have been benefiting from it for as long as I can remember. The sytem worked well the way it was and the care was excellent.Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.
Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.
Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?
WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems
"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."
Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.
Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.
How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?
Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.
Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?
WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems
"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."
Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.
Where is the evidence that healthcare costs have increased because of ObamaCare? It doesn't exist. They have been increasing since before ObamaCare.Pre-Obamacare, there already were health care services for poor people through state assistance programs. The most efficient way to extend coverage to the 40 million or so of Americans without health care was to augment those State healthcare systems with more Federal money. Instead we got Obamacare shoved down our throat, we've spent over a billion f*kn taxpayer dollars on a website, We still have 30 million or so uncovered, And we have health care costs rising every month due to the inefficiencies caused by having to comply with Obamacare. As my kids used to say EPIC FAIL. Here is my 4 point plan to fix it. 1. Scrap Obamacare. 2. Pump up the State Health Care assistance programs. 3. Crack down on malpractice suits and penalize lawyers with BIG $$ penalties for frivolous suits. 4. Penalize drug companies who overcharge for drugs.
There is nothing ACA has done to increase premiums. Nothing. That's just the nature of capitalism.you are correct, the time is coming that I wont be able to afford it. And that is because I am being forced to pay for someone elses insurance along with my own. Without the ACA f-ing up our premiums, we all could have kept affording it just as we have been since forever.See that's the problem with you people. YOU have been benefitting from it so for some reason that means it's perfect. The reality is that every cost of living expense has gone up while wages have remained flat. The middle class is shrinking. Poor people can't afford even the most basic services. At this rate, a time will come when you can't afford it either.not sure what you are talking about , I and my family have been benefiting from it for as long as I can remember. The sytem worked well the way it was and the care was excellent.Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.
Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.
Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?
WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems
"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."
Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.
But the left wont be happy until those that have it now, buy it for those that dont have it.
We are over taxed now...After all the taxes we pay now, income, payroll SS, sales, property, excise, fees, etc the average American is relived of an average of 60% of their earnings...You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.
Worse outcomes? For whom?
And yet you lefties want more.
Who is greedy?
Imagine (hypothetically with just random figures to prove a point), you're in one country and 20% of your wages go in taxes, and 10% goes towards your healthcare.
Then you're in another country and 25% of your wages go to taxes and the healthcare is included with in this.
In one country you pay higher taxes, the govt is "stealing your hard earned money", but everyone gets healthcare.
In the other country you pay lower taxes, but a chance you'll get fucked over if you have a problem.
Which country are you better of in?
In the US the government is owned by the corporations and as a result America is a kleptocracy. Before any system will work we need to rid America of the plutocrats like the French did in 1798.
Stopping fraud is simple. Prison, but because the plutocrats own the government criminal prosecutions never happen, It's up to the people to rid America of the criminal elite.
I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?
Keep your fingers in your ears then. It's the New BS GOP way...Idiot. All proven many times. Change the channel.Keep your fingers in your ears, dupe. He said that BEFORE the corrupt W WORLD DEPRESSION, dupe. Etc etc. Sorry about reality.OBAMA said by the end of his first term. You kiss his ass no matter what. That's the sign of a functional moron. It's HIS words and you still cover for him. Pucker up.
Really? So once again... Obama the Messiah who told us : "This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
Obama's Nomination Victory Speech In St. Paul
was stymied by W's world depression? How can that be? He's the Messiah. You smell nothing wrong with him!
Here join these other Obama worshippers... Is Barack Obama the Messiah?
Just a note... where are your links????
Not by you or anyone else.
The middle of ANOTHER Pub Great Depression is not the time for immediate reform. The GW reform IS beginning, just like he said duh. Not stopped at all.Unqualified black man. You're up to 90% chance racist lol. Yup, everyone saw that total meltdown coming lol...great job, corrupt Boooshies and ignoramus dupes...your brains seem to only be able to understand bumper sticker bs, and that's the way you like it.Keep your fingers in your ears, dupe. He said that BEFORE the corrupt W WORLD DEPRESSION, dupe. Etc etc. Sorry about reality.OBAMA said by the end of his first term. You kiss his ass no matter what. That's the sign of a functional moron. It's HIS words and you still cover for him. Pucker up.
Just another example of an unqualified black man in a government job. If he's as smart as you claim, wouldn't he have seen it coming. If he didn't, tells me he isn't that smart.
He also said the $887 billion stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%. He did that after becoming President. We both know how that worked out. We both know you'll cover for him.
Loss of GDP was estimated at 3-4% when Obama said 8%- turned out to be 9%. But don't worry about reality- go with the bs bumper sticker, fool. Keep voting against yourself, family and friends. At least you're in the White Party, right?
That's it? That's your explanation for the Messiah NOT keeping his pledge?
My goodness I don't understand how you can have any faith left in Obama after he has broken so many promises!
What happened to the simple pledge when he told us..."This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
and a little old thing like the GDP being less stops the Messiah???
Oh ye of little faith! Sounds like Bush had more power then the Messiah!
YOUR use of messiah shows only YOU to be a true believer, in your case of total RW BS...
ACA is only a framework, to be added to and tinkered with forever, dupe.All of which can be added to ACA. Duh.Fixing our "shitty" health care system entails undoing the damage done to health care by FDR. Wage controls and tax policy made health coverage a tax free compensation item. That started the ball rolling toward the utter government dominance and inefficiency we have today. Here is how to fix it:
- Get rid of Obamacare, STAT.
- Decouple catastrophic care insurance from prepaid services (i.e., the check up and routine test co-pays).
- Make health insurance a personal tax deduction instead of a corporate.
- Get rid of state barriers to competition.
- Unlimited health savings accounts for paying for routing services and medication - get rid of the insurance middle man.
- Tort reform to stop scum sucking lawyers from bleeding out doctors (John Edwards got rich by driving OB/GYNs out of business...).
- Reforms which enable routine care clinics in retail environment - such as a drugstore, Walmart etc.
- Get rid of Federal involvement in health care; return the money to states and taxpayer to take care of their own health care.
- Credits for veterans and retired people to purchase their own health care (graduallly unwwind the latter as younger people are able to save more in HSAs).
No, they can't. The ACA is a Centralized Planning Obamanation. One can't use Totalitarian Control to order people to be free.
I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?
Our health care system is very good.
It's our insurance system that is a mess.
What we had before need adjusting.It was shitty before.
Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.
How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?
Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.
Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?
WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems
"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."
Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.
View attachment 66120
I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......
*****CHUCKLE*****
These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are
Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system."Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.
"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.
Except in some European countries they have not for profit insurance companies and they are able to stay in business.
ok...I'm curious....Which ones?
BTW why are we mentioning insurance companies in countries where the government insures its citizen's health?.....
Switzerland, for example
Healthcare in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance,"
"Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans."
