RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[francoHFW]

Premiums in some blue states actually went down...Of course we didn't have Pub scams before.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The methods by which health insurance is regulated and sold is the problem.
Fixes
1. eliminate all barriers to competition.
2. allow insurers to sell plans across state lines
3. ban "captive" marketplaces.
4 Insurance companies that don't wish to play by the same rules as everyone else, can pound sand.
5 eliminate all federal coverage mandates. For example...it is not logical for a woman to have to buy coverage for testicular ailments for herself.
6. allow the insured to have at least some control on their coverage choices.
7 eliminate group policies that tie one's ability to be insured to their employment status.
8 make possible the option for high deductible catastrophic insurance policies for those who can be cash patients for regular doctor visits and minor ailments that require the attention of a physician.
All of the above would increase competition and thus lower prices to consumers. It would also cause insurance companies to adjust their business models from stock value sensitive companies to ones that concentrate on acquiring and keeping business.
One wrinkle....Competition usually results in an industry which will close ranks in order to protect itself from the potential of falling profits. Often this leads to consolidation. Companies will either aggressively try to buy out their competition or agree to merge.
That must be heavily scrutinized by the appropriate federal agencies. The bottom line is that no merger or acquisition that would reduce competition or reduce consumer choice will be approved......

I don't feel like responding to this all in one post, so break it up if you want my response. Or don't, I don't care.

then respond to one point at a time..
I'm not doing the work for you.
My posts are entitlement free.

Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.

These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.

YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.

The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....
Worse outcomes? For whom?

 

[francoHFW]

Pre-Obamacare, there already were health care services for poor people through state assistance programs. The most efficient way to extend coverage to the 40 million or so of Americans without health care was to augment those State healthcare systems with more Federal money. Instead we got Obamacare shoved down our throat, we've spent over a billion f*kn taxpayer dollars on a website, We still have 30 million or so uncovered, And we have health care costs rising every month due to the inefficiencies caused by having to comply with Obamacare. As my kids used to say EPIC FAIL. Here is my 4 point plan to fix it. 1. Scrap Obamacare. 2. Pump up the State Health Care assistance programs. 3. Crack down on malpractice suits and penalize lawyers with BIG $$ penalties for frivolous suits. 4. Penalize drug companies who overcharge for drugs.

Where is the evidence that healthcare costs have increased because of ObamaCare? It doesn't exist. They have been increasing since before ObamaCare.

yes. those reporting their increased premiums and larger deductibles are all racists who hate Obama and his shitty health insurance plan....
Yeah, that MUST be it.....They demanded higher premiums because they hate Obama....
Such shit.

Actually, they live in red states where the old policies were cheap scams, their exchanges suq, and they also pay more because they insist on no Medicaid expansion, so they're still paying for the poor.

Another pile of obfuscation.

You need a diagram?

 

[francoHFW]

I don't feel like responding to this all in one post, so break it up if you want my response. Or don't, I don't care.

then respond to one point at a time..
I'm not doing the work for you.
My posts are entitlement free.

Good ideas, some of them. Add them to ACA.

These ideas are counter intuitive to ACA...
ACA is a abject failure. In fact the plan was set up for failure.
The Obama admin knew they could not enact a single payer system. The most supportive of democrats saw any attempt at this saw it as political suicide and they made that abundantly clear to Obama.
And that will always be the means by which a single payer system will never become law here. Too many of us don't want it and we can vote out of office anyone that tries to ram this down our throats.

YEAH! We want to pay 3x as much as the UK with worse outcomes! ACA will work but it will take the end of GOP/insurer sabotage and some time.

The UK? HUH? I thought socialized medicine was free?.....
Worse outcomes? For whom?

You pay taxes. THE PEOPLE.

 

[thereisnospoon]

View attachment 66120

I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......

*****CHUCKLE*****

These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are

Obamacare sticker shock: Insurers propose rate hikes for 2016

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Obamacare sticker shock: Insurers propose rate hikes for 2016

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

 

[Flopper]

You don't know a damned thing about what poor people can't afford. Medicare is free as are the prescriptions they prescribe. County clinics are free, and drug companies offer free or reduced prices on drugs based on income. Emergency rooms are free as well. Even poor people can afford FREE!

Medicare is for Americans aged 65 and over. Part A is free; Part B requires a premium, and covers some medications, with a small co-pay. In order for all medications to be covered, the individual has to apply for Part D.

That's MedicARE.


You're talking about MedicAID.

You'd have a lot more credibility if you knew the difference.

I had a brain fart and I sure did mean to type Medicaid instead of Medicare. Change the word and then tell me I am wrong.

Fair enough, but emergency rooms are not free.

They are free to the poor people that go to them. I agree that they are not a cost effective way to deliver healthcare. Too many people go there for a hangnail or a summer cold.

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

 

[easyt65]

If Obama had not lied and the liberals had not forced a minority-supported plan down the throats of the majority that opposed the ACA we would not have this shitty health care system now.

 

[frigidweirdo]

View attachment 66120

I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......

*****CHUCKLE*****

These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are

Obamacare sticker shock: Insurers propose rate hikes for 2016

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.

Except in some European countries they have not for profit insurance companies and they are able to stay in business.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare so it's utterly retarded to blame ObamaCare for it. The prices of prescriptions and treatments would be the same without ACA. At least ACA has increased the number of insured Americans despite its shortcomings.

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

Many consider me to be conservative and, as is, I think our health care system in the USA is fucked up beyond repair. And it was that way even before the ACA fucked it up even worse than it was.

The USA should go to a single payer system IMO. There are other countries that brag about their universal heath care. The USA could make them all look silly.

Single payer is impossible...
First, there exists many fiscal and financial barriers. The cost of insure 320 million people with first dollar coverage or even a $10,000 yearly deductible would likely be more than the entire GDP of the nation.
The logistical costs and efforts would be gargantuan.....An unknown number, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands of new federal employees would have have to hired just to administer the system. That would also require the creation of a new and very large federal bureaucracy. And with that a bunch of grossly over paid federal mangers and executives.
The plan in practice is not practical. There is no way on earth the federal government would ever get everyone to agree to a part of the captive market which could not have in it an "opt out" clause.
Imagine the division created by a provision that allowed those who wished to remain on their current private health plan to opt out?.....Of course the opt out would also include exemption from having to pay for it.
And we all know how likely that is....NIL......Taxes would have to be increased by unimaginable amounts. New taxes would no doubt be created. And looking at Europe, as confiscatory as taxation is, it STILL is not enough to support their systems.
Lastly. For any US house member NOT representing the most protected democrat forever district, single payer is political suicide.
Do you really think that house member or Senator in their most recent campaign that just barely eked out a win is going to be able to go back home with "single payer" and still be around after the next election?......

 

[thereisnospoon]

View attachment 66120

I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......

*****CHUCKLE*****

These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are

Obamacare sticker shock: Insurers propose rate hikes for 2016

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.

Except in some European countries they have not for profit insurance companies and they are able to stay in business.

ok...I'm curious....Which ones?
BTW why are we mentioning insurance companies in countries where the government insures its citizen's health?.....

 

[Billy000]

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?

 

[frigidweirdo]

If Obama had not lied and the liberals had not forced a minority-supported plan down the throats of the majority that opposed the ACA we would not have this shitty health care system now.

It was shitty before.

 

[frigidweirdo]

View attachment 66120

I thought the health care system was fixed back in 2009 when the progressives signed the ACA without having to read it and now you're saying it isn't so and you want those of us who were told to sit in the back of the bus to offer some sort of advice?........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ A little late don't you think?......

*****CHUCKLE*****

These lefties never gave a single thought to the details of ACA. All they cared about was "the win".....Well now since the thing is an abject failure, they are

Lol this article offers no evidence that these increases are because of Obamacare.

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

Now the rate hikes ARE a direct result of ACA.....Our plan changed before the law too effect.
Now, if insurance companies were not for profit, they would not be able to stay in business. Period.

Except in some European countries they have not for profit insurance companies and they are able to stay in business.

ok...I'm curious....Which ones?
BTW why are we mentioning insurance companies in countries where the government insures its citizen's health?.....

Switzerland, for example

Healthcare in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance,"

"Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans."

 

[Flopper]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

The methods by which health insurance is regulated and sold is the problem.
Fixes
1. eliminate all barriers to competition.
2. allow insurers to sell plans across state lines
3. ban "captive" marketplaces.
4 Insurance companies that don't wish to play by the same rules as everyone else, can pound sand.
5 eliminate all federal coverage mandates. For example...it is not logical for a woman to have to buy coverage for testicular ailments for herself.
6. allow the insured to have at least some control on their coverage choices.
7 eliminate group policies that tie one's ability to be insured to their employment status.
8 make possible the option for high deductible catastrophic insurance policies for those who can be cash patients for regular doctor visits and minor ailments that require the attention of a physician.
All of the above would increase competition and thus lower prices to consumers. It would also cause insurance companies to adjust their business models from stock value sensitive companies to ones that concentrate on acquiring and keeping business.
One wrinkle....Competition usually results in an industry which will close ranks in order to protect itself from the potential of falling profits. Often this leads to consolidation. Companies will either aggressively try to buy out their competition or agree to merge.
That must be heavily scrutinized by the appropriate federal agencies. The bottom line is that no merger or acquisition that would reduce competition or reduce consumer choice will be approved......

I've seen the proposal from republicans in congress and presidential candidates that insurance companies should be allowed to operate across state lines. There is nothing in Obamacare or other federal law that prevents the companies from operating regionally or nationally. The problem is the state laws and state insurance commission have setup all kinds of barriers. Secondly, it's expensive and risky for a company to expand into a new region because they have to setup networks which means contracting with local healthcare providers, creating policies that meet state as well as federal law, meet state reserve requirements, provide appeal processes, and set up local offices to serve accounts. If the the company is going sell to employers, then it has have more than just health insurance to offer customers..

Are republicans saying they want to pass federal laws to override state health insurance laws and provides subsidies to bring in more completion into states?

 

[frigidweirdo]

"Insurers say they want to hike rates because enrollees are going to the doctor, getting lab work and filling prescriptions more than they had originally anticipated.

"We've seen a great pent-up demand for services," said Aaron Billger, spokesman for Highmark, a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee offering plans in Pennsylvania, Delaware and West Virginia. Enrollees in Obamacare exchange plans use more healthcare than those in job-based policies, he noted."
From the linked article. since I was kind enough to break this part out for you, can you understand it now or do you still require remedial reading classes.

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?

Viable for some, not for all. That was part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is that corruption means 30% or more of the money goes on corruption.

Drugs cost more in the US than anywhere else, why? Because they know they can charge Americans loads because of the system, but know they can't do the same in other countries.

And people defend this nonsense.

 

[Billy000]

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?

Viable for some, not for all. That was part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is that corruption means 30% or more of the money goes on corruption.

Drugs cost more in the US than anywhere else, why? Because they know they can charge Americans loads because of the system, but know they can't do the same in other countries.

And people defend this nonsense.

Yeah I don't think anyone argues the quality of healthcare itself in the US is bad. The problem with it is its affordability and cost to the American consumers.

 

[Flopper]

Yeah from an increase in DEMAND from more people being insured. The hikes aren't because of things in the law, the hikes are because more people are seeking services. That, is the problem, with have a for profit healthcare system.

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?

Viable for some, not for all. That was part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is that corruption means 30% or more of the money goes on corruption.

Drugs cost more in the US than anywhere else, why? Because they know they can charge Americans loads because of the system, but know they can't do the same in other countries.

And people defend this nonsense.

Drug prices in the US are 3 times what they are in Britain, 6 times what they are in most other European countries and 16 times the price in India. The why is easy to understand. Other countries allow generics to be sold in place of brand name drugs. In the US, brand names are protected by patents for 10 years and if the manufacturer makes improvements which can be just packaging, the patent protection can be extended another 5 years. We are depend on completion in the US to keep down the price of drugs and the FDA eliminates any completion. In effect we are subsidizing the world's cost of developing new drugs and providing drug companies most of their profits.

To add insult to injury, the drug company that is selling you their brand name drug at $300 a month is manufacturing the drug in India, Pakistan or various European countries for pennies. If the drug is to be sold in the US, it is packaged with the US brand name. If it's to be sold in other counters, it's packaged with a different name and sold at a 1/3 to 1/10 the US cost and considered a generic.

To put it very simply, the US consumer is getting screwed and we are paying the cost in higher premiums and co-pays.

 

[Billy000]

either you really are not smart enough to see that the ACA is causing rates to go up for some, but not others, or you are one of those with the subsidy that are sucking of the labors of others to be provided with your care.
Im not totally sure which one it is, might be that your not being bright enough is forcing you into a low paying job.

How do you not see the point of the article? Costs have gone up because demand has gone up. More people are insured. That is the problem with a for profit system.

Either way you still haven't explained on any level why our healthcare system was acceptable before ObamaCare. Christ how hard is it for you to answer that?

If more people have coverage, how the hell would demand for services make a difference. With more insureds, there should in theory be more dollars in the overall pool from which the insurer can draw to pay claims.
The problem lies with the basic concept of ACA. In it the White House and democrats LIED when they claimed it control the "cost" of healthcare. No. No it does NOT.. ACA is designed to control "price" There is a huge difference between the two.
The fact is that despite the increased number of those covered, far too many are paying just a fraction of the actual cost of their insurance, or they are paying nothing.
And THAT is the reason the costs to those insured under legitimate paying plans have seen their premiums and deductibles increase.....dramatically.....

I'm sick of debating ObamaCare. Why do you think our healthcare system before it was viable despite all the evidence of the contrary?

Viable for some, not for all. That was part of the problem.

The other part of the problem is that corruption means 30% or more of the money goes on corruption.

Drugs cost more in the US than anywhere else, why? Because they know they can charge Americans loads because of the system, but know they can't do the same in other countries.

And people defend this nonsense.

Drug prices in the US are 3 times what they are in Britain, 6 times what they are in most other European countries and 16 times the price in India. The why is easy to understand. Other countries allow generics to be sold in place of brand name drugs. In the US, brand names are protected by patents for 10 years and if the manufacturer makes improvements which can be just packaging, the patent protection can be extended another 5 years. We are depend on completion in the US to keep down the price of drugs and the FDA eliminates any completion. In effect we are subsidizing the world's cost of developing new drugs and providing drug companies most of their profits.

To add insult to injury, the drug company that is selling you their brand name drug at $300 a month is manufacturing the drug in India, Pakistan or various European countries for pennies. If the drug is to be sold in the US, it is packaged with the US brand name. If it's to be sold in other counters, it's packaged with a different name and sold at a 1/3 to 1/10 the US cost and considered a generic.

To put it very simply, the US consumer is getting screwed and we are paying the cost in higher premiums and co-pays.

You need to make a thread on this.

 

[francoHFW]

Medicare is for Americans aged 65 and over. Part A is free; Part B requires a premium, and covers some medications, with a small co-pay. In order for all medications to be covered, the individual has to apply for Part D.

That's MedicARE.


You're talking about MedicAID.

You'd have a lot more credibility if you knew the difference.

I had a brain fart and I sure did mean to type Medicaid instead of Medicare. Change the word and then tell me I am wrong.

Fair enough, but emergency rooms are not free.

They are free to the poor people that go to them. I agree that they are not a cost effective way to deliver healthcare. Too many people go there for a hangnail or a summer cold.

Exactly. But if more people have access to health insurance (and if more clinics had the common sense to stay open on nights and weekends), there'd be more efficient ways for people to be treated for minor problems.

Urgent care centers in hospitals and clinics are popping up all over the country. The good ones have access to much of the diagnostic capabilities of emergency rooms but have far less overhead because they don't deal with the trauma and life and death emergencies.

One of the major reasons people go to emergency rooms is they can often accomplish more in 3 or 4 hours than your family doctor and associated specialist will accomplish in a month.

In so many clinic environments, a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem can take weeks to diagnosis as the patient waits for appointments with specialists, labs, diagnostic imaging etc and those weeks can be critical to good outcome.

Bernie got 10 billion in ACA for low cost clinics.