SB1062, Hobby Lobs...Religious Exemptions Q: Do Corporations have Religious Beliefs?

[rightwinger]

Corporations are people, my friend. That's the line, as we have all heard it. Citizens United basically affirmed it.

Generally, this has been applied to political speech, nonetheless, it provides Freedom of Speech to Corporations -- but the question is: Are Corporations persons that can have a sincerely held religious belief?

In the recent mishmash of that ill-begotten AZ bill SB1062, one aspect was little touched on, mainly this:

See that there? What has been defined as a "Person" was amended to not only include "a religious assembly or institution" but also:

"ANY INDIVIDUAL, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, CORPORATION, CHURCH, RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY, OR INSTITUTION, ESTATE, TRUST, FOUNDATION OR OTHER LEGAL ENTITY."

SB1062 - 512R - I Ver

The definition there is far broader in scope and applicability in that Corporations, et al, could have discriminated if they held sincerely held religious beliefs.

Which brings us to the recent SCOTUS cases up soon involving Hobby Lobby v Sebelius - and the other entities that are suing to be able to deny specific contraceptive coverage on religious beliefs grounds.

We are at crossroad where not only are for-profit corporate commercial entities and organizations considered to be persons regarding Freedom of Speech, but now the trend is to carve out laws to give these Corporations Freedom of Religion.

How do Corporations, fictitious persons under the law - practice religion? Can they go to Church? Do they partake in sacraments?
Should they be protected fully as a person under the cherished Free Exercise clause?


Do you think this trend to be something good for America?

I love a corporation like Hobby Lobby standing up for their right not to provide birth control services through their healthcare while they stock their shelves with products from China where they have mandatory abortions

 

[vanityofvanitys]

Isn't this whole battle between the govt and those who want to excluded abortion pills, contraceptives, etc., isn't it really simply that the majority of this country, and certainly the masses on the left --- they all wish we would have less babies to deal with, especially unwed mothers and the poor? It's not about the cost of this meager portion of the bill is anyone's concern? The govt could easily eliminate that portion and make peace at little cost. But this world thinks economic, social and emotional situations are as bad as we can tolerate right now --- adding thousands of additional economic burdens (a.k.a. poor babies) to the mix is neither wise nor desirable.

I, of course, think this nation short sighted

 

[The Rabbi]

In case anyone missed it:

Prior to the mandate, Hobby Lobby's health insurance plan actually covered Plan B and Ella.

Didya all read that?

So their religious objections seemed to be tied to something that happened in 2012. hmmm :think:

Irrelevant.
Next.

 

[paperview]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

Sharia Law! Sharia Law!

 

[dblack]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

Me too. Maybe it would give us pause to reflect on the core problem, namely the presumption that government should dictate how companies compensate employees.

 

[rightwinger]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

So Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit is based on the company’s “firm, fixed, and sincere” opposition to contraception and abortion. That opposition is such an intrinsic principle that it would be impossible for Hobby Lobby to comply with the law’s mandate for gender equality in preventive health insurance.

And yet this firm, fixed, sincere conviction has never hindered Hobby Lobby from building its business on a foundation of goods manufactured in China.

That doesn’t just cast doubt on Hobby Lobby’s sincerity — it demolishes it completely. It proves that Hobby Lobby’s religious conscience claim is disingenuous hogwash.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

No one is talking about neglecting federal law.
More talking out of your ass.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

Left wing blog is fail.

 

[rightwinger]

And, that doesn’t even touch the fact that China’s cheap labor conditions are such that no American would be willing to work them (some are even equated with slavery) … or the fact that China greatly restricts religious liberty (the very issue Hobby Lobby claims is under attack here), … or the fact that their numbers on infanticide, orphans, and child-abandonment are abysmal.

Those concerns have never been an issue for Hobby Lobby when it came to doing business with and in China. They only became deeply held convictions recently, when it came to doing business with the insurer covering its workers.

 

[rightwinger]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

Left wing blog is fail.

Not really

It highlights the sincerity of a Corporations religious convictions

They are sincere in forcing their religious beliefs on employees but not to the point it impacts their corporate profits. A corporations true religion

 

[dblack]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

Left wing blog is fail.

Not really

It highlights the sincerity of a Corporations religious convictions

So, our rights hinge on our "sincerity"?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Considering that the Catholic church is widely considered to be the largest corporation on Earth, it isn't too far fetched to think that a corporation can become a religion. Corporatism is basically a religion on Wall Street now.

Maybe I'll start a new religion and call it Corporatology- the belief that corporations are successful because they are ran by supreme beings from outer space. Corporatology states that taxation and regulations of any kind are a threat to religious freedom, and the corporate gods who pay monthly tithes to my church can cite the 1st Amendment to escape the crushing taxes and EPA burdens imposed on them by an unworthy society.

Corporatology.

I like that. I really like that.

Hold on!

I want to be involved. Let me run the Japanese branch of the religion. Even people who don't believe in gods(s) throw money at shrines and temples there.

Copolatoroji!

 

[dblack]

Abortions are legal. If someone's insurance pays for it, why shouldn't the hospital, a corporation, be forced to perform one?

Why should they?

 

[natstew]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

So Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit is based on the company’s “firm, fixed, and sincere” opposition to contraception and abortion. That opposition is such an intrinsic principle that it would be impossible for Hobby Lobby to comply with the law’s mandate for gender equality in preventive health insurance.

And yet this firm, fixed, sincere conviction has never hindered Hobby Lobby from building its business on a foundation of goods manufactured in China.

That doesn’t just cast doubt on Hobby Lobby’s sincerity — it demolishes it completely. It proves that Hobby Lobby’s religious conscience claim is disingenuous hogwash.

rightwinger, your avatar fit's you, you're as dumb as Ed Norton.

 

[rightwinger]

Hobby Lobby is fine with forced abortions and mandatory contraception in China, but balks at voluntary contraception for American women

So Hobby Lobby’s lawsuit is based on the company’s “firm, fixed, and sincere” opposition to contraception and abortion. That opposition is such an intrinsic principle that it would be impossible for Hobby Lobby to comply with the law’s mandate for gender equality in preventive health insurance.

And yet this firm, fixed, sincere conviction has never hindered Hobby Lobby from building its business on a foundation of goods manufactured in China.

That doesn’t just cast doubt on Hobby Lobby’s sincerity — it demolishes it completely. It proves that Hobby Lobby’s religious conscience claim is disingenuous hogwash.

rightwinger, your avatar fit's you, you're as dumb as Ed Norton.

Hey Ralphie boy!

Care to refute what I posted?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Which is why it made it to the Supreme COurt? Maybe you shoulod be a judge instead of a loud mouth lo-lo loser on a message board.
There is a difference between providing a salary an employee can use any way he wants vs being forced to provide something you are morally opposed to.
HL probably opposes drinking alcohol, but they know their employees will likely go out and buy it if they want it. Because they are free to do so.
Only statist fools like you oppose freedom.

There's no difference between providing an employee a piece of paper called a paycheck, that can be used to buy contraception,

and a piece of paper called an insurance policy, that can be used to buy contraception.

And in case you don't know this, the employee CHOOSES whether or not to acquire the actual contraception in both cases.

one is wages the employee earned by his or herself; the other comes from a pool paid into by many. of course there is a difference

you're too stupid for words

Wrong. As an employee you earn your healthcare insurance the same as you earn your salary.

 

[The Rabbi]

There's no difference between providing an employee a piece of paper called a paycheck, that can be used to buy contraception,

and a piece of paper called an insurance policy, that can be used to buy contraception.

And in case you don't know this, the employee CHOOSES whether or not to acquire the actual contraception in both cases.

one is wages the employee earned by his or herself; the other comes from a pool paid into by many. of course there is a difference

you're too stupid for words

Wrong. As an employee you earn your healthcare insurance the same as you earn your salary.

Whut?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think when I think about it corporations can have religious beliefs.
While I think the idea that the are fighting against birth control and what not is stupid. They have that right. I also disagree with the mandate of aca, but at the same time these things in healthcare need to be covered period.
I'd say everything is covered and if hobby lobby doesn't like it they can not hand out healthcare. The choice is theirs.

It's not a choice. They want to provide health coverage. But they dont want to provide the health coverage that is mandated. Their only choice is to provide coverage that offends them or not provide any and pay a penalty. That isn't freedom. That isnt a reasonable compromise.

They can get out of the business. They have that freedom.

 

[rightwinger]

Left wing blog is fail.

Not really

It highlights the sincerity of a Corporations religious convictions

So, our rights hinge on our "sincerity"?

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern