"Senator Kennedy, I Refuse to be Shackled by Your Question."

[rightwinger]

He has to answer yes or no on this bill. Why can't the "experts" called to testify answer it yes or no?

Because it depends

 

[Rawley]

Because it depends

Did you listen? There is no "depends" in this bill. Yes or no - unfettered abortions up until the time of birth.

 

[meaner gene]

He has to answer yes or no on this bill. Why can't the "experts" called to testify answer it yes or no?

Just look what happened when senators had to answer yes or no to the Authorization to use Military force in Iraq.

They interpreted yes, as an unqualified yes.

 

[meaner gene]

Did you listen? There is no "depends" in this bill. Yes or no - unfettered abortions up until the time of birth.

That's how we got into trouble with the Authorization to use Force in Iraq.

It allowed Bush to fabricate a qualification.

 

[Leo123]

All the one's that don't include exceptions. Or whose exceptions aren't clearly defined.

Wrong, the life of the mother is an exception in every State. That will naturally include a Dr. opinion.

 

[meaner gene]

Wrong, the life of the mother is an exception in every State. That will naturally include a Dr. opinion.

It cited the example of a pregnant woman with stage 3 melanoma who was denied both abortion care and cancer treatment because clinicians couldn’t confirm whether the law’s life of the mother exception applied.

When asked whether any states had well-written health exceptions, legal experts had no examples and added that many of the states’ laws restricting abortion mirror one another.

 

[meaner gene]

Wrong, the life of the mother is an exception in every State. That will naturally include a Dr. opinion.

Providers challenging the ban argue that this language doesn’t permit abortion care when the condition is “substantial but reversible,” “less than substantial but irreversible,” or both “substantial and irreversible” but not considered “major.” Their lawsuit questions how doctors are expected to navigate this type of confusion.

 

[Leo123]

Providers challenging the ban argue that this language doesn’t permit abortion care when the condition is “substantial but reversible,” “less than substantial but irreversible,” or both “substantial and irreversible” but not considered “major.” Their lawsuit questions how doctors are expected to navigate this type of confusion.

What 'condition?' What is 'abortion care?' The rest of your post makes no sense. Either the mother's life is at risk from giving birth or it isn't.

 

[80zephyr]

Not correct. While it seems O.K. to ask a question that can be answered with a yes or no, few questions on controversies have such binary positions.
That an answer either way, requires an explanation of their answer.

Just think about bringing your car to the mechanic and asking him "Is my car worth fixing?" Yes/No.

No matter which way they answered, you would have required a full explanation for their answer, and not just an acceptance of it.

How do you explain a yes answer when the question is "do you support a woman's right to abort until just before birth of a baby?"

 

[martybegan]

This is where medical opinions come in. Why not leave it up to the doctor whether the harm to the mother, justifies aborting a non-viable fetus. And even the harm to the mother from the birth of a viable fetus.

There are many complications from childbirth, as well as fetal development problems that make fetal survival after birth impossible. And it should up to doctors and not politicians to make that determination.

The laws don't take viability into account. After viability in NY only the doctor's opinion on health of the mother matters, and you can get corrupt doctors, and they are protected by this law.

Harm can be "I may get hives after giving birth". Health is not defined in this law.

C-sections remove almost all those complications, and for a viable fetus is almost 100% of the time a more safe method of removing it for the life of the mother than an abortion at that point.

We are talking how laws are written, when we get to this point politics takes over medicine.

 

[Rawley]

Just look what happened when senators had to answer yes or no to the Authorization to use Military force in Iraq.

They interpreted yes, as an unqualified yes.

1,000% RAtty Kudos

 

[meaner gene]

The laws don't take viability into account. After viability in NY only the doctor's opinion on health of the mother matters, and you can get corrupt doctors, and they are protected by this law.

Harm can be "I may get hives after giving birth". Health is not defined in this law.

C-sections remove almost all those complications, and for a viable fetus is almost 100% of the time a more safe method of removing it for the life of the mother than an abortion at that point.

We are talking how laws are written, when we get to this point politics takes over medicine.

For deaths directly related to the cesarean section, . The mean was 27 deaths per 100,000 cesarean sections

the maternal mortality rate was 22.3 deaths per 100,000 live births,
when 1,205 women died from maternal causes

Late term abortion mortality rate 6.7 per 100,000.

During the period from 1998–2010, of approximately 16.1 million abortion procedures, 108 women died, for a mortality rate of 0.7 deaths per 100,000 procedures overall

Farming, forestry, and fishing and hunting top the list of America's deadliest jobs, a recent analysis shows. Those professions have the highest rate of employee fatalities, at 18.6 deaths per 100,000 workers


Clearly childbirth is a dangerous occupation.

The numbers means 1,000+ women's lives could be saved by the liberal application of abortion.

 

[meaner gene]

1,000% RAtty Kudos

Is that an unqualified 1,000% or just 900%

 

[Rawley]

Is that an unqualified 1,000% or just 900%

10,000% Ratty. Beyond absurd analogy, even for you.

 

[martybegan]

For deaths directly related to the cesarean section, . The mean was 27 deaths per 100,000 cesarean sections

the maternal mortality rate was 22.3 deaths per 100,000 live births,
when 1,205 women died from maternal causes

Late term abortion mortality rate 6.7 per 100,000.

During the period from 1998–2010, of approximately 16.1 million abortion procedures, 108 women died, for a mortality rate of 0.7 deaths per 100,000 procedures overall

Farming, forestry, and fishing and hunting top the list of America's deadliest jobs, a recent analysis shows. Those professions have the highest rate of employee fatalities, at 18.6 deaths per 100,000 workers


Clearly childbirth is a dangerous occupation.

The numbers means 1,000+ women's lives could be saved by the liberal application of abortion.

Where did you get those numbers from?

27 per 100k in the United States?

And our species could end by the same liberal application.

 

[meaner gene]

10,000% Ratty. Beyond absurd analogy, even for you.

Actually it's spot on. It's like a jury verdict, where they only have two choices. And "guilty" doesn't mean there was no doubt about their guilt.
Yet another example.

 

[meaner gene]

Where did you get those numbers from?

27 per 100k in the United States?

And our species could end by the same liberal application.

Actually it's probably more. That's from both American and European numbers, where America has one of the highest maternal fatality rates of first world countries.

Maternal mortality ratio Comparison - The World Factbook

www.cia.gov

 

[martybegan]

Actually it's probably more. That's from both American and European numbers, where America has one of the highest maternal fatality rates of first world countries.

Maternal mortality ratio Comparison - The World Factbook

www.cia.gov

Belarus has the lowest?

LOL

 

[meaner gene]

And our species could end by the same liberal application.

I don't think we'll have to worry. I'm sure the other 6 billion people will sustain the population explosion without our help.

 

[martybegan]

I don't think we'll have to worry. I'm sure the other 6 billion people will sustain the population explosion without our help.

Actually we are in population regression in the west.