Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[alang1216]

I never knew either man so I don't know if that ever happened. Mohammed claimed to have seen God/Allah but it is difficult to believe the Qu'ran has anything at all in common with the God revealed in the Biblical scriptures and known to billions of Christians. Joseph Smith claimed to have seen God as a youth, and to have received the golden plates, basis for the Book of Mormon, from the Angel Moroni. The plates were returned to Moroni after Smith translated them. I don't see much of the God of the Bible in the Book of Mormon either.

It is not given to me to judge the faith of anyone but only their actions. Islam has contributed quite a bit to the world, especially long ago, but its extremists are not only not Christian but are clear in their intent to stamp out JudeoChristianity entirely. That cannot come from the God of the Bible. The Church of Latter Day Saints has also been beneficial to many of its people, but also has its dark side that merits caution.

Seemed to me as a very young boy that it would be simple for God to prove he spoke to someone. Just have that someone say look for a supernova in Virgo next week. The fact He doesn't shows he either doesn't want a spokesman or he doesn't exist, IMHO. Either way, it says to me that if someone says they know what God wants, thinks, or feels, they are deluded.

 

[Foxfyre]

Seemed to me as a very young boy that it would be simple for God to prove he spoke to someone. Just have that someone say look for a supernova in Virgo next week. The fact He doesn't shows he either doesn't want a spokesman or he doesn't exist, IMHO. Either way, it says to me that if someone says they know what God wants, thinks, or feels, they are deluded.

God did speak to people when Jesus walked the Earth, up close and personal, and still many did not believe. I think God speaks to people now.

I will give you one point though. I think if we mortals knew what God wanted, thought or felt, God wouldn't be much of a God. That is why I never presume to speak for God. I only hope I am able to allow Him to speak through me.

 

[ding]

Seemed to me as a very young boy that it would be simple for God to prove he spoke to someone. Just have that someone say look for a supernova in Virgo next week. The fact He doesn't shows he either doesn't want a spokesman or he doesn't exist, IMHO. Either way, it says to me that if someone says they know what God wants, thinks, or feels, they are deluded.

<ahem> Jesus

 

[BreezeWood]

God did speak to people when Jesus walked the Earth, up close and personal, and still many did not believe. I think God speaks to people now.

no the heavens have never spoken to anyone than the heavenly religion of antiquity when setting a&e on their journey and most notably not moses, their false commandments nor abraham's heredity idolatry ... as they too claim.

the truth of which is made by jesus who taught similarly liberation theology, self determination is the means and goal for admission to the everlasting the choice made by a&e for themselves and all humanity.

 

[alang1216]

<ahem> Jesus

Jesus but not Mohammad or Jesus and Mohammad?

 

[ding]

Jesus but not Mohammad or Jesus and Mohammad?

Which one made the claim?

 

[alang1216]

Which one made the claim?

So far as I know, only Mohammad claimed he got scripture from God (via Gabriel).

 

[ding]

So far as I know, only Mohammad claimed he got scripture from God (via Gabriel).

And what was the claim of Jesus?

 

[alang1216]

And what was the claim of Jesus?

That He was an interpreter and teacher of the existing Hebrew scriptures. I don't recall him adding anything to them. The NT was created by others after Jesus died.

 

[ding]

That He was an interpreter and teacher of the existing Hebrew scriptures. I don't recall him adding anything to them. The NT was created by others after Jesus died.

So the 24,000 written manuscripts are an epic conspiracy theory?

 

[ding]

That He was an interpreter and teacher of the existing Hebrew scriptures. I don't recall him adding anything to them. The NT was created by others after Jesus died.

What's your take on John 10:25-33?

Because the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming. They wanted to stone him for blaspheme.

 

[ding]

That He was an interpreter and teacher of the existing Hebrew scriptures. I don't recall him adding anything to them. The NT was created by others after Jesus died.

What's your take on John 8:31-59?

Because the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming. They wanted to stone him for blaspheme.

 

[alang1216]

So the 24,000 written manuscripts are an epic conspiracy theory?

How many did Jesus write? How many were written in his lifetime? How many were written by people who, like Paul, never met Jesus?

 

[ding]

How many did Jesus write? How many were written in his lifetime? How many were written by people who, like Paul, never met Jesus?

So you are claiming a conspiracy, right?

See post #91 and 92 for the words of Jesus.

Unless you are saying it's all a massive conspiracy, right?

 

[alang1216]

What's your take on John 10:25-33?

Because the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming. They wanted to stone him for blaspheme.

John was written decades after Jesus died, by someone who was isolated (did the writer have access to the synoptic gospels?) and knew little about him. It is a work of theology, not of history.

 

[ding]

John was written decades after Jesus died, by someone who was isolated (did the writer have access to the synoptic gospels?) and knew little about him. It is a work of theology, not of history.

So you are saying it's all made up, right?

Do you really believe that makes sense? Do you have any evidence of that? Do you have a good reason for believing that?

 

[alang1216]

What's your take on John 8:31-59?

Because the Jews understood what Jesus was claiming. They wanted to stone him for blaspheme.

By John's time, Christian anti-Semitism had developed and was raging in the Christian communities that were made up of pagan converts.

 

[ding]

John was written decades after Jesus died, by someone who was isolated (did the writer have access to the synoptic gospels?) and knew little about him. It is a work of theology, not of history.

It seems that since you reject the words from Jesus based upon your unsupported conspiracy theory that you must believe if Jesus really did say and do those things, that you would believe he was who he said he was.

Because otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing that they should be dismissed. You would be arguing something else, right?

 

[ding]

By John's time, Christian anti-Semitism had developed and was raging in the Christian communities that were made up of pagan converts.

So massive conspiracy? Why are you afraid to say that?

 

[ding]

By John's time, Christian anti-Semitism had developed and was raging in the Christian communities that were made up of pagan converts.

Isn't the behavior of the early Christians and the apostles proof that these events really did occur? Why would they suffer that abuse for a fake conspiracy?