Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Skylar]

OK, let's assume you're right, that churches cannot be forced to marry gays. The more important part of this thread is how many people voted and HOW they voted in the poll. Seems to conflict with what we've been told. Again, the answer chosen wasn't merely just "no" it was "oh, HELL no!"..

And in this, you are again hopelessly confused. As support for gay marriage and support for forcing churches to perform them are unconnected ideas. One does not mean the other. I and MDK both oppose forcing churches to perform gay weddings. And yet we both support gay marriage (hope I got your vibe right, MDK. If no, ooops).

Your projecting your own beliefs again, assuming that what other people 'really mean' is what you do. And that's a process that has failed you again and again. As it did when you blundered with your elaborate and imaginative interpretation of the beliefs and motivations of the USSC when they granted the stays to Utah and other states.

 

[WorldWatcher]

OK, let's assume you're right, that churches cannot be forced to marry gays. The more important part of this thread is how many people voted and HOW they voted in the poll. Seems to conflict with what we've been told. Again, the answer chosen wasn't merely just "no" it was "oh, HELL no!"..

And in this, you are again hopelessly confused. As support for gay marriage and support for forcing churches to perform them are unconnected ideas. One does not mean the other. I and MDK both oppose forcing churches to perform gay weddings. And yet we both support gay marriage (hope I got your vibe right, MDK. If no, ooops).

Your projecting your own beliefs again, assuming that what other people 'really mean' is what you do. And that's a process that has failed you again and again. As it did when you blundered with your elaborate and imaginative interpretation of the beliefs and motivations of the USSC when they granted the stays to Utah and other states.

Add me to that list.


>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

People who supported interracial marriage laws thought they were right...they were certain their churches wouldn't ever marry "those people".

Remember that people who thought themselves to be Christians slayed thousands of people trying to make those people turn to Christianity. Were those people true Christians? Hell no.

A person has no choice to be born American, or white, or black, or Hispanic, or anything else. No one would choose to have a child born with a disability.

Homosexuality IS a choice. Just as adultery, and promiscuity, and even a consenting man and woman living together sleeping in the same bed. Those are all choices that people make.

Interracial marriage is not a sin, a Christian marrying an unbeliever, that is considered a sin, according to what I know of the Bible. Others believe differently than I do, but we still search the Scriptures for the answers to all kinds of questions, the key is to keep on searching, for Christianity is a learning religion, and as we grow, we learn and we adapt. The basis for our faith is the one true constant. John 3:16, if you have that, and you truly believe that, you will want to learn more.

YOU don't think interracial marriage is a sin, but people did in large numbers and some still do. You feel justified in your bigotry just like they did. Same/Same.

Oh, and religion is a choice, being gay is not.

Just because people have been wrong about one thing doesn't mean they are wrong about EVERYTHING.

When it comes to justifying bigotry with a religious text, when has that ever been "right"?

I really don't think bigotry is something that religion ever justified.

Then you are woefully ill informed.

 

[deltex1]

Can people be forced to shut up about gay marriages? Why talk about something that only exists in the minds of LIBTARDS?

 

[Seawytch]

Can people be forced to shut up about gay marriages? Why talk about something that only exists in the minds of LIBTARDS?

And some conservative justices. Oh, and in...what is it now, 30 states.

 

[Silhouette]

Sweeping sedition of majority rule indeed...well, minus Idaho and Nevada...

Hear that screeching coming from Idaho and Nevada? Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy granted an emergency halt on Wednesday to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling Tuesday overturning marriage bans from going into effect.
While the application for a stay came from Idaho officials, Kennedy’s order covers both Idaho and Nevada because the cases before the 9th Circuit were consolidated.
- See more at: FrontiersLA.com Justice Kennedy Grants Emergency Stay to Gay Marriages in Idaho and Nevada

Lawyers are now scrambling to figure out and explain why this stay was granted and what it will mean, if anything to the momenteum of the marriage equality movement. In the meantime, exhilarated couples preparing to marry got a cold spalsh of disappointment.

 

[Skylar]

And the court limited that stay to Idaho. Freeing up all the other States which just had their appeals refused to start gaying up their marriage laws ASAP.

They could be having gay marriages in Nevada as soon as...right now!

Justice Kennedy allows gay marriage in Nevada

WASHINGTON (AP) — Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy on Wednesday allowed same-sex marriage to begin in Nevada, clarifying that an earlier order temporarily blocking gay unions applies only to Idaho.

Justice Kennedy allows gay marriage in Nevada - Yahoo News

And good riddance to that silly law.

 

[Jarlaxle]

And don't forget one of the highest turnouts of any USMB poll I've ever seen. The results of that poll say that 82% of Americans feel that gay marriage should not be forced upon churches. What does that say about how they feel about gay marriage in general? I would say the word "tepid" was the hottest temperature you could assign their zeal.

That isn't what this polling asking though. The poll doesn't ask if you support gay marriage. It asks if you would support a church being forced to marry a gay couple. I think it is interesting question though. Maybe another poll that asks if you support gay marriage and the right of churches to not marry them is in order. Perhaps a layered question would shed more light on the topic. It could prove for some interesting discussion.

Well hmm... Imagine if this was a question of "do you think churches should have to perform interracial marriages" [race and behaviors are not in the same legal class BTW] and 82% of the responders said "hell no!". [That's kind of how that question is posed]. Then would you feel comfortable extrapolating that of that group, most of them also weren't in support of interracial marriage in general?

Yes, you would. It's kind of like your idea for a thread was already done in the way the question was posed. People could've just not voted. But they did. In the hundreds. And 82% of that number said "hell no" to gays marrying in churches..

Wow, Silly, you POUNDED that straw man! Just give up and walk away, you're humiliating yourself now.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You don't understand the issues that were being adjuciated in the Hobby Lobby decision. The issue in the Hobby Lobby case was could the religious conviction of an individual business owner exempt some from commonly applied laws. And the answer was yes, in the case of Hobby Lobby. The part you fail to recognize is......Churches were already exempt. The scenario you describe where churches are forced to perform marriages is ridiculously unlikey for the very reasons that mdk describes.

As for the 'disturbing trend of conflicting decisions' you describe......what contradiction? You *assumed* that the USSC had declared that gay marriage bans were legal when they granted a stay while the issues were adjudicated. But the USSC never said this. You made it up. And the stay certainly didn't make gay marriage bans constitutional. It was a delay of implementation.

You imagined elaborate motivations for the courts, made up a fantastically specific set of beliefs for the court.....none of which the Court ever stated. You made it up. Nor did they give any reason for their stay. They simply granted it. And then allowed the lower court rulings to stand as the issue made its way through the courts. With gay marriage now legal in about a dozen more states. In explicit contradiction of the elaborate beliefs and motivations you invented for the court, pulled sideways from your own ass.

You were simply wrong.

OK, let's assume you're right, that churches cannot be forced to marry gays. The more important part of this thread is how many people voted and HOW they voted in the poll. Seems to conflict with what we've been told. Again, the answer chosen wasn't merely just "no" it was "oh, HELL no!"..

That is because the poll is what is generally called a push poll, Silly...and we both know it!

 

[Skylar]

That is because the poll is what is generally called a push poll, Silly...and we both know it!

Gallup is doing push polls? Say yes, and you can never quote Gallup again.

 

[Silhouette]

That is because the poll is what is generally called a push poll, Silly...and we both know it!

Oh, I see. It's not like the LGBT cult members engage in stacked polling right? Nah. Odd though how their scrupulously honest polling sure seems to differ from the result above?

How many Americans [from a blue district in San Francisco or the Villiage NY] support gay marriage? An overwhelming majority!

 

[Jarlaxle]

That is because the poll is what is generally called a push poll, Silly...and we both know it!

Gallup is doing push polls? Say yes, and you can never quote Gallup again.

No, the poll on this thread! Are you fuckin' STUPID, boy?

 

[Jarlaxle]

That is because the poll is what is generally called a push poll, Silly...and we both know it!

Oh, I see. It's not like the LGBT cult members engage in stacked polling right? Nah. Odd though how their scrupulously honest polling sure seems to differ from the result above?

How many Americans [from a blue district in San Francisco or the Villiage NY] support gay marriage? An overwhelming majority!

Just stop, Silly. "They did it first" stopped working when most people were about four years old.

 

[Silhouette]

Just stop, Silly. "They did it first" stopped working when most people were about four years old.

When the shoe fits...

 

[Skylar]

Oh, I see. It's not like the LGBT cult members engage in stacked polling right? Nah. Odd though how their scrupulously honest polling sure seems to differ from the result above?

How many Americans [from a blue district in San Francisco or the Villiage NY] support gay marriage? An overwhelming majority!

Gallup isn't particularly stacked, Silo. And they show 55% support for gay marriage. You're making the same mistake you always make. You are projecting your beliefs onto people that don't necessarily share them. And the electorate doesn't share your views.

 

[Silhouette]

Gallup isn't particularly stacked, Silo. And they show 55% support for gay marriage. You're making the same mistake you always make. You are projecting your beliefs onto people that don't necessarily share them. And the electorate doesn't share your views.

Funny how gay marriage keeps getting voted down in state after state...

 

[Skylar]

Gallup isn't particularly stacked, Silo. And they show 55% support for gay marriage. You're making the same mistake you always make. You are projecting your beliefs onto people that don't necessarily share them. And the electorate doesn't share your views.

Funny how gay marriage keeps getting voted down in state after state...

In 2009, the year after California passed prop 8......support for gay marriage was 33%. Today, its 55%. And rising. With support for gay marriage among the millenials at almost 80%. I suspect that a measurable portion of the increase in support for gay marriage is just your ilk dying off.

Do you have any doubt, any doubt at all that Prop 8 would be voted down in California today?

 

[Silhouette]

In 2009, the year after California passed prop 8......support for gay marriage was 33%. Today, its 55%. And rising. 1 With support for gay marriage among the millenials at almost 80%. I suspect that a measurable portion of the increase in support for gay marriage is just your ilk dying off.

Do you have any doubt, any doubt at all that Prop 8 would be voted down in California today? 2

1. The poll at the top suggests otherwise... 82+%...impressive! It's one of the biggest poll responses at USMB ever. That displays interest/concern about the topic as well.

2. That depends on how many commercials of gay pride parades and clips from the biography of Harvey Milk are run on ads at prime time the week before the vote...paid for by traditional marriage sources....That kind of thing could make or break a vote.

Like I've always said, for people utterly confident of how you'd do at the polls "today", you're sure doing triple back flips to make damn sure the People don't have a say in who can get married in their state.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The poll reflects the board members who voted willingness to protect religious rights in their private business.

LGBT overwhelmingly would support that poll.

Yet more than 55 percent support marriage equality, and the election this fall will do nothing to change that or indicate a willingness to return to the bad old way.

 

[Silhouette]

The poll reflects the board members who voted willingness to protect religious rights in their private business.

LGBT overwhelmingly would support that poll.

Yet more than 55 percent support marriage equality, and the election this fall will do nothing to change that or indicate a willingness to return to the bad old way.

I don't read it that way. The question's answer with an 82% response says, "No, I THOUGHT this was AMERICA". Most LGBTs at this website will refuse to vote on a loaded answer like that, and they've told me as much repeatedly. You've seen the posts. Also, the LGBT schills here at USMB, the spammers and their buddies line up unanimously to make anything they could look pro-gay. Voting essentially "Oh HELL no" on gay weddings at churches doesn't line up with that consistent pattern...

...no....it's a complete divergence from that pattern. The "orders" would be to just not vote. The fold would be told this and the numbers in the poll would reflect that. But they don't. They show a huge number of people saying "hell no!" to gays marrying in churches. Not just "no". The reply is "HELL no!" That little subtle detail makes all the difference in the world on who is voting and how they're voting...