Should people have to perform/provide services for gay weddings?

[Moonglow]

When I sold condoms door-to-door, rump rangers were some of my steadiest customers.

did you keep all the inflatable butt plugs for yourself?

 

[Amelia]

On Face the Nation this morning Bob Schieffer was surprised to hear that people such as bakers and photographers are facing fines and possibly jail time for not providing their services to gay weddings. Whatever you feel about whether people should be forced to facilitate something they are religiously opposed to, it says a lot about the media coverage that Schieffer didn't even know about it.

Do you feel people who are religiously opposed to gay marriage should have to cater to gay weddings?

Obama said he won't make churches perform gay weddings. So, if we believe him, that one little corner of culture might not be forced to change. But everything else is fair game, isn't it.

Public schools will be actively attempting to make children view gay marriage as normal. Adoption agencies will be penalized for not arranging for children to be placed with gay couples. And bakers could lose thousands of dollars or go to jail if they refuse to put two plastic men on top of a wedding cake.

I watched that segment. Perkins jumped on Schieffer for not being aware of a handful of civil actions against bigots in Colorado and New Mexico. The suggestion being that the media was covering it up. Perkins did not answer the question that Bob asked....however. How many such lawsuits have been filed?

That Perkins is a politician. He was skilled at not answering questions.

How many law suits are we talking about?

Why does the number matter?

All I know of so far are a baker in Colorado, a florist in Washington and a photographer in New Mexico. Does it not matter because it's "only 3" ... if it is only 3?

 

[TemplarKormac]

You may not have seen my edit.

Even if gay marriage should not have been prohibited, that doesn't mean it was normal, so why should schools teach that it was?


That brings me to the question in my edit: During which time periods has gay marriage been normal?

Just prior to the fall of historically great civilizations, gay marriage was considered normal.

Which ones?

Rome.

 

[Amelia]

Interesting page: History of same-sex unions

 

[Moonglow]

Just prior to the fall of historically great civilizations, gay marriage was considered normal.

Which ones?

Rome.

that was not the reason for the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years.

A same-sex union was known in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] ancient Mesopotamia,[3] in some regions of China, such as Fujian province, and at certain times in ancient European history.[4] These same-sex unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

 

[Katzndogz]

If businesses do not want to provide service to gays they will have to be more creative. They will figure it out eventually.

 

[TemplarKormac]

When I sold condoms door-to-door, rump rangers were some of my steadiest customers.

did you keep all the inflatable butt plugs for yourself?

Says a guy who has an avatar of Bart Simpson mooning people.

 

[Katzndogz]

Which ones?

Rome.

Rome nor Greece had gay marriage, even if they did, that was not the reason of the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years.

At their end both Rome and Greece recognized legal homosexual relationships. While this wasn't the sole cause this recognition was more like a symptom of a culture already very sick. Just like the United States today.

While many civilizations formalized homosexual unions the value was never passed on to a succeeding civilizations. Otherwise we would have same sex marriage for thousands of years. The pattern followed has been repeated many times. Full recognition followed by complete slaughter by whichever army is doing the conquering.

 

[asaratis]

Surely there must be some gay bakers in gay communities. Hell, even the Pillsbury Doughboy likes to get poked now and then!

...and I suspect there are some gay "seamstresses" in the gay Meccas.

..and there must be some gay florists.

Start yourself a bakery that caters to gays. You'll make millions!

Addressing the OP, most businesses can reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE!...for ANY REASON they choose.

 

[Moonglow]

Rome.

Rome nor Greece had gay marriage, even if they did, that was not the reason of the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years.

At their end both Rome and Greece recognized legal homosexual relationships. While this wasn't the sole cause this recognition was more like a symptom of a culture already very sick. Just like the United States today.

While many civilizations formalized homosexual unions the value was never passed on to a succeeding civilizations. Otherwise we would have same sex marriage for thousands of years. The pattern followed has been repeated many times. Full recognition followed by complete slaughter by whichever army is doing the conquering.

A same-sex union was known in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] ancient Mesopotamia,[3] in some regions of China, such as Fujian province, and at certain times in ancient European history.[4] These same-sex unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed
History of same-sex unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TemplarKormac]

Which ones?

Rome.

that was not the reason for the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years.

A same-sex union was known in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] ancient Mesopotamia,[3] in some regions of China, such as Fujian province, and at certain times in ancient European history.[4] These same-sex unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed

History of same-sex unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First of all the Roman Empire didn't really fall all at once. It was split in half because of Germanic barbarians into East and West. The West Empire fell before the East. The East flourished because of its new capital city at Constantinople. This gave rise to the Byzantium.

 

[syrenn]

On Face the Nation this morning Bob Schieffer was surprised to hear that people such as bakers and photographers are facing fines and possibly jail time for not providing their services to gay weddings. Whatever you feel about whether people should be forced to facilitate something they are religiously opposed to, it says a lot about the media coverage that Schieffer didn't even know about it.

Do you feel people who are religiously opposed to gay marriage should have to cater to gay weddings?

Obama said he won't make churches perform gay weddings. So, if we believe him, that one little corner of culture might not be forced to change. But everything else is fair game, isn't it.

Public schools will be actively attempting to make children view gay marriage as normal. Adoption agencies will be penalized for not arranging for children to be placed with gay couples. And bakers could lose thousands of dollars or go to jail if they refuse to put two plastic men on top of a wedding cake.

first off why would you want someone doing anything for you if they dont want to? The only reason to push a situation like that is to try and make money out of it.

No, i do not think any business should be forced to cater to anyone they do not wish to cater to provide a service to. I believe in the phrase... we reserve the right to refuse service.

 

[LoneLaugher]

On Face the Nation this morning Bob Schieffer was surprised to hear that people such as bakers and photographers are facing fines and possibly jail time for not providing their services to gay weddings. Whatever you feel about whether people should be forced to facilitate something they are religiously opposed to, it says a lot about the media coverage that Schieffer didn't even know about it.

Do you feel people who are religiously opposed to gay marriage should have to cater to gay weddings?

Obama said he won't make churches perform gay weddings. So, if we believe him, that one little corner of culture might not be forced to change. But everything else is fair game, isn't it.

Public schools will be actively attempting to make children view gay marriage as normal. Adoption agencies will be penalized for not arranging for children to be placed with gay couples. And bakers could lose thousands of dollars or go to jail if they refuse to put two plastic men on top of a wedding cake.

I watched that segment. Perkins jumped on Schieffer for not being aware of a handful of civil actions against bigots in Colorado and New Mexico. The suggestion being that the media was covering it up. Perkins did not answer the question that Bob asked....however. How many such lawsuits have been filed?

That Perkins is a politician. He was skilled at not answering questions.

How many law suits are we talking about?

Why does the number matter?

All I know of so far are a baker in Colorado, a florist in Washington and a photographer in New Mexico. Does it not matter because it's "only 3" ... if it is only 3?

It kind of matters. The "expert" was asked. He avoided the question.

 

[bodecea]

Just prior to the fall of historically great civilizations, gay marriage was considered normal.

Which ones?

Rome.

You mean the Rome that didn't fall until the Christians came to power?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Which ones?

Rome.

You mean the Rome that didn't fall until the Christians came to power?

Nope, if you ever heard of the Constantinian Dynasty, then you know that not to be true. Please have a seat. The Roman Empire collapsed after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, under Constantine XI.

Christians came to power in the 306 BC. The empire lasted for almost 1,200 years afterwards.

 

[bodecea]

Rome.

Rome nor Greece had gay marriage, even if they did, that was not the reason of the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted another 1000 years.

At their end both Rome and Greece recognized legal homosexual relationships. While this wasn't the sole cause this recognition was more like a symptom of a culture already very sick. Just like the United States today.

While many civilizations formalized homosexual unions the value was never passed on to a succeeding civilizations. Otherwise we would have same sex marriage for thousands of years. The pattern followed has been repeated many times. Full recognition followed by complete slaughter by whichever army is doing the conquering.

At Rome's end? Prove it. The Christians in charge up til the end did that?

 

[bodecea]

Rome.

You mean the Rome that didn't fall until the Christians came to power?

Nope, if you ever heard of the Constantinian Dynasty, then you know that not to be true. Please have a seat. The Roman Empire collapsed after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, under Constantine XI.

Christians came to power in the 306 BC. The empire lasted for almost 1,200 years afterwards.

It is very true.


The Byzantine did...until the Muslims conquered it. But the Western was conquered by the pagans AFTER the Christians took over. Oops....nice try trying to blame it on gays.

 

[Pheonixops]

On Face the Nation this morning Bob Schieffer was surprised to hear that people such as bakers and photographers are facing fines and possibly jail time for not providing their services to gay weddings. Whatever you feel about whether people should be forced to facilitate something they are religiously opposed to, it says a lot about the media coverage that Schieffer didn't even know about it.

Do you feel people who are religiously opposed to gay marriage should have to cater to gay weddings?

Obama said he won't make churches perform gay weddings. So, if we believe him, that one little corner of culture might not be forced to change. But everything else is fair game, isn't it.

Public schools will be actively attempting to make children view gay marriage as normal. Adoption agencies will be penalized for not arranging for children to be placed with gay couples. And bakers could lose thousands of dollars or go to jail if they refuse to put two plastic men on top of a wedding cake.

I don't think that privately owned bakers and photographers should be fines for refusal to provide services to "gay weddings". If I was a person who catered to gay weddings, I would not be happy with that law because their refusal would mean more business for me.

No.

What is everything else that is "fair game" in your book?

The last paragraph is homophobic reactionary bullshit in my opinion.

 

[Pheonixops]

Do you feel people who are religiously opposed to gay marriage should have to cater to gay weddings?

No. They should be able to refuse service to whom ever they want for what ever reason.

I will add: "As long as they are not receiving any public funding, breaks, contracts, etc.

 

[Pheonixops]

I don't think anybody should be forced to provide a service for somebody they disagree with if they don't want to. I could care less if a store refused service to a minority as well. You have your right to be a bigot, and I have my right to not frequent your business because of it.

As far as public schools teaching gay marriage is normal, I agree they should have to. They should have been able to teach that it was normal from the very beginning.

Why should they have been able to teach that something which wasn't normal was normal?

Edit: Let me phrase that in a more open-minded way: During which time periods has gay marriage been normal?

Gay marriage is normal because the government says it is, not because 38 other American States say otherwise.

As a "Libertarian", do you think that government should be involved in marriage?