Should The President Invoke Emergency Powers Under Article VI & the 14th Amendment..

[Quantum Windbag]

...if there is no budget agreement by Aug 2nd, and the US is at risk of defaulting on its constitional obligation to pay its debts?


Insurrection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

How do people feel about this?

Any president can't just allow the US to be held hostage to the unwillingness of Congress to meet the constitutional obligations of the US to pay our legally incurred financial obligations because Congress fails to fulfill its constitutional requirement to raise the debt ceiling in order to insure that America does not default on its debt.

You want the president to call out troops against Congress? And are trying to cite Article 6 and the 14th Amendment as justification?

What the fuck is wrong with you? The only way this makes sense is if you are mentally deficient and incredibly stupid.

Even if we take the extremist view that the 14th Amendment makes a debt ceiling unconstitutional, which it doesn't, no one is trying to say that the US government will not be able to pay its debts. What will happen if we refuse to raise the debt ceiling is the government will not be able to borrow anymore money. They are perfectly free to cut spending, lay people off, and find other ways to pay off any current obligations.

Even if we take the moronically extreme view that the only way the government can survive is if we keep borrowing and spending until we owe more money than exists in the entire world it does not justify any president ignoring the Constitution and trying to oust Congress by force of arms. I would compare this to Hitler, but Hitler was smarter than you are and I would hate to insult him.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...if there is no budget agreement by Aug 2nd, and the US is at risk of defaulting on its constitional obligation to pay its debts?


Insurrection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

How do people feel about this?

Any president can't just allow the US to be held hostage to the unwillingness of Congress to meet the constitutional obligations of the US to pay our legally incurred financial obligations because Congress fails to fulfill its constitutional requirement to raise the debt ceiling in order to insure that America does not default on its debt.

Good call. I can't think of a reason why he couldn't do this. He is charged with protecting this country, after all.

It is official, you have made a mockery of your user name.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Good call. I can't think of a reason why he couldn't do this. He is charged with protecting this country, after all.

That's the same logic Hitler used to justify putting Jews in gas ovens.

Don't confuse him.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Any president can't just allow the US to be held hostage to the unwillingness of Congress to meet the constitutional obligations of the US to pay our legally incurred financial obligations because Congress fails to fulfill its constitutional requirement to raise the debt ceiling in order to insure that America does not default on its debt.

No, the president will do what he believes to be the responsible thing: cave and give in to the GOP, just as he did last year.

Of course, the best thing Obama can do for the Nation is to call the GOP’s bluff.

The GOP responds only to force, not reasoning. Obama’s failure to realize this will be his undoing, and perhaps the Nation’s.

They are not arguing over the BUDGET. This is about raising the debt ceiling, they are two different pieces of legislation/laws. The basic lack of government understanding displayed by the right wing is funny.

Actually it’s tragic and dangerous.

I haven't advocated this, dufus. It's just something I thought would make an interesting debate and intellectual exercise.

How long have you been posting here…?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Good call. I can't think of a reason why he couldn't do this. He is charged with protecting this country, after all.

That's the same logic Hitler used to justify putting Jews in gas ovens.

You're going to have to draw that line from A to B, cuz I don't see it.

Turn around and look behind you, it is there. You crossed it when you thought that the president has the power to order the military to shoot Congress.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Perhaps Lord Obama should actually propose a budget that doesn't send us into an even further economic sinkhole. BTW... not getting his way isn't reason enough to impose martial law.

According to the Constitution it is. Read up.

Where does it say that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you saying that conservatives might rise up to try to overthrow the gov't? That would warrant the sending in of troops, which a president is perfectly within his rights to do as the head of the executive branch under the constitution AND current laws.

No, that's not at all what I said. If Obama were to do something this colossally stupid, it would render the Democrat party pointless for decades. Perhaps then the normal people who may still be Democrats will purge the party of the lunatic Marxists and Communists that have diseased the party for decades.

So the constitution is marxist and communist? Are you saying that it would be unconstitutional for obama to do it, or would it just be politically wrong?

How about both?

 

[Mustang]

That's the same logic Hitler used to justify putting Jews in gas ovens.

You're going to have to draw that line from A to B, cuz I don't see it.

Turn around and look behind you, it is there. You crossed it when you thought that the president has the power to order the military to shoot Congress.

LOL! Quantum Windbag is a perfect name for you considering that I never said, or even intimated, that the president should have the military commit any act of violence against any member of Congress.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, the premise here is that the President can basically call out the troops because Congress, who btw, holds the purse strings, won't let him spend what ever amount he wants?

How colossally stupid is this?

Mindbogglingly colossal.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

PLEASE DO IT.

That way I don't have to deal with democrats for the next 16 years.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But I for one BEG him to do that. He'd lose in 2012 by 20 points.

He wouldn't even get that close. I don't think he would even get the nomination.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, the premise here is that the President can basically call out the troops because Congress, who btw, holds the purse strings, won't let him spend what ever amount he wants?

How colossally stupid is this?

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Has the debt limit been hit? Has that debt been incurred? Is not raising the debt limit to equal the amount of money the US has actually borrowed questioning the validity of the public debt?

Where do people get the crazy idea that Libs are Fascists?

I can't figure it out.

 

[The T]

Perhaps Lord Obama should actually propose a budget that doesn't send us into an even further economic sinkhole. BTW... not getting his way isn't reason enough to impose martial law.

According to the Constitution it is. Read up.

The U.S. Constitution does not allow the President to send out the Military if he doesn't get his way. It it did, we wouldn't need Congress or the Judiciary.

Indeed. See the Posse Comitatus Act

 

[Mustang]

Well, I'm going to go and enjoy the rest of the Independence Day weekend. I shall return sometime on Tuesday. Everybody try to remember that this is a debating forum and not a place to nurse conspiracy theories.

Ciao!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let me get this straight, you think a failure to come to an agreement on the budget ceiling equals an insurrection or rebellion which justifies calling out the Military? Pretty extreme isn't it? The problem concerns leadership and apparently the former community activist ain't got it.

They are not arguing over the BUDGET. This is about raising the debt ceiling, they are two different pieces of legislation/laws. The basic lack of government understanding displayed by the right wing is funny. Go study some more David Barton American "History".

It amuses me that someone who thinks that not raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of insurrection is lecturing anyone about their understanding of the law.

 

[xsited1]

.Should The President Invoke Emergency Powers Under Article VI & the 14th Amendment..

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you saying that conservatives might rise up to try to overthrow the gov't? That would warrant the sending in of troops, which a president is perfectly within his rights to do as the head of the executive branch under the constitution AND current laws.

Sending in troops? You do remember what side of the poltical spectrum the majority of a soldiers come from? If ordered to suppress civilians after the president declares a state of emergency do you really think they will follow orders?

This is all laughable at face value. What I find disturbing is your apparent glee at having the president basically nullify congress.

Military units are trained to follow orders.

They are trained to follow lawful orders, and to understand the difference between a lawful order and an illegal one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, the premise here is that the President can basically call out the troops because Congress, who btw, holds the purse strings, won't let him spend what ever amount he wants?

How colossally stupid is this?

No, that's the premise you made up. I'm really not sure if you're stupid or a liar. My sense is your both.

Did you read the OP, or are you just reflexively disagreeing with Soggy?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

So, the premise here is that the President can basically call out the troops because Congress, who btw, holds the purse strings, won't let him spend what ever amount he wants?

How colossally stupid is this?

No, that's the premise you made up. I'm really not sure if you're stupid or a liar. My sense is your both.

Did you read the OP, or are you just reflexively disagreeing with Soggy?

Wry never reads up before jumping in.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The military won't be called out. What would likely happen is Obama would likely declare emergency powers, sign an executive order to let the treasury stop a default, then rescind his powers. Most folks wouldnt even understand what a seismic event that would be and there's no risk of civil war. Hell, he'd probably jump up a few points in the poles for finally showing some spine.

The GOP would likely fume and fuss and let it go. You'd probably never hear about it on the campaign trail and the next time a Democrat Cogress got uppity the next GOP President would use the precedent and do the same thing.

I was thinking something along the same lines as far as how it could happen.

An interesting side note is wondering what would happen when invariably RW radio hosts later took to the airwaves to rail against the gov't, especially if they called for some kind of resistance, armed or otherwise. Would that constitute some form of treason or sedition, thereby warranting, in the eyes of the gov't, taking them off the air or some kind of house arrest for the remainder of the crisis?

Are you backing off because you figured out it was incredibly stupid?