Should Ukraine get their Nuclear Weapons back?

[CowboyTed]

Seems a very nonsensical idea.

Where are the Nukes? Where they destroyed?

people have been posting without thinking this through.

wtf?

I believe they were given to Russia and they dismantled them...

That has nothing to do with Ukraine...

They will accept like for like...

Dante The most obvious thing is to honour the deal.
We have a load people here that are saying they want out of the deal and that Clinton & the GOP should have never entered into it. I am just saying if you want to pull out, give Ukraine back their Nukes..

 

[CowboyTed]

"Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia." - Russia reneged? Like the US with the Kurds and others.

"United States, the UK, France, China and Russia" - For two decades, It did keep seriously bad things from happening

note: What countries were part of the Iran nuclear deal?​

​

The agreement was finalized in Vienna on 14 July 2015, between Iran and the P5+1 (the five permanent members of the United Nations S.C.—China, France, Russia, the U.K., U.S.—plus Germany) together with the European Union.​

Did the Kurds have a signed deal? I don't think so...
Will agree with they got screwed over.

Afghan Friendlies got screwed too...

The difference is that Ukraine has a signed deal...

So if Ukraine sign a deal on Mineral rites, As soo as Russia is gone they can tell US to fuck off... Deals don't matter...
It is a dangerous thing breaking these types of deal, you loose your trusted partner repudation.

 

[CowboyTed]

If the United States were to break up like the Soviet Union did... do the nuclear ICBMs in Missouri belong to Missouri?

We have Whiteman AFB and the Stealth aircraft with Nukes. Would those be ours, too?

Asking for a friend...

In a word, yes...

When the USSR broke up, the countries which had the nukes in them, owned them.

The nukes belonged to the country which was securing them at the time.

At the time, no one disputed Ukraine's ownership of them... Belarus owned them too...

 

[Missourian]

In a word, yes...

When the USSR broke up, the countries which had the nukes in them, owned them.

The nukes belonged to the country which was securing them at the time.

At the time, no one disputed Ukraine's ownership of them... Belarus owned them too...

Betcha 500 ICBMs that definition would change in an instant if the US broke up along current political lines tomorrow morning, as the Red States would control almost the entire nuclear arsenal.

Want to take me up on that?

 

[BackAgain]

It turned them over to US, UK and Russia...

Link?

The assurance was from all the parties in the agreement...

Yes. We know. That wasn’t a question.

When you sign a deal, it is not Ukraine's business with what US, UK or Russia did with the Nukes...

I didn’t suggest that it was Ukraine’s concern.

 

[CowboyTed]

Link?

Yes. We know. That wasn’t a question.

I didn’t suggest that it was Ukraine’s concern.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the whole reason why US and EU feel obligated to defend Ukraine..

 

[Scoutster]

There will be a peace deal within six months most likely. Russia will keep a lot of the land it already controls and Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO. That is the likely scenario.

 

[BackAgain]

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is the whole reason why US and EU feel obligated to defend Ukraine..

Doubtful that it is the “whole” reason.

At most, it is “a” possible reason.

 

[CowboyTed]

Betcha 500 ICBMs that definition would change in an instant if the US broke up along current political lines tomorrow morning, as the Red States would control almost the entire nuclear arsenal.

Want to take me up on that?

Seem pretty equal...

 

[CowboyTed]

Doubtful that it is the “whole” reason.

At most, it is “a” possible reason.

Agreed not whole, figure of speech...
Other big reasons are:

• Stopping Putin idea of reunifying USSR
• Weaken Russia (on the cheap)
• Send a message to China (if you invade Taiwan, we can screw with you without sending any troops)
• Ukraine joins EU (this is a big statement about democracyand anti corruption)

I am sure there are ones I missed.

 

[22lcidw]

I believe they were given to Russia and they dismantled them...

That has nothing to do with Ukraine...

They will accept like for like...

Dante The most obvious thing is to honour the deal.
We have a load people here that are saying they want out of the deal and that Clinton & the GOP should have never entered into it. I am just saying if you want to pull out, give Ukraine back their Nukes..

Start taxing the Progressive Socialist men and women in ghettos first.

 

[Missourian]

View attachment 1082414

Seem pretty equal...

That's 2006...twenty years ago.

Today the known ICBM locations are in Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska and Colorado.

And testing for the Sentinel in Utah.

Good luck.

 

[BackAgain]

Agreed not whole, figure of speech...
Other big reasons are:

• Stopping Putin idea of reunifying USSR
• Weaken Russia (on the cheap)
• Send a message to China (if you invade Taiwan, we can screw with you without sending any troops)
• Ukraine joins EU (this is a big statement about democracyand anti corruption)

I am sure there are ones I missed.

Good addendum to your prior post.

 

[Missourian]

Agreed not whole, figure of speech...
Other big reasons are:

• Stopping Putin idea of reunifying USSR
• Weaken Russia (on the cheap)
• Send a message to China (if you invade Taiwan, we can screw with you without sending any troops)
• Ukraine joins EU (this is a big statement about democracyand anti corruption)

I am sure there are ones I missed.

Let us imagine the situation is reversed. The US and Russia swap places and Russia has NATO countries all up and down OUR border from a coalition based off of the conquest of the Confederacy...which has now collapsed. Would we be cool with that? Would we allow another nation on our border to join that NATO?

Keep in mind we almost triggered WWIII blockading tiny Cuba.

(Did you know autocorrect changes WWIII to WWII automatically?)

 

[braalian]

It wasn’t really their nukes. They
Belonged to the Soviet Union, and when the USSR collapsed, the Russian Federation became the legal successor state and officially inherited things like the Soviet seat on the UN Security Council as well as the Soviet nuclear arsenal

 

[CowboyTed]

Let us imagine the situation is reversed. The US and Russia swap places and Russia has NATO countries all up and down OUR border from a coalition based off of the conquest of the Confederacy...which has now collapsed. Would we be cool with that? Would we allow another nation on our border to join that NATO?

Keep in mind we almost triggered WWIII blockading tiny Cuba.

(Did you know autocorrect changes WWIII to WWII automatically?)

NATO is a defensive alliance...

The Baltic Nations have been members for two decades.

Ukraine has been in discussions with themsince 1992, since the break up...

Ukraine wanted protection from exactly what Putin did...

Again this is for defense, Putin is doing the same tired old BS about feeling threatened...

Putin has been the largest recruiter for NATO since its foundation...
He is constantly interfering in other countries under nefarious means (just look at Georgia, etc), he is a bully.

Russia is meddling in politics in Georgia and Moldova – trying to do by stealth what it is doing by war in Ukraine

There are widespread fears that Moscow is interfering in the two countries’ democratic processes.

theconversation.com

Every country that wants to protect their sovereignty is running to NATO..

 

[CowboyTed]

It wasn’t really their nukes. They
Belonged to the Soviet Union, and when the USSR collapsed, the Russian Federation became the legal successor state and officially inherited things like the Soviet seat on the UN Security Council as well as the Soviet nuclear arsenal

Again, no one said this when they were signing the Budapest Memorandum...

Russia getting the USSR seat in the UN did not mean they owned the Nukes any more than Russia owning Ukraine's power grid or other industries..

 

[Missourian]

NATO is a defensive alliance...

The Baltic Nations have been members for two decades.

Ukraine has been in discussions with themsince 1992, since the break up...

Ukraine wanted protection from exactly what Putin did...

Again this is for defense, Putin is doing the same tired old BS about feeling threatened...

Putin has been the largest recruiter for NATO since its foundation...
He is constantly interfering in other countries under nefarious means (just look at Georgia, etc), he is a bully.

Russia is meddling in politics in Georgia and Moldova – trying to do by stealth what it is doing by war in Ukraine

There are widespread fears that Moscow is interfering in the two countries’ democratic processes.

theconversation.com

Every country that wants to protect their sovereignty is running to NATO..

Would we believe that?

I wouldn't.

Russia wanted to JOIN NATO in the 90s and 2000s...we told them to pound sand.

Excerpts posted below.

Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today

The idea that the Soviet Union was tricked in 1989-90 is at the heart of Russia’s confrontation with the west

www.theguardian.com

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thehill.com

Putin says Bill Clinton told him Russia could join NATO before pulling back hours later: ‘You tricked us’

Russian President Vladimir Putin said President Clinton told him that he thought that Russia had a shot to be welcomed into NATO — but later told Putin that it wasn’t going to happen.

nypost.com

 

[AlexanderPK]

 

[westwall]

So you are pulling out of the deal?

There was no deal.