Should Ukraine get their Nuclear Weapons back?

[justoffal]

Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.

Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why

It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.

www.bbc.com

This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...

It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....

Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...

Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...

US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..

This isn't about nuclear weapons. This is about a CIA planted phony government reneging on the Minsk accord. This is about the CIA turning Ukraine into a launching point for aggression against Russia. This is about Russia not just sitting there waiting for it to happen.

 

[fncceo]

Should Ukraine get their Nuclear Weapons back?​

Get them back from whom?

 

[justoffal]

Get them back from whom?

He doesn't know.... Also, it is highly doubtful that they are even in working condition.

Most of the posters who talk like this don't know much of anything about the conflict.
They think it started three years ago.

 

[fncceo]

He doesn't know.... Also, it is highly doubtful that they are even in working condition.

Most of the posters who talk like this don't know much of anything about the conflict.
They think it started three years ago.

Any nuclear weapons that were deployed in The Ukraine when it was a Soviet satellite would belong to Russia and should have been removed from The Ukraine when they became independent.

Ukrainians have never independently developed nuclear weapons.

 

[justoffal]

Any nuclear weapons that were deployed in The Ukraine when it was a Soviet satellite would belong to Russia and should have been removed from The Ukraine when they became independent.

Ukrainians have never independently developed nuclear weapons.

The other promise made was by Ukraine ..
The promise not to become a NATO member.
This didn't sit well with certain agencies.

To get around that they destabilized the nation, installed a puppet specifically for that purpose and then proceeded to militarize ethnic politics with the express goal of creating conflict.

Well..they got their conflict and a destroyed nation with it. The puppet became extremely wealthy and the cemeteries in Ukraine gained roughly half a million new customers.

All in all the US should be ashamed of this not proud.

 

[martybegan]

Obama tried to solve it without going to war...

Trump is the one abandoning Ukraine...

I am not blaming anyone, you out of the deal, just give them their stuff back...

And he failed.

He hasn't abandoned anyone. He's feeling out for terms.

 

[justoffal]

And he failed.

He hasn't abandoned anyone. He's feeling out for terms.

Dems can't live unless they're spending your money. The ones I know personally are tight wads with their own though.

 

[CowboyTed]

Would we believe that?

I wouldn't.

Russia wanted to JOIN NATO in the 90s and 2000s...we told them to pound sand.

Excerpts posted below.

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Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today

The idea that the Soviet Union was tricked in 1989-90 is at the heart of Russia’s confrontation with the west

www.theguardian.com

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thehill.com

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Putin says Bill Clinton told him Russia could join NATO before pulling back hours later: ‘You tricked us’

Russian President Vladimir Putin said President Clinton told him that he thought that Russia had a shot to be welcomed into NATO — but later told Putin that it wasn’t going to happen.

nypost.com

Yep...

The other Eastern European Countries were probably happy to keep Russia out...

Russia meddles in other countries affairs... it have invaded a few and Putin has stated that he wants to reunify USSR...
Lets make this crystal fucking clear... A majority in these countries can run away from Russia fast enough...

The countries closer to Europe want to join EU, this gives them access to a wealthy market and significantly increases the quality of life of their people.
Putin fucking hates this... How can you have Poland which joined EU with half the GDP per Captia of Russia, now have double the GDP per Captia...
People in Russia are going to start asking where their money is gone? Putin knows this, EU is a bigger threat to him than NATO.
This is the unsaid thing... EU expansion into eastern europe is Putin's main fear... Ukraine would have done really well in EU... Moldova and Albania have requests in...
Orban is feeling it in the polls and EU is cutting him off until he puts in reforms...

With Hungry comback to EU Social Democracy... Look at the map... Georgia wants in and Belarus would be the last one to drop and he is living on borrowed time...

UK is just trying to figure out haw they can come back with dignity... In the polls they know it was a huge mistake...

That is why Putin is afraid... Russians could ask why are they poor in queues for food when rest of Europe is wealthier..

 

[Lesh]

Why don't you research before posting bullshit ?

"The overthrow of the democratically elected and neutralist President of Ukraine by a U.S. coup in February 2014 and installation by the U.S. of a rabidly anti-Russian regime instead, was done with the ultimate objective of posting U.S. nuclear missiles there against The Kremlin. The war in Ukraine started with that very bloody U.S. coup. Immediately, the U.S.-installed new leader of Ukraine changed Ukraine’s top generals and installed ones who declared that they would carry out a “filtration” to eliminate their opponents. This was necessary so that in such regions as Donbass and Crimea, where the vote had been over 75% for the U.S.-overthrown President, enough of the residents would be killed or else flee into Russia, so that ONLY anti-Russian candidates would then be able to win ‘democratic’ elections in Ukraine, and so the U.S.-installed regime would then remain permanently, but do so in a ‘democratic’ way (in order for the U.S. and its colonies — or ‘allies’ — to be able to claim they were fighting for “democracy,” which is the exact opposite of the truth)."

What Provoked Russia’s ‘Unprovoked’ Invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022 - LewRockwell

What provoked it was the same thing that provoked John Fitzgerald Kennedy to threaten the Soviet Union and Cuba with a U.S. invasion if the Soviet Union were to post its nuclear missiles in Cuba a mere 1,131 miles (30 minutes) away from America’s central command in Washington DC in 1962, but...

www.lewrockwell.com

Russian troll alert

 

[CowboyTed]

And he failed.

He hasn't abandoned anyone. He's feeling out for terms.

When you make statements he is making and freezing out Ukraine you better hurry on...

Trump has shown no ability to be able to negotiate with Putin in the past...

It is pretty simple with Russians, give them nothing at the start and keep giving them nothing.. Trump is giving them the farm and trying to leverage mineral rights from Ukraine..

Yes, he might get US out of the war entirely and EU do the fighting... But what is the point of that... For relative small money, US was controlling the situation. If EU pays for the fighting, EU will be taking the spoils of war.. The war will be paid for by freezing Russian's assets, yep, there is a war going on and Russia is paying for it...

I think they should do the same for USAID, they should contact everyone in the Org and offer them a 6 - 12 moth contract while they sort everything out... Any US contracts which were got leveraging USAID with be void and they will be resigned with EU. EUAID will be of great benefit to EU..

 

[Lesh]

This isn't about nuclear weapons. This is about a CIA planted phony government reneging on the Minsk accord. This is about the CIA turning Ukraine into a launching point for aggression against Russia. This is about Russia not just sitting there waiting for it to happen.

I didn’t think this poster was a Kremlin troll… until now

 

[martybegan]

When you make statements he is making and freezing out Ukraine you better hurry on...

Trump has shown no ability to be able to negotiate with Putin in the past...

It is pretty simple with Russians, give them nothing at the start and keep giving them nothing.. Trump is giving them the farm and trying to leverage mineral rights from Ukraine..

Yes, he might get US out of the war entirely and EU do the fighting... But what is the point of that... For relative small money, US was controlling the situation. If EU pays for the fighting, EU will be taking the spoils of war.. The war will be paid for by freezing Russian's assets, yep, there is a war going on and Russia is paying for it...

I think they should do the same for USAID, they should contact everyone in the Org and offer them a 6 - 12 moth contract while they sort everything out... Any US contracts which were got leveraging USAID with be void and they will be resigned with EU. EUAID will be of great benefit to EU..

When everyone with an agenda extrapolates from what he is actually saying, then you have our current situation.

Sorry, but I don't see funding continuing Ukrainian deaths with no chance of them winning as a good idea.

 

[Lesh]

When everyone with an agenda extrapolates from what he is actually saying, then you have our current situation.

Sorry, but I don't see funding continuing Ukrainian deaths with no chance of them winning as a good idea.

How do you know they have no chance of winning?

 

[martybegan]

How do you know they have no chance of winning?

Correlation of forces?
2+ years of stalemate after the initial war of movement concluded?
Zero loss of will on the part of the Russian government and People?

 

[Lesh]

Correlation of forces?
2+ years of stalemate after the initial war of movement concluded?
Zero loss of will on the part of the Russian government and People?

How do document their “zero loss of will..”?
Fact remains… Russia has gained nothing in a year and a half and have resorted to using NK troops.

As a nation they have little to gain. Ukraine is fighting for their LIVES

 

[martybegan]

How do document their “zero loss of will..”?
Fact remains… Russia has gained nothing in a year and a half and have resorted to using NK troops.

As a nation they have little to gain. Ukraine is fighting for their LIVES

They used a regiment as a propaganda tool.

If they were truly short of troops they would have been kicked out of Ukraine by now.

They are going for the old Soviet Empire being back, something many Russian citizens agree with.

The Poles were fighting for their lives in 1939, how did that turn out for them?

Same with the French in 1940.

And then the Germans in 1945, and the Japanese in the same year.

 

[Lesh]

They used a regiment as a propaganda tool.

If they were truly short of troops they would have been kicked out of Ukraine by now.

They are going for the old Soviet Empire being back, something many Russian citizens agree with.

The Poles were fighting for their lives in 1939, how did that turn out for them?

Same with the French in 1940.

And then the Germans in 1945, and the Japanese in the same year.

If they aren’t having issues with troop strength there would be no need for NK troops.

Did the Poles hold off Germany for two years? No. They succumbed to the initial attack. Ukraine withstood that attack.

 

[martybegan]

If they aren’t having issues with troop strength there would be no need for NK troops.

Did the Poles hold off Germany for two years? No. They succumbed to the initial attack. Ukraine withstood that attack.

If they were having real issues with troop strength Ukraine would have at least kicked them out of Donbas by now.

And 3 years later Russia still holds most of the Territory they would demand as part of an armistice.

 

[Lesh]

If they were having real issues with troop strength Ukraine would have at least kicked them out of Donbas by now.

And 3 years later Russia still holds most of the Territory they would demand as part of an armistice.

A. That’s a completely unsupported claim. If they were so strong they would have driven deep into Ukraine and taken Kyiv. They haven’t.
B. It‘s been two years not three (illustrating your lack of knowledge as to the facts here) and the fact that Russia has not been able to overcome this much smaller country speaks to their weakness

 

[martybegan]

A. That’s a completely unsupported claim. If they were so strong they would have driven deep into Ukraine and taken Kyiv. They haven’t.
B. It‘s been two years not three (illustrating your lack of knowledge as to the facts here) and the fact that Russia has not been able to overcome this much smaller country speaks to their weakness

They are strong enough to stop Ukraine from regaining their territory, and all reports from the area says Russia is increasing its holdings slowly.

part of the first year was a war of movement, I am talking about the current stalemate. Try to have an understanding of the strategic conditions before you comment on something.

Yet they hold the land they would demand in an armistice.