Should Ukraine get their Nuclear Weapons back?

[Lesh]

They are strong enough to stop Ukraine from regaining their territory, and all reports from the area says Russia is increasing its holdings slowly.

part of the first year was a war of movement, I am talking about the current stalemate. Try to have an understanding of the strategic conditions before you comment on something.

Yet they hold the land they would demand in an armistice.

None of that changes what I said.

Ukraine is holding off the Russian invaders… and will continue to as long as they get help.

You WANT them to be gobbled up by the invader.

You suck

 

[martybegan]

None of that changes what I said.

Ukraine is holding off the Russian invaders… and will continue to as long as they get help.

You WANT them to be gobbled up by the invader.

You suck

What you said is meaningless tripe.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia does as the current pace of operations.

Wanting Ukraine to win while pretending they can actually win leads to them losing far more than Trump's position and my position.

It took 2 nukes to make Japan realize they had lost, what will it take you idiots to realize Ukraine is losing and no amount of sent money or equipment will change that?

 

[marvin martian]

Thirty years ago US, Britain and Russia signed a deal with Ukraine that they will protect them in exchange for their nuclear weapons.

Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994. Now it's asking why

It's 30 years since Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal. Some now question why they did.

www.bbc.com

This is an agreement US and UK went into because a poor country like Ukraine having these weapons could be unsecure and evetually end up in a bad actors hands( North Korea, Al Queda, Iran....)...

It was the US that was pushing the deal... US wanted that security for itself as they predicted that they would be the main aim of those bad actors... There was no metion or expectation of Ukraine joining or not join EU or NATO.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So Russia then decides to invade Ukraine in 2014... The US and EU knowing their obligations to the deal sanctioned Ukraine, then Russia invaded Crimea, the sanctions increased and US/EU started to arm and train Ukraine to better protect themselves ....

Russia then went for the whole country. Ukraine repealed them and a three year war started...

Now Trump wants to renege on the whole deal, he is basically saying that Ukraine were fools to sign a deal with America because US doesn't honour deals any more...
As with any deal, if you back up, you have to give them there nuclear weapons back...

US loosing trust in the world severely weakens its globally standing. Hard to do business if there is no trust.
US got what they wanted and Ukraine can basically goto hell..

Did you ever imagine you'd end up on the internet simping for endless war that killed millions of innocents?

 

[Lesh]

What you said is meaningless tripe.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia does as the current pace of operations.

Wanting Ukraine to win while pretending they can actually win leads to them losing far more than Trump's position and my position.

It took 2 nukes to make Japan realize they had lost, what will it take you idiots to realize Ukraine is losing and no amount of sent money or equipment will change that?

Repeating ourselves and talking past each other serves no purpose.

Just admit that you want Russia to win

 

[marvin martian]

None of that changes what I said.

Ukraine is holding off the Russian invaders… and will continue to as long as they get help.

You WANT them to be gobbled up by the invader.

You suck

Did you ever imagine you'd end up on the internet simping for endless wars that kill millions of innocents?

You probably still call yourself an "anti-authoritarian".

 

[martybegan]

Repeating ourselves and talking past each other serves no purpose.

Just admit that you want Russia to win

No, I want Ukraine to win, but they can't.

Letting Russia wear them down after 5 years would give them the confidence to go after the Stans and the Baltics.

 

[Missourian]

Russia meddles in other countries affairs... it have invaded a few and Putin has stated that he wants to reunify USSR...

We meddle in the affairs of other countries and we have invaded a few.

We are still fighting the Cold War with Russia.

We meddled in Ukraine to overthrow the democratically elected government.

We invaded Iraq. Not for weapons of mass destruction. But for gas pipelines to undercut Russia.

That's why Obama was so involved in Syria as well.

A lot of war to get a gas pipeline from Saudi Arabia and Qatar to Europe.


The Qatar-Turkey Gas Pipeline was a proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from Qatar's South Pars/North Dome Gas-Condensate field towards Turkey, where it could connect with the Nabucco pipeline to supply European customers as well as Turkey The pipeline was first proposed in 2009 and was designed to transport gas from Qatar through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria, or alternatively through Saud… Qatar Gas Pipeline

 

[Missourian]

That is why Putin is afraid... Russians could ask why are they poor in queues for food when rest of Europe is wealthier..

Here's the problem Ted.

You claim Russia wants to take over the world.

I've said Russia wants to keep their warm water port at Sevastopol in Crimea. It's existential that Russia has warm water ports. This is one of only two. So they took Crimea in 2014.

And Ukraine turned off the fresh water. This is understandable. But it was also the escalation that led to the current war.

But everything that followed was a result of the Orange Revolution in 2003-04 and The Revolution of Dignity 2013-14...and there is little doubt the US had a hand in this, after President Yanukovych torpedoed the Pro-EU trade deal.

It was also under Yanukovych in 2013 that the extension of Russia's lease of Sevastopol Port was extended.

And who was pumping the money that fueled the protests? None other than USAID.





Now you tell me. Does this look like an invasion targeting Keiv?

Or does it look like a securement of fresh water for Crimea?

Interactive Map: Russia's Invasion of Ukraine

This interactive map complements the static control-of-terrain maps that ISW daily produces with high-fidelity.

storymaps.arcgis.com

If your premise is faulty... Logically it follows your conclusion is faulty.

 

[justoffal]

Yep...

The other Eastern European Countries were probably happy to keep Russia out...

Russia meddles in other countries affairs... it have invaded a few and Putin has stated that he wants to reunify USSR...
Lets make this crystal fucking clear... A majority in these countries can run away from Russia fast enough...

The countries closer to Europe want to join EU, this gives them access to a wealthy market and significantly increases the quality of life of their people.
Putin fucking hates this... How can you have Poland which joined EU with half the GDP per Captia of Russia, now have double the GDP per Captia...
People in Russia are going to start asking where their money is gone? Putin knows this, EU is a bigger threat to him than NATO.
This is the unsaid thing... EU expansion into eastern europe is Putin's main fear... Ukraine would have done really well in EU... Moldova and Albania have requests in...
Orban is feeling it in the polls and EU is cutting him off until he puts in reforms...

With Hungry comback to EU Social Democracy... Look at the map... Georgia wants in and Belarus would be the last one to drop and he is living on borrowed time...

UK is just trying to figure out haw they can come back with dignity... In the polls they know it was a huge mistake...

That is why Putin is afraid... Russians could ask why are they poor in queues for food when rest of Europe is wealthier..

They never owned any..... Nuclear weapons positioned in Ukraine prior to the Minsk accords all belonged to Russia in the first place. Why do people keep speaking as if Ukraine ever produced or actually owned any nuclear weapons?